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Do any range gambits work right now?


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PDT - SGT- LSA - Dryad towers - Cannon ball - Snake sand - volcano - obelisk

Those work pretty good.

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@soda_taffy quote:

Thanks. That reminds me, does a gambit increase the trigger range on a trap or just the AOE?

Just the aoe. Trigger ranges are tiny.

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@Pegazul quote:

PDT - SGT- LSA - Dryad towers - Cannon ball - Snake sand - volcano - obelisk

Those work pretty good.

Flame aura, fissure

In fact they all work as far as i have tested. But it depends on base range (stast i mean not actual range). Everything above 6K base is probably not worth wasting point (and losing DP). Between 4K and 6k it's debatable. Under 4K it's always worth it IMHO.

And a must for anything under 2.5K

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@nomad19 quote:

Doesn't work for crap on ramster

It technically works, but the returns on it are terrible, only a 6% increase for all 50 points dumped into the gambit.

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Like the speed stat, the range gambits are weird. Hom-SB did a post on defenses that covered this and is worth reading here. The scaling Hom talks about makes some of the gambits really not worth it (Ramster in particular) as some of them don't get the range you would think. May be a bug.

Some though work wonders - full gambit + Deadly Strikes on a fissure will cover an area equal to almost 14 normal fissures. That is totally worth a 10% DP loss, though they are limited to only hitting 8 units at a time (like the flame aura - honestly, this restriction is artificial and kind of lame). Snaking Sands too is great - you get over 4x the radius (so over 16x the area coverage) and most of the damage comes from DCD anyway. The trigger range is still small, but on C5 you can bait one and the assassins will keep setting them off and stun half the screen.

PDTs though - I don't know if the gambit is worth it here. You want them to keep shooting at different units each shot so they poison as many as possible, so you can usually put them somewhere to the side where they attack the flank and the bad guys just march on by them. You can even put them really close to where they walk by, and often times be inside a geode shield so they still attack.  Though maybe for flying kobold bombers the range would help?

I like the idea of the gambits, but as is they are weird and inconsistent. They probably should increase range by X% percent and decrease damage for both DP and DCD by the same amount to keep it simple and understandable and consistent.

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I am a part of the vast group of people whom Ramster trolled hard into a respec decision xD

SGTs are the only thing I have gambit on so far, haven't needed range on anything else I use so far, and still no range shard to be found either xD

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@geo981010 quote:

Like the speed stat, the range gambits are weird. Hom-SB did a post on defenses that covered this and is worth reading here. The scaling Hom talks about makes some of the gambits really not worth it (Ramster in particular) as some of them don't get the range you would think. May be a bug.

Some though work wonders - full gambit + Deadly Strikes on a fissure will cover an area equal to almost 14 normal fissures. That is totally worth a 10% DP loss, though they are limited to only hitting 8 units at a time (like the flame aura - honestly, this restriction is artificial and kind of lame). Snaking Sands too is great - you get over 4x the radius (so over 16x the area coverage) and most of the damage comes from DCD anyway. The trigger range is still small, but on C5 you can bait one and the assassins will keep setting them off and stun half the screen.

PDTs though - I don't know if the gambit is worth it here. You want them to keep shooting at different units each shot so they poison as many as possible, so you can usually put them somewhere to the side where they attack the flank and the bad guys just march on by them. You can even put them really close to where they walk by, and often times be inside a geode shield so they still attack.  Though maybe for flying kobold bombers the range would help?

I like the idea of the gambits, but as is they are weird and inconsistent. They probably should increase range by X% percent and decrease damage for both DP and DCD by the same amount to keep it simple and understandable and consistent.

The ratio actually doesn't help at all choosing whether or not gambit is worth it.

So the whole topic, while definitely VERY interesting, doesn't help having a  quick answer to the 'should i choose gambit' question

Here are theorical example :

Gambit on a tower with 1500 range stats and 1:10 ratio sounds horrid but is actually +100% range. Probably a must.

Gambit on a tower with 10000 range stats and 1:1 ratio sounds good but is actually +15% range. Real low and worthless unless the tower have a very specific use where range is VERY important and base damage irrelevant (sand come to mind)

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@Talis Cat quote:


The ratio actually doesn't help at all choosing whether or not gambit is worth it.

So the whole topic, while definitely VERY interesting, doesn't help having a  quick answer to the 'should i choose gambit' question

Here are theorical example :

Gambit on a tower with 1500 range stats and 1:10 ratio sounds horrid but is actually +100% range. Probably a must.

Gambit on a tower with 10000 range stats and 1:1 ratio sounds good but is actually +15% range. Real low and worthless unless the tower have a very specific use where range is VERY important and base damage irrelevant (sand come to mind)

Sorry - I was possibly not being clear on what ratio I meant.

The ratio I was referring to was the internal hidden ratio that scales the defense range to actual in game range that Hom brought up. I was unaware before his post, and it most definitely is helpful and will save you from dumping points into certain gambits that will not work as well as you think. Basically this is why the ramster gambit stinks - the ratio is 10:1, so instead of gaining 1500 range which would be great it instead only gains 150 which is horrible. You lose the full 1.5k DP, but the range goes from 2500 to 2650 which is barely noticeable.

The ramster is the worst ratio there, but the flame aura and flamethrower also get smaller bonuses than you would expect. They may still want the gambits if you have enough DP and yeah that is complicated, but the ramster has a quick answer to the 'should I choose gambit' question. The answer is "Hell No!" :)


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@Talis Cat quote:
@geo981010 quote:


The ratio actually doesn't help at all choosing whether or not gambit is worth it.

So the whole topic, while definitely VERY interesting, doesn't help having a  quick answer to the 'should i choose gambit' question

Here are theorical example :

Gambit on a tower with 1500 range stats and 1:10 ratio sounds horrid but is actually +100% range. Probably a must.

Gambit on a tower with 10000 range stats and 1:1 ratio sounds good but is actually +15% range. Real low and worthless unless the tower have a very specific use where range is VERY important and base damage irrelevant (sand come to mind)

That's not how the scalar works. If a tower has 1:10 scaling, the 1,500 range that the gambit gives would become 150 effective range.

Since the tower had 1,500 to begin with, it'd now have 1,650. That's a 10% increase, not a 100% increase. The scalar is very much important in determining whether it's worth it or not.

The gambit would be more worth it on that hypothetical 10,000 range 1:1 tower than your hypothetical 1,500 tower. I mean, it wouldn't actually be worth it on either (unless DP is irrelevant), but if you had to pick one it'd be 10k range tower.

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@calmchaos quote:
@Talis Cat quote:
@geo981010 quote:


The ratio actually doesn't help at all choosing whether or not gambit is worth it.

So the whole topic, while definitely VERY interesting, doesn't help having a  quick answer to the 'should i choose gambit' question

Here are theorical example :

Gambit on a tower with 1500 range stats and 1:10 ratio sounds horrid but is actually +100% range. Probably a must.

Gambit on a tower with 10000 range stats and 1:1 ratio sounds good but is actually +15% range. Real low and worthless unless the tower have a very specific use where range is VERY important and base damage irrelevant (sand come to mind)

That's not how the scalar works. If a tower has 1:10 scaling, the 1,500 range that the gambit gives would become 150 effective range.

Since the tower had 1,500 to begin with, it'd now have 1,650. That's a 10% increase, not a 100% increase. The scalar is very much important in determining whether it's worth it or not.

The gambit would be more worth it on that hypothetical 10,000 range 1:1 tower than your hypothetical 1,500 tower. I mean, it wouldn't actually be worth it on either (unless DP is irrelevant), but if you had to pick one it'd be 10k range tower.

I speak of stats not actual range. The one you can check in inventory screen

the one mentionned in this https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/143193/range-tooltip-vs-real-range topic

1500 stats with 1:10 ratio mean 150 range. Gambit always give 1500 and though double that.

I can't think of a tower that would'nt benefit from doubling range. Even with poison it would allow a lot more flexibility in its use

That's why trap benefit a lot more from gambit that cannon even if they both have 1:1 ratio

On top of that trap/aura tower, which often have the smallest range, benefit even more since the ground covered gain is not linear (Good old πR² is a trap lover friend)

On the other hand the 10K stats giving 10K range mean gambit would only raise it to 11500. A flat cool bonus but relative range wise, it's not really worth losing 1500DP

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@geo981010 quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


The ratio actually doesn't help at all choosing whether or not gambit is worth it.

So the whole topic, while definitely VERY interesting, doesn't help having a  quick answer to the 'should i choose gambit' question

Here are theorical example :

Gambit on a tower with 1500 range stats and 1:10 ratio sounds horrid but is actually +100% range. Probably a must.

Gambit on a tower with 10000 range stats and 1:1 ratio sounds good but is actually +15% range. Real low and worthless unless the tower have a very specific use where range is VERY important and base damage irrelevant (sand come to mind)

Sorry - I was possibly not being clear on what ratio I meant.

The ratio I was referring to was the internal hidden ratio that scales the defense range to actual in game range that Hom brought up. I was unaware before his post, and it most definitely is helpful and will save you from dumping points into certain gambits that will not work as well as you think. Basically this is why the ramster gambit stinks - the ratio is 10:1, so instead of gaining 1500 range which would be great it instead only gains 150 which is horrible. You lose the full 1.5k DP, but the range goes from 2500 to 2650 which is barely noticeable.

The ramster is the worst ratio there, but the flame aura and flamethrower also get smaller bonuses than you would expect. They may still want the gambits if you have enough DP and yeah that is complicated, but the ramster has a quick answer to the 'should I choose gambit' question. The answer is "Hell No!" :)


Sorry for double posting didn't find how to edit and quote :/

The idea of just checking range STATS (the one you see in inventory) is you don't need to ask anyone (or check forum) about said ratio, you can see it by yourself

If you have a 25000 range STATS like ramster you can immediatly see that the 1500 bonus will definitely be worthless.

If you see 200, like explosive, you'll know you will cover a LOT more ground with gambit

I just wanted to point him to an easy to use solution, so he can decide by himself

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@Talis Cat quote:
@calmchaos quote:
@Talis Cat quote:
@geo981010 quote:


I speak of stats not actual range. The one you can check in inventory screen

the one mentionned in this https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/143193/range-tooltip-vs-real-range topic

1500 stats with 1:10 ratio mean 150 range. Gambit always give 1500 and though double that.

I can't think of a tower that would'nt benefit from doubling range. Even with poison it would allow a lot more flexibility in its use

That's why trap benefit a lot more from gambit that cannon even if they both have 1:1 ratio

On top of that trap/aura tower, which often have the smallest range, benefit even more since the ground covered gain is not linear (Good old πR² is a trap lover friend)

On the other hand the 10K stats giving 10K range mean gambit would only raise it to 11500. A flat cool bonus but relative range wise, it's not really worth losing 1500DP

Ah, my bad. I thought your example was using actual range values.

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