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[Problem] Review of hero viability in the end game


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Blaze Balloons sucks. They have the worst upgrade scaling, and they have the worst defense speed scaling. They have overpriced DU cost. They are disabled by EMP Orcs. And their shards suck.

Igniting an enemy oiled by Oily Harpoon does 600% of DP every second for 5 seconds. Blazing Phoenix does 550% of DP once every 10 seconds.

That's the only Blaze Balloon shard I can find on any list anywhere.

Maybe they thought Defense Critical Damage, Defense Critical Strike, and Defense Rate were all replacements for Phoenix Flame, Phoenix's Luck, and Victory Smell.

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If there's one thing I've learned in this topic it's that a lot of people say things sucks while others make it work. Maybe you should experiment a bit more before you pass judgement?

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@JudgeM quote:

If there's one thing I've learned in this topic it's that a lot of people say things sucks while others make it work. Maybe you should experiment a bit more before you pass judgement?

^

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@JudgeM quote:

If there's one thing I've learned in this topic it's that a lot of people say things sucks while others make it work. Maybe you should experiment a bit more before you pass judgement?

Absolutely this. Just because you can't win with something doesn't mean it's trash.
Since the current patch, pretty much all heroes are viable, even on Chaos 5.

Also, thread was too long, didn't read. ;^)

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BlazeBallon may not worth 80DU, im sure it can do about 200k dps T1 and even beyond, when i tried it last i didnt had any ascension on it ( 200medals lel) and i was about 150-160kdps, in AOE, imagine with a Frosty or 2, you could basically hold a lane, idk if the range gambit scale well but if you can basically hit ranged mobs + melee/blockades then its worth

Imagine you usually put about 180-250du in a lane to hold it

1-2 walls 3ramsters 180-210

1-2walls 3flamethrower 150-180

1-2walls 1blazeballoon 1 frosty 140-170, now its about HOW you manage to build it in C5, and if the range is not a problem, even if its not that worth DPS for 80du, as long as in solo the highest HP mobs will get is about 2m ( not counting boss) well you should kill them fast enough to be able to say a lane hold herself

Well anyway i'd personally like to see how you guys play with blaze balloon/traps/geyser in C5 because i just cant haha, same for some dryad defense who seem to get a good dps in the tooltips but not against dummies/ig ( I think alot about harpy/bees), and same for reflect beam from EV ? I never understood what god they were thinking about when they did it... Basically a defense that protect you from... trashmob... that dies instantly to any flame aura... Which can break ice but got so dam long attack rate... well

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skyaliciouse


I did another round of hornet testing after you said they where better with a range shard.

This is C5 sewer i set the top 2 lanes up with normal PDT and flame throwers so i could watch the hornets.(watch in 1080HD if you want to read the numbers)


I used boost aura to maximise hornet dmg i put them in what i think is a perfect spot to hit 3 lanes with. And i even used the tree as a wall to not waste the DU.

After boost aura the hornets had ~70k dps

(for reference: My flamethrowers do 250k+ dps without boost aura and my PDT does 170k+ not including the explosions)

Used DP DS DH with destruction vampiric and range. I was to lazy to move the 1 rate shard i have for a minor dps increase.


The result is:

Its doable but its horrible compared to other better defenses. I can usually afk this map. I sold most of them after wave 1 and replaced them with a few PDTs and flamethrowers and it was 10x easier.


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@Bidru quote:

Are you even playing C5 ?

+ Dreamanime, if you got any news on HOW to use Traptress C5 it would make me so damn happy, cant imagine how we can manage to play em since the range gambit dont buff the trigger range

All huntress' defenses are good or okay, except Blaze Balloon because of the 8 targets cap. 

Explosive Traps: Don't be fooled by what other says. It is certainly not overpowered now, but it is very usable for 20 DU. However, you need to know exactly where to place it, so you need to be familiar with enemies' path on the map. I used to use them on C5 (before it became afk for me) for anti lady orc. Just place 2 in front of walls (EMP cyborks will die before getting to walls so they won't deactivate the traps). Learn to adapt to the new enemeis.

Geyser: Didn't test much, but seemed to have decent damage, nice shards, and nice combo with AA. Again, you need to know exactly where to put them, and like explosives, if you got the exact spots, it's really powerful.

PDT: no need to say how good they are in C5 now. With the geodes on C4 and C3 it's still usable, but you need to be really strategic and follow 2 rules:

1) It must only be able to hit enemies which are close to walls. That way, you need to have a build that will kill geodes before they get to walls. PDT will decimate lady orcs.

2) Preferably do not place them behind walls. It's not a must, but the reflect poison can damage walls, and worst can be reflected and destroy the core.

Blaze Balloon: Very nice tick damage and decent speed, and super nice range. However, the 8 targets cap makes it very bad. 

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@Bidru quote:

Are you even playing C5 ?

+ Dreamanime, if you got any news on HOW to use Traptress C5 it would make me so damn happy, cant imagine how we can manage to play em since the range gambit dont buff the trigger range

All huntress' defenses are good or okay, except Blaze Balloon because of the 8 targets cap. 

Explosive Traps: Don't be fooled by what other says. It is certainly not overpowered now, but it is very usable for 20 DU. However, you need to know exactly where to place it, so you need to be familiar with enemies' path on the map. I used to use them on C5 (before it became afk for me) for anti lady orc. Just place 2 in front of walls (EMP cyborks will die before getting to walls so they won't deactivate the traps). Learn to adapt to the new enemeis.

Geyser: Didn't test much, but seemed to have decent damage, nice shards, and nice combo with AA. Again, you need to know exactly where to put them, and like explosives, if you got the exact spots, it's really powerful.

PDT: no need to say how good they are in C5 now. With the geodes on C4 and C3 it's still usable, but you need to be really strategic and follow 2 rules:

1) It must only be able to hit enemies which are close to walls. That way, you need to have a build that will kill geodes before they get to walls. PDT will decimate lady orcs.

2) Preferably do not place them behind walls. It's not a must, but the reflect poison can damage walls, and worst can be reflected and destroy the core.

Blaze Balloon: Very nice tick damage and decent speed, and super nice range. However, the 8 targets cap makes it very bad. 

That pesky 8 target cap! Make it go away Trendy! What is the point of having a HUGE AoE if it can only hit 8 targets at a time?! Anyway, good stuff there Mushroom!! :-)

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@Bidru quote:

Are you even playing C5 ?

+ Dreamanime, if you got any news on HOW to use Traptress C5 it would make me so damn happy, cant imagine how we can manage to play em since the range gambit dont buff the trigger range

All huntress' defenses are good or okay, except Blaze Balloon because of the 8 targets cap. 

Explosive Traps: Don't be fooled by what other says. It is certainly not overpowered now, but it is very usable for 20 DU. However, you need to know exactly where to place it, so you need to be familiar with enemies' path on the map. I used to use them on C5 (before it became afk for me) for anti lady orc. Just place 2 in front of walls (EMP cyborks will die before getting to walls so they won't deactivate the traps). Learn to adapt to the new enemeis.

Geyser: Didn't test much, but seemed to have decent damage, nice shards, and nice combo with AA. Again, you need to know exactly where to put them, and like explosives, if you got the exact spots, it's really powerful.

PDT: no need to say how good they are in C5 now. With the geodes on C4 and C3 it's still usable, but you need to be really strategic and follow 2 rules:

1) It must only be able to hit enemies which are close to walls. That way, you need to have a build that will kill geodes before they get to walls. PDT will decimate lady orcs.

2) Preferably do not place them behind walls. It's not a must, but the reflect poison can damage walls, and worst can be reflected and destroy the core.

Blaze Balloon: Very nice tick damage and decent speed, and super nice range. However, the 8 targets cap makes it very bad. 

Thats exactly what i would do, i asked more like " Give me a way to use it as AOE/based around build instead of just put 1-2 in front of wall and just dps-ing lady, which is not the optimal way of using em... i mean, let say 75K for 20du ? 150 for 40 ? I'll just play my pdt...

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@Zimmermann quote:
  • Many players use Flamethrowers, that is evolving to PDT (needs a nerf by what I am hearing)


I had my PDTs set up the old way with the best mark I had, it does pitful damage now since the patch. Whats the current best way to build it now? shards?

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@h4te quote:


@Zimmermann quote:
  • Many players use Flamethrowers, that is evolving to PDT (needs a nerf by what I am hearing)


I had my PDTs set up the old way with the best mark I had, it does pitful damage now since the patch. Whats the current best way to build it now? shards?

if they fixed the crit bug which you were abusing with a mark i am pretty sure without any foresight or knowledge, the best build would be something like: a DP/DS/DH medallion with attack rate/Defense power/enhanced poison.

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Darn, I have explosive poison, guess Ill have to keep farming :-0

@Zimmermann quote:

if they fixed the crit bug which you were abusing with a mark i am pretty sure without any foresight or knowledge, the best build would be something like: a DP/DS/DH medallion with attack rate/Defense power/enhanced poison.


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@h4te quote:

Darn, I have explosive poison, guess Ill have to keep farming :-0

@Zimmermann quote:

if they fixed the crit bug which you were abusing with a mark i am pretty sure without any foresight or knowledge, the best build would be something like: a DP/DS/DH medallion with attack rate/Defense power/enhanced poison.


I am not sure there is a massive difference between the two, again going on what someone else told me. I do not use PDT's, I just gather info on the developing META.

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@MushroomCake28 quote:

Explosive Traps: Don't be fooled by what other says. It is certainly not overpowered now, but it is very usable for 20 DU. However, you need to know exactly where to place it, so you need to be familiar with enemies' path on the map. I used to use them on C5 (before it became afk for me) for anti lady orc. Just place 2 in front of walls (EMP cyborks will die before getting to walls so they won't deactivate the traps). Learn to adapt to the new enemeis.


Honestly, I think your opinion became invalid for anyone who wasn't already decked out in ascension and doing Chaos V WITH the gear you get from doing Chaos V the moment you said "EMP cyborks will die before getting to walls".


....at the point where EMP orks are dying before getting to walls, why the heck would you even need the explosive traps anymore anyways?  If your set up and towers are at that point, you could probably beat the stage even if you didn't bother to spend the DU on them and just left the DU sitting there.

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