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See all these complaints about upping units. Just beat c5 sewers no walls


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@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

cannon balls pdts flammers. no anti air or sand traps. yea i was on the abby. touch and go one time on 5th wave i lost a few towers.

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@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

So this post made me want to try beating C5 sewer map without blockades, and also without any of the towers - or dps hero, mentioned in the quoted post above. It was actually fun and challenging even though I did succeed in first try. 

I used the following towers:

Frosties w. empowered frostbite and frosty duet + deadly strikes for longer range.

Oil geysers w. stun shard, and deadly strikes. 

Ramsters w. defense rate + destruction and deadly strikes.

Sky guard towers w. vampiric destruction and deadly strikes.

Assassin plan: One frosty + sky guard nearby.


Hero: Mystic. Weapon: Oathkeeper light, 4S, 3Projectiles Shards: Lightning touch + Burning strikes.


I used the frosties as makeshift walls and placed them right in the lane 3 each beside eachother so nothing could sneak by. I had about 500K health in them so they could take a hit or two, but not much more. 

The ork ladies were probably the hardest thing because they pretty much ignore oil geysers and frosty beams and run straight up and start bashing away, so I had to be on my toes and target them with ranged fire as soon as I spotted them. 

The siege tanks were not a problem as they were slowed to a halt on top of the first oil geyser and pretty much stayed there untill I had time to come and take care of it.




Well done bro. i did it with cannon balls pdts and flammers no frosties or any sorta cc other then cannon ball hev stun. But nice job.


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Err mistake posted above

i used Fisures of emberment pdts canonballs.

none of my pdt or cannon balls had over 150k health if that helps so i was not using them for blockades over lanes. only cc was hev cannon ball

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So I also went and tested this no wall build I used only pdt and sand traps(overkilled with the sand traps :'D) and 2 skyguards and I won c5 nimbus reach without dps'ing any mobs I only killed the bosses because .. bosses..rollers... skellies.., funny thing is it was more thorough then my normal build. This might even be a good public carrier build, but might add small walls.


edit: sorry forgot to mention I did not upgraded or repair anything.

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@Swampdonkey quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

So this post made me want to try beating C5 sewer map without blockades, and also without any of the towers - or dps hero, mentioned in the quoted post above. It was actually fun and challenging even though I did succeed in first try. 

I used the following towers:

Frosties w. empowered frostbite and frosty duet + deadly strikes for longer range.

Oil geysers w. stun shard, and deadly strikes. 

Ramsters w. defense rate + destruction and deadly strikes.

Sky guard towers w. vampiric destruction and deadly strikes.

Assassin plan: One frosty + sky guard nearby.


Hero: Mystic. Weapon: Oathkeeper light, 4S, 3Projectiles Shards: Lightning touch + Burning strikes.


I used the frosties as makeshift walls and placed them right in the lane 3 each beside eachother so nothing could sneak by. I had about 500K health in them so they could take a hit or two, but not much more. 

The ork ladies were probably the hardest thing because they pretty much ignore oil geysers and frosty beams and run straight up and start bashing away, so I had to be on my toes and target them with ranged fire as soon as I spotted them. 

The siege tanks were not a problem as they were slowed to a halt on top of the first oil geyser and pretty much stayed there untill I had time to come and take care of it.




Well done bro. i did it with cannon balls pdts and flammers no frosties or any sorta cc other then cannon ball hev stun. But nice job.


Ok I updated my challege. Now my rules are - Sewers C5 in following manner:


-NO Blockades (not even makeshift ones)

-NO CC (Sand traps, Oil geysers, Frosties, Proton beams slow, Cannonball stun etc.) Only allowed CC is Skyguard slow, because it can´t be removed.

-NO PDT´s

-NO Flamethrowers

-NO Abyss Lord DPS

-NO Assassin plan ( ha ha that was fun)


I did this using only Ramsters and Skyguards.

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Can you add no pet?

Emoji_JavThrower.png

@MaJean quote:


@Swampdonkey quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

So this post made me want to try beating C5 sewer map without blockades, and also without any of the towers - or dps hero, mentioned in the quoted post above. It was actually fun and challenging even though I did succeed in first try. 

I used the following towers:

Frosties w. empowered frostbite and frosty duet + deadly strikes for longer range.

Oil geysers w. stun shard, and deadly strikes. 

Ramsters w. defense rate + destruction and deadly strikes.

Sky guard towers w. vampiric destruction and deadly strikes.

Assassin plan: One frosty + sky guard nearby.


Hero: Mystic. Weapon: Oathkeeper light, 4S, 3Projectiles Shards: Lightning touch + Burning strikes.


I used the frosties as makeshift walls and placed them right in the lane 3 each beside eachother so nothing could sneak by. I had about 500K health in them so they could take a hit or two, but not much more. 

The ork ladies were probably the hardest thing because they pretty much ignore oil geysers and frosty beams and run straight up and start bashing away, so I had to be on my toes and target them with ranged fire as soon as I spotted them. 

The siege tanks were not a problem as they were slowed to a halt on top of the first oil geyser and pretty much stayed there untill I had time to come and take care of it.




Well done bro. i did it with cannon balls pdts and flammers no frosties or any sorta cc other then cannon ball hev stun. But nice job.


Ok I updated my challege. Now my rules are - Sewers C5 in following manner:


-NO Blockades (not even makeshift ones)

-NO CC (Sand traps, Oil geysers, Frosties, Proton beams slow, Cannonball stun etc.) Only allowed CC is Skyguard slow, because it can´t be removed.

-NO PDT´s

-NO Flamethrowers

-NO Abyss Lord DPS

-NO Assassin plan ( ha ha that was fun)


I did this using only Ramsters and Skyguards.


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The current divide between those that have C5 and/or huge ascension and likely used frosty instakill whilst it was viable, and those trying to break into C5.

Bla bla it's all easy I can do this with my full C5 gear and shards. Doesn't prove anything if you don't test like for like.

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@Exo dus quote:

Can you add no pet?

Emoji_JavThrower.png

@MaJean quote:


@Swampdonkey quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

So this post made me want to try beating C5 sewer map without blockades, and also without any of the towers - or dps hero, mentioned in the quoted post above. It was actually fun and challenging even though I did succeed in first try. 

I used the following towers:

Frosties w. empowered frostbite and frosty duet + deadly strikes for longer range.

Oil geysers w. stun shard, and deadly strikes. 

Ramsters w. defense rate + destruction and deadly strikes.

Sky guard towers w. vampiric destruction and deadly strikes.

Assassin plan: One frosty + sky guard nearby.


Hero: Mystic. Weapon: Oathkeeper light, 4S, 3Projectiles Shards: Lightning touch + Burning strikes.


I used the frosties as makeshift walls and placed them right in the lane 3 each beside eachother so nothing could sneak by. I had about 500K health in them so they could take a hit or two, but not much more. 

The ork ladies were probably the hardest thing because they pretty much ignore oil geysers and frosty beams and run straight up and start bashing away, so I had to be on my toes and target them with ranged fire as soon as I spotted them. 

The siege tanks were not a problem as they were slowed to a halt on top of the first oil geyser and pretty much stayed there untill I had time to come and take care of it.




Well done bro. i did it with cannon balls pdts and flammers no frosties or any sorta cc other then cannon ball hev stun. But nice job.


Ok I updated my challege. Now my rules are - Sewers C5 in following manner:


-NO Blockades (not even makeshift ones)

-NO CC (Sand traps, Oil geysers, Frosties, Proton beams slow, Cannonball stun etc.) Only allowed CC is Skyguard slow, because it can´t be removed.

-NO PDT´s

-NO Flamethrowers

-NO Abyss Lord DPS

-NO Assassin plan ( ha ha that was fun)


I did this using only Ramsters and Skyguards.


No pet! There! I had a pet equipped but didn´t use any abilities, the pet shoots for what? 3K dps? The 330 something points of extra dmg+crit is negligible. 

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@MaJean quote:


@Swampdonkey quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

So this post made me want to try beating C5 sewer map without blockades, and also without any of the towers - or dps hero, mentioned in the quoted post above. It was actually fun and challenging even though I did succeed in first try. 

I used the following towers:

Frosties w. empowered frostbite and frosty duet + deadly strikes for longer range.

Oil geysers w. stun shard, and deadly strikes. 

Ramsters w. defense rate + destruction and deadly strikes.

Sky guard towers w. vampiric destruction and deadly strikes.

Assassin plan: One frosty + sky guard nearby.


Hero: Mystic. Weapon: Oathkeeper light, 4S, 3Projectiles Shards: Lightning touch + Burning strikes.


I used the frosties as makeshift walls and placed them right in the lane 3 each beside eachother so nothing could sneak by. I had about 500K health in them so they could take a hit or two, but not much more. 

The ork ladies were probably the hardest thing because they pretty much ignore oil geysers and frosty beams and run straight up and start bashing away, so I had to be on my toes and target them with ranged fire as soon as I spotted them. 

The siege tanks were not a problem as they were slowed to a halt on top of the first oil geyser and pretty much stayed there untill I had time to come and take care of it.




Well done bro. i did it with cannon balls pdts and flammers no frosties or any sorta cc other then cannon ball hev stun. But nice job.


Ok I updated my challege. Now my rules are - Sewers C5 in following manner:


-NO Blockades (not even makeshift ones)

-NO CC (Sand traps, Oil geysers, Frosties, Proton beams slow, Cannonball stun etc.) Only allowed CC is Skyguard slow, because it can´t be removed.

-NO PDT´s

-NO Flamethrowers

-NO Abyss Lord DPS

-NO Assassin plan ( ha ha that was fun)


I did this using only Ramsters and Skyguards.

Okay tried your awesome but very stressful challenge on sewers.
I used squire with fight me not to finish the assassins with towers, no good pet ability sadly this is why I asked.
I had 4 ramsters per lane and the 2 skyguards. The bosses were the big problems the roller was greatest fear.
My ramsters have orb relic.

...and I won <3

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@Exo dus quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Swampdonkey quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I can almost predict the towers you used: 

  • Sand Traps 100%
  • PDTs 100%
  • Flamethrowers 70%
  • Player DPS most likely Abyss Lord.

Beating a map without walls is more about some towers being to strong or costing to little DU rather then anything to do with the DU debate. I happen to agree with you regarding DU limits being fine, but beating C5 without walls is not a good example of why DU limits are fine.

Farming C5 with gear and with meta is very different to progressing into C5 without the shards or the gear you need. I would say that part of the game was the hardest assuming you didn't have an Abyss Lord or Freeze shard for frosties.

The debate regarding DU limits should be made theoretically and strategically, what combo of CC, defense and offense towers can work together, and rather then increasing DU limits with some combo's being weak buffs to those combo's should be made while nerfs to the low DU builds should be made.

So this post made me want to try beating C5 sewer map without blockades, and also without any of the towers - or dps hero, mentioned in the quoted post above. It was actually fun and challenging even though I did succeed in first try. 

I used the following towers:

Frosties w. empowered frostbite and frosty duet + deadly strikes for longer range.

Oil geysers w. stun shard, and deadly strikes. 

Ramsters w. defense rate + destruction and deadly strikes.

Sky guard towers w. vampiric destruction and deadly strikes.

Assassin plan: One frosty + sky guard nearby.


Hero: Mystic. Weapon: Oathkeeper light, 4S, 3Projectiles Shards: Lightning touch + Burning strikes.


I used the frosties as makeshift walls and placed them right in the lane 3 each beside eachother so nothing could sneak by. I had about 500K health in them so they could take a hit or two, but not much more. 

The ork ladies were probably the hardest thing because they pretty much ignore oil geysers and frosty beams and run straight up and start bashing away, so I had to be on my toes and target them with ranged fire as soon as I spotted them. 

The siege tanks were not a problem as they were slowed to a halt on top of the first oil geyser and pretty much stayed there untill I had time to come and take care of it.




Well done bro. i did it with cannon balls pdts and flammers no frosties or any sorta cc other then cannon ball hev stun. But nice job.


Ok I updated my challege. Now my rules are - Sewers C5 in following manner:


-NO Blockades (not even makeshift ones)

-NO CC (Sand traps, Oil geysers, Frosties, Proton beams slow, Cannonball stun etc.) Only allowed CC is Skyguard slow, because it can´t be removed.

-NO PDT´s

-NO Flamethrowers

-NO Abyss Lord DPS

-NO Assassin plan ( ha ha that was fun)


I did this using only Ramsters and Skyguards.

Okay tried your awesome but very stressful challenge on sewers.
I used squire with fight me not to finish the assassins with towers, no good pet ability sadly this is why I asked.
I had 4 ramsters per lane and the 2 skyguards. The bosses were the big problems the roller was greatest fear.
My ramsters have orb relic.

...and I won <3

Ha ha yes it was a bit stressful for me too:) Good job, you are a serious contender;)

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@Fozzie quote:

The current divide between those that have C5 and/or huge ascension and likely used frosty instakill whilst it was viable, and those trying to break into C5.

Bla bla it's all easy I can do this with my full C5 gear and shards. Doesn't prove anything if you don't test like for like.

Let me tell you a story about frosty insta kill.

#1 C5 is way easier now without geodes and vanguards than it was before even with frosty insta kill. 

#2 I successfully beat C5 littlehorn for the first time long before i got the freeze shard using mostly water geysers and skyguards for anti assassin.

#3 If you want to blame anything blame AP Abyss lord for being ezmode which everyone still has access to.

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@The Jason Order quote:

What exactly is hard about beating c5 with c5 gear? You vastly overgear the content. C5 was a challenge with c4 gear. If you already have c5 gear, it can't be hard, or it would be impossible to progress. I'm with NeedtoDie and Tiamata on this, c5 with c5 gear and any decent amount of Ascension is a joke.

I can do c5 with just 1 pdt pointed at each spawn, and one at some point further down the lane. It doesn't mean anything.


Who said anything about it being hard beating it with C5 gear? It´s not. That´s why people challenge themselves with "No wall" challenges etc..... 


@Fozzie quote:

The current divide between those that have C5 and/or huge ascension and likely used frosty instakill whilst it was viable, and those trying to break into C5.

Bla bla it's all easy I can do this with my full C5 gear and shards. Doesn't prove anything if you don't test like for like.

Negative outburst?

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@MaJean quote:


@The Jason Order quote:

What exactly is hard about beating c5 with c5 gear? You vastly overgear the content. C5 was a challenge with c4 gear. If you already have c5 gear, it can't be hard, or it would be impossible to progress. I'm with NeedtoDie and Tiamata on this, c5 with c5 gear and any decent amount of Ascension is a joke.

I can do c5 with just 1 pdt pointed at each spawn, and one at some point further down the lane. It doesn't mean anything.


Who said anything about it being hard beating it with C5 gear? It´s not. That´s why people challenge themselves with "No wall" challenges etc..... 


The topic creator's argument is that DU limits don't need to be upped because he was able to beat it even without barricades.


Such an argument is rendered moot if he did it while wearing C5 gear.  As pretty much anyone who has it can tell you, C5 gear is insanely overpowered compared to C5 itself (it kinda has to be because C5 is balanced for C4 gear.  Balancing something around gear you get from doing that something in the first place would be stupid).

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@Tiamata quote:


@MaJean quote:


@The Jason Order quote:

What exactly is hard about beating c5 with c5 gear? You vastly overgear the content. C5 was a challenge with c4 gear. If you already have c5 gear, it can't be hard, or it would be impossible to progress. I'm with NeedtoDie and Tiamata on this, c5 with c5 gear and any decent amount of Ascension is a joke.

I can do c5 with just 1 pdt pointed at each spawn, and one at some point further down the lane. It doesn't mean anything.


Who said anything about it being hard beating it with C5 gear? It´s not. That´s why people challenge themselves with "No wall" challenges etc..... 


The topic creator's argument is that DU limits don't need to be upped because he was able to beat it even without barricades.


Such an argument is rendered moot if he did it while wearing C5 gear.  As pretty much anyone who has it can tell you, C5 gear is insanely overpowered compared to C5 itself (it kinda has to be because C5 is balanced for C4 gear.  Balancing something around gear you get from doing that something in the first place would be stupid).

No such arguments were made. Read his post again. He worked his ass off to break into C5. He should have chosen a better suiting headline for his text though.

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@MaJean quote:

No such arguments were made. Read his post again. 

He has edited the OP.  Unfortunately no one seems to have quoted the original in its entirety.

However he did make similar posts in these two threads.  I will reproduce them here, just in case:

Du unit is fine.

Its your gear or your build.

Watch a few streams and you will start to understand.

Alot of the main streamers have du left over all the time at the end of a build. Whats that tell you?

They have the gear to support there build and you don t. means stay in the lower tier till you get the gear you need and learn to build better.

Just beat c5 sewers with no walls at all........ Its not the game its you

There is no problem with the du limit on maps. your off your head. 

If you can t compete then your doing it wrong.

undergeared poor build.

Just beat chaos 5 with no walls at all. Its the things listed above. Watch a few streams is what i did. I had the same complaints as this post. its not the game its you full stop.

(If text colors end up funny, it's the awful wysiwyg editor on these forums.)

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@tdb quote:
@MaJean quote:

No such arguments were made. Read his post again. 

He has edited the OP.  Unfortunately no one seems to have quoted the original in its entirety.

However he did make similar posts in these two threads.  I will reproduce them here, just in case:

Du unit is fine.

Its your gear or your build.

Watch a few streams and you will start to understand.

Alot of the main streamers have du left over all the time at the end of a build. Whats that tell you?

They have the gear to support there build and you don t. means stay in the lower tier till you get the gear you need and learn to build better.

Just beat c5 sewers with no walls at all........ Its not the game its you

There is no problem with the du limit on maps. your off your head. 

If you can t compete then your doing it wrong.

undergeared poor build.

Just beat chaos 5 with no walls at all. Its the things listed above. Watch a few streams is what i did. I had the same complaints as this post. its not the game its you full stop.

(If text colors end up funny, it's the awful wysiwyg editor on these forums.)

Ok.

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Yep, this thread's original premise  has been debunked but apparently the topic creator can't admit it so instead of gracefully saying that, he tried to cover the evidence by editting the OP.  He couldn't edit his header though so he can't cover that up.



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you guys are all forgetting about the shards as well. While some here argue about alternative "fun" builds to beat c5 "easily and without walls" which include up to 4 deadly strike shards, there are people (luckily not me) which are at 200+ ascension levels just from farming c1 without ever getting one.

same goes for the vampiric empowerment + rate shards, which are even more important in c5.

but i guess those people need to watch some video guides from people who have full c5 gear and all possible shards and git gud.

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@Escapism quote:

you guys are all forgetting about the shards as well. While some here argue about alternative "fun" builds to beat c5 "easily and without walls" which include up to 4 deadly strike shards, there are people (luckily not me) which are at 200+ ascension levels just from farming c1 without ever getting one.

same goes for the vampiric empowerment + rate shards, which are even more important in c5.

but i guess those people need to watch some video guides from people who have full c5 gear and all possible shards and git gud.

I was regularly farming in C5 pre-nerf, without the frosty shard for assassin killing, zero range/rate/vamp shards with sub 100 levels.  It really comes down to smart building then luck on getting decent drops.  

At first, I was plowing through C4, but getting destroyed in C5.  I was calling for a nerf on assassins and all that jazz and was really angry at the game because I was "gud and easily doing C4...why can't I break into C5?!?!"  Then I really looked at my setup.  I was at 20k health and not using a good build setup (even when I thought I was at the time), then wondering why I was just dead all the time.  I broke down and started using a CC and slows in my build.  I went back and farmed C4 for decent DPS gear for my Hero.  Low and Behold, with the basic shards (I did get lucky with a wall stun shard) and a decent build/DPS, I was actually able to reliably do C5.  

The secret that everyone is trying to tell others?  CC/Slows are really that good.  Snaking sands, frosty Towers, Cannonball with stun shards, they're really really really good in the beginning of C5.  Stuns work wonders for Assassins too!  Stand within range of a Skyguard tower, or two, and stun an assassin.  See what happens to those poor souls.  I picked up a weapon with storm damage on it.  Put on 'Drenching Strikes' shard and went to town on stuns.

Another "secret", if you build/upgrade your frosties, they will make things move at 9% movement speed.  Do you know how fast a roller goes when it's at 9% movement speed?  You can pretty much ignore him until everything on the map is dead.  So, I made sure the lanes with bosses coming in them had a maxed out frosty tower a bit away from the walls and in my "kill box".  I used relics with Power, Speed, Health.  The crit was minimal and I needed the health.  After every wave, I'd look at my build.  If my towers died, they were in a bad position.  If they were a bit damaged, then I knew an AI went haywire and targeted my tower (not the build's fault, the AI can go full retard sometimes).  Clearing C5 waves gave me blues and ascension.  Not great, but every bit helped.  Eventually, you'll get the gear and shards, but you'll always be gaining levels regardless.  No matter how bad my luck was/is, I always got levels and that helps.  With Gear/shards/ascension, you're just able to play looser and sloppier. 

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@Escapism quote:

you guys are all forgetting about the shards as well. While some here argue about alternative "fun" builds to beat c5 "easily and without walls" which include up to 4 deadly strike shards, there are people (luckily not me) which are at 200+ ascension levels just from farming c1 without ever getting one.

same goes for the vampiric empowerment + rate shards, which are even more important in c5.

but i guess those people need to watch some video guides from people who have full c5 gear and all possible shards and git gud.

Just wanna say theres no need for some people to just farm c1 like a no-lifer just cause they do not have a shard that drops in c1 for example= range shards. Think the better way to go ahead is to just farm the chaos what your gear makes you capable of farming and those shards will slowly come to you while you are not looking for them. 

When I first got into c5, I had no range shards no rate shards, had vamp though, and no real good knowledge of the meta, as my motto is always just try and get there yourself and when you're there check what other people do. 
My way of getting into c5 was ramsters maws and a star of proton beams(with freeze) to take care of assassins. 

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