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[Early Access] Patch 19.4 Notes and Discussion

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Chaos Enemy Spawn Changes

Here's our Chaos philosophy: For each Chaos tier, we want to introduce enemies that counter certain defenses and strategies. Based on that, we want to reward you for recognizing and countering that threat. Each Chaos tier should have its own counters and strategies, and the build variety should be in the ways that you can counter them. Not everything should be effective, but there should be enough things that are effective to keep things interesting. Before this patch, the combination of Chaos enemy spawns muddied the enemy and defense counterplay. There were so many types of defense counters happening that there was a very narrow set of counters you could use, especially in Chaos IV and V. These changes are aimed at expanding the viable set of defenses per-Chaos.


Chaos II

Cyborks are an anti-trap/aura/node enemy. If you’re attempting to take down Cyborks with these defenses, you’re going to have a hard time. If you’re building around the Cyborks, we want to reward you for that behaviour. We don’t want to spawn enemies that also counter the defenses you would use to destroy Cyborks, so in Chaos II, there are no longer any Vanguards from the previous Chaos (Chaos I).Vanguards are replaced in the rollouts with standard enemies. We adjusted some of the support enemies (Dark Mages, Kobolds, Witherbeasts, etc.) in the same manner of reinforcing the Cyborks.

  • Removed Vanguards from Chaos II

  • New Chaos II Enemy List:  Cyborks


Chaos III

Chaos III is all about the Shield Geode and blocking projectiles, so having Cyborks show up in this Chaos impairs your ability to counter the Geode. Again, we don't want to punish players for countering the Chaos enemy theme; however, Vanguards support the Shield Geode theme of projectile blocking, so you will still see them in Chaos III.

  • Removed Cyborks from Chaos III

  • New Chaos III Enemy List:  Shield Geodes, Vanguards


Chaos IV

This Chaos is centered around the Berserker Orcs. Berserkers are all about being fast and dealing high damage upon reaching defenses, so using things like stuns and knockups to slow them down are your main counter for this threat. Cyborks counter most of those kinds of effects, so you won't see Cyborks in this Chaos tier anymore.

  • Removed Cyborks from Chaos IV

  • New Chaos IV Enemy List:  Berserker Orcs, Shield Geodes, Vanguards


Chaos V

Chaos V is all about Dark Assassins. We want players to work together to get those pesky Assassins off, or if you’re solo, we want your defenses to have a clear line of sight on them to prevent them from teleporting and healing. So having Shield Geodes and Vanguards disrupts that, so you won’t see them in Chaos V anymore.

  • Removed Shield Geodes and Vanguards from Chaos V

  • New Chaos V Enemy List:  Dark Assassins, Cyborks, Berserker Orcs


Once you try out these changes, let us know how they feel. We’ll continue to make tweaks to the experience based on what we’re hearing!


Siege Roller No Longer Destroys Traps, Auras and Nodes

Rejoice! The Siege Roller caused players to never build certain defenses out of a certain crushing fear, and we figured that with our Chaos enemies providing enough counterplay, we can remove this.

There's also a bug where more Siege Rollers are spawning than intended. We're looking into a fix for the near future.


Item Comparison Change

Now you can more easily compare two pieces of loot in your Inventory, even when the items are equipped. Pick up an item and hover over another item to compare those two items directly against each other. More Inventory UI changes coming soon! (Note:  For now, the default Relic comparison popup is disabled.)


Multiplayer Enemy Scaling Reduction

It looks like the multiplayer enemy scalar was dramatically increasing the difficulty in multiplayer matches, so we’ve reduced the multiplayer enemy health and damage scalar from 35% to 25% per player. For multiplayer scaling, our goal is not to punish you for your playing with your friends. Our long-term goal for MP scaling is to increase enemy stats for each player added to ensure the content isn't trivialized and to increase the rewards you get per player added to encourage MP games. For the time being, we have reduced the enemy stat scaling per player added until we can make those changes.

Thanks for the feedback on this issue, and we’ll continue to make adjustments!


Campaign Changes

We’ve been monitoring progression from Campaign into the Chaos difficulties, and we’ve found we agree with player sentiment that the initial ‘jump’ is a bit too awkward to make. The goal with these changes is to make breaking into Chaos a bit more sensical and easy, by providing more Chaos-ready loot in the final few Campaign maps. We'll continue to monitor this and make adjustments as needed.

Secondly, we wanted to put an end to players blitz-farming Harbinger’s Warship as a way to get easy XP. While this wasn’t much of an issue for players at the appropriate difficulty, players with very high-end gear could clear the map much quicker than desired. As a result, this map now provides much better Campaign loot, but provides no experience after the first clear.


  • Assault on the Throne Room can now drop the highest power items in the campaign, the same as Harbinger’s Warship.

  • Harbinger’s Warship only provides experience on the first clear, and subsequent clears provide almost no experience.

  • The Harbinger himself drops over double the number of items (on average), making killing him far more rewarding for players gearing up for Chaos 1.


Construction Shard Update

We love the Construction shard, but we felt the repair rate bonus was starting to trivialize some encounters. A number of strategies started to evolve around repair-stalling enemies at blockades rather than building defenses to counter enemies earlier in-lane. We want to ensure that Construction remains a valuable shard, but as we move forward, we very much want to see key enemies engaged prior to reaching the blockades. As a result, Construction has lost some of its punch, although it remains a significant time saver when it comes to repairing blockades.

    • Base bonus decreased from +125% to +25%

    • Max bonus decreased from +205% to +75%


Ghastly Halberd and Lunar Portal Revisions

The summoned halberds came out of the gates a bit too high on the DPS. (That’s putting it mildly. Turns out it was the best weapon/shard in the game, for like, forever.)  As such, Ghastly Halberd underwent major revisions to bring its power down enough that you might actually find upgrades that will replace it in later difficulties. Coincidentally, since everyone was blinded by the Ghastly Halberd’s total OP’ness, we also noticed Lunar Portal had similar issues (to a lesser extent), so this has received minor revisions.
  • Ghastly Halberd

    • Max Summons 5 -> 3

    • Halberd Damage scalar decreased 350% -> 150%

    • Halberd Attack Rate decreased by 50% (attacks only 2x per second now)

  • Lunar Portal

    • Max Summons 5 -> 3

    • Portal Damage scalar decreased 350% -> 300% (attacks 1x per second)

  • Descriptions of both of these effects now documents their damage, attacks-per-second, and lifespans.

Bug Fixes

  • Dark Assassins were unintentionally being instakilled by shattering and other instakill effects. (Next on our list is looking into the Frostbite fast-freezing bug.)

  • Worm Scarf now properly reduces damage taken, instead of increasing damage taken. We had thought that dying faster was going to provide an advantage on some maps, but it turns out we were horribly, horribly wrong, and we should have realized that players generally don’t want to die faster by equipping expensive shards. ;)

  • Goblin melee units had somehow starting equipping themselves with Armor-ignoring cleavers. We’ve discovered their treachery, and have forced them to start using their normal cleavers once again.

  • Gunwitch’s hands have become quite frostbitten, and she will no longer sometimes double-fire Ice Needle as she warms them up.

  • Enlightenment, a mythical Apprentice Magic Staff, is now equippable again, and will once-again generate as a random mythical weapon skin.

  • Fixed a bug where the Dryad came back to life with 1 health if she died in Corrupt Form.

  • Fixed collision issues on Unholy Catacombs.

  • (PS4) Fixed a bug where the Victory Screen wasn’t fully visible while in split-screen

  • (PS4) Fixed a bug where, while in split-screen, picking up or equipping an item would make it appear twice in the Inventory.


Known Issues

  • We’re taking a deep dive into the stuck Siege Roller spawns that are being reported to us. If you see a stuck Siege Roller, please report the map, lane name, wave and difficulty on our Siege Roller reporting thread.

  • EV - Shield Geodes moving over EV nodes cause the nodes to create a visual Shield.

  • Looks like a set of Vanguards and two Shield Geodes manage to sneak their way into Chaos 5. We'll nuke them.

  • We’re also investigating changes to our loot system, Shard drops, gold gain and more. Keep the feedback coming! <3

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  • Goblin melee units had somehow starting equipping themselves with Armor-ignoring cleavers. We’ve discovered their treachery, and have forced them to start using their normal cleavers once again.

Pretty sure Dreamanime was behind that problem.


  • Worm Scarf now properly reduces damage taken, instead of increasing damage taken. We had thought that dying faster was going to provide an advantage on some maps, but it turns out we were horribly, horribly wrong, and we should have realized that players generally don’t want to die faster by equipping expensive shards. ;)

Now all you need to do is fix the tool tip so it doesn't melt my brain when I read it^^ "reduces the damage you take from enemies by -15%", 2 negatives make a positive guys :P

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Love the work and the ideas. My only nitpick... IS WHY ARE NERFS ALWAYS ALWAYS SO EXTREME!?!?! Find your balance team [[4370,users]] AND TAKE AWAY THEIR HAMMER! Give them a chisel or something... Seeing ANYTHING in this game be reduced to less than half of what it was before just hurts my logic lol. Regardless of if it was deserved.

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I'm sure my opinion of hard counters is well noted by now. But this truly is another step in a right direction, still wont be able to use my harpoons or cannons, but alas.

Though in all honesty, it'd have required grade A mental gymnastics to upset the balance of the game even worse..

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iamisom Could Trendy please update the trial page ingame to mention what enemy combinations you will fight on each difficulty? Just seems stupid that the information is only available in the patch notes that will be hard to find for new player later.

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Oh no! My Apprentice got nerfed. Thank you Halberd it was good while it lasted! xD

Chaos maps are going to be interesting now. Wonder what builds people will think of with the new enemy revisions.

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@Zimmermann quote:
  • Goblin melee units had somehow starting equipping themselves with Armor-ignoring cleavers. We’ve discovered their treachery, and have forced them to start using their normal cleavers once again.

Pretty sure Dreamanime was behind that problem.

Gobus proud race, don't blame nicest gobu [[94093,users]]

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So... yet another week to pause from DD2.

Why? Because you haven't fixed shards and their rarity.

Yes you have made it easier to play C1, C2 and C3 with different types of enemies if you have old NM4 gear and rare required shards. But you still have to GRIND C1 in order to get required shards.

So C1 is basically the same, and you MUST play it to get Deadly Strikes and Vampiric Empowerment.

Nothing significantly changed except wasting 1GB of data.

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i love the fixs but why the hard nerfs? come on. i get nerfing some strong  dps/tower/items.  that repair and ghost nerfs are super hardcore

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The XP nerf to the Harbinger ship was uncalled for imho.

While I appreciate the loot drops, it makes no sense that the map doesn't reward players willing to help others ( let's face it, up front low level players leeching or Ascension farming ) . 

As someone said above, the Nerfs are always super extreme, this XP Nerf came out of no where again and we had no time to provide feedback on it before it happened. 


Now, I'll play the other side of the coin.

Chaos maps are giving quite good XP at the moment while also providing loot. It's normal that the progression shifts from farming Harbinger over and over and over.....forever because it was efficient .


It's actually a good direction to be honest, I just think giving NO XP is going overboard. 


Overall, even if some concerns haven't been addressed as of now/yet this patch does it job at giving "us" hope on the future of the game and it's content .

I still think there's a long road of work ahead to balance chaos and make it actually fun and enjoyable with any hero combination instead of just a select few, but for now, I'll play out this patch and see how it feels to progress.

Would like to address something you said regarding the Construction shards and the fact you want enemies to be engaged before reaching the blockades. I don't think this is right nor should be the focus of the game. It should remain first and foremost a Tower Defense Game, and as such, the enemies are MEANT to reach and be stopped by the blockades/walls while we deal with them. Thats my two cents :\ 

As I mentioned, on PC I'm able to do C4 but I inherited a lot from the conversion when the patch hit, so I was basing the experience on what I had.
Since I started a fresh game on the PS4 ( just hit 50 yesterday), I'll be able to test this patch first hand and will provide feedback on the experience after wards. 


Keep the information flowing and PLEASE, post the intended changes sooner next time :P It might be good to reflect and discuss them before they're applied. That also gives time to prepare psychologically instead of simply reacting to the changes ( It's a lot more disruptive )

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@Elyssae quote:

The XP nerf to the Harbinger ship was uncalled for imho.

While I appreciate the loot drops, it makes no sense that the map doesn't reward players willing to help others ( let's face it, up front low level players leeching or Ascension farming ) . 

As someone said above, the Nerfs are always super extreme, this XP Nerf came out of no where again and we had no time to provide feedback on it before it happened. 

I'm sorry that we had to do it. :( Since the map was so easily beatable even if we had just greatly lowered the amount XP gained, people would have still done the same thing because its free XP without work and we have had to lower the XP before hand. It's not like other maps that require you to actually clear all enemies. However the XP nerf was massively needed in this case as players were also using bots and macros to kill and beat the map in under 2 minutes, rinse and repeat for hours upon hours on end(10+ hours at time). Which is why it also wasn't made public because it would just have more players rush to abuse it to get hundreds of ascension levels with no effort. Hope that better explains this situation :)

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Nerf everything more trendy i mean who wants to ever win maps, theres that losing screen too see because of all the bugs! Not one of which was even mentiod let alone fixed. And its like trendy dosent know thier own game and maps, nerfed a shard to prevent blockade stalling which you HAVE to do on quite a few lanes or lose objectives. Dosent fix shield geode or spear throwers causing insta lost games. Never mentiod issues like some monsters will try too just walk through blockades and insta the core and suceed alot due too bad agroo.  Do not get me wrong i think removing certain chaos mobs was a good step if a small one the issue is those monsters still massivly limit build diversity hurting the game. The solutions simple remove shield geodes and emp orcs pending an over haul.

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@Ice quote:

I'm sorry that we had to do it. :( Since the map was so easily beatable even if we had just greatly lowered the amount XP gained, people would have still done the same thing because its free XP without work and we have had to lower the XP before hand. It's not like other maps that require you to actually clear all enemies. However the XP nerf was massively needed in this case as players were also using bots and marcos to kill and beat the map in under 2 minutes, rinse and repeat for hours upon hours on end(10+ hours at time). Which is why it also wasn't made public because it would just have more players rush to abuse it to get hundreds of ascension levels with no effort. Hope that better explains this situation :)

Oh ! Thanks for the quick answer, and I'm fully aware WHY you did it :P I just think that giving absolutely NO XP whatsoever after the first try is going overboard :D 

As I mentioned on my post, I fully understand it, and as Chaos becomes more accessible, it makes sense to move the progression there.

One thing that could've helped, but again I know it's even harder to implement when the fix is a lot simpler, would've been separate XP for normal levels and Ascension. Cause let's face it, it's not the fact players can reach lvl50 too quickly that lead to this nerf, it's the fact we could farm Ascension lvls way faster than intended :P . 


Nevertheless, I'm not bothered much about this ( just that it wasn't mentioned before hand!) as people can still level up decently during chaos runs and get gear .

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@Slauter24 quote:

Nerf everything more trendy i mean who wants to ever win maps, theres that losing screen too see because of all the bugs! Not one of which was even mentiod let alone fixed


@sakis2011 quote:

lets call it nerf patch 2.0 the new update


To be honest, it's not that big of a Nerf on those weapons/shard. 

In fact, it can be seen as a buff since Chaos will now be more balanced and allow you more breathing room within this weird meta we're in.


From all the patches and hotfixes they've done this past 2 weeks.....this is the best one yet >_>

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I hear ya on the Harbringer, It needed nerfed. The same folks that complain they cant get a shard may possibly be the people just grinding him out /shrug just an assumption. I used him myself to level up my kids char in multiplayer. We already had everything else she just wanted the gun witch. 


I know its frustrating to grind c1, for me I get nothing from it but xp and shards. I still havnt gotten any i need lol. I will just keep at it and they will come in time. I would just like them to come on and drop so i can grind on c2 and then c3. I can struggle with the higher chaos (c4) and its a struggle 25%ish win or so. The shards will help a ton.


In the long haul you could possibly figure out the avg xp per hour from running c1 and make it so that he kind of hits the same mark. That way if they want to grind gear or shards it will kind of equal out. Just my 2 cents, I just feel like this one is gonna make folks scream.

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@RasQee quote:

So... yet another week to pause from DD2.

Why? Because you haven't fixed shards and their rarity.

Yes you have made it easier to play C1, C2 and C3 with different types of enemies if you have old NM4 gear and rare required shards. But you still have to GRIND C1 in order to get required shards.

So C1 is basically the same, and you MUST play it to get Deadly Strikes and Vampiric Empowerment.

Nothing significantly changed except wasting 1GB of data.

You dont need it at all, I play c4 easily without those shards

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@Ice quote:

I'm sorry that we had to do it.

Don't be sorry. They'll realise that doing c1 levels a char from 1 to 50 in roughly the same amount of time (Only a little longer) and it's far more beneficial to do so


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@Elyssae quote:


@Slauter24 quote:

Nerf everything more trendy i mean who wants to ever win maps, theres that losing screen too see because of all the bugs! Not one of which was even mentiod let alone fixed


@sakis2011 quote:

lets call it nerf patch 2.0 the new update


To be honest, it's not that big of a Nerf on those weapons/shard. 

In fact, it can be seen as a buff since Chaos will now be more balanced and allow you more breathing room within this weird meta we're in.


From all the patches and hotfixes they've done this past 2 weeks.....this is the best one yet >_>

You See thats where your wrong as literaly nothing changed besides c2 and c5 meta everything else got a nerf making it even harder to progress than it was before, its simple to fix build diversity but trendy seems too refuse to do it as itd mean admitting they ****** upbig time with the geodes ruining build diversity by design. Sure on c3-5 you can use traps now more freely but people allready had too as shield geodes force it. This was a bad patch so many gamebreaking bugs and they chose to worry about if shards are too strong when most players arent even trying c3 for a reason  

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@MamaTata quote:

Geodes showed them selves in chaos 5... couple of them on 2 played maps. Post-patch. Iamisom

Yep, known issue! Looks like those two Geodes and a pack of Vanguards slipped past. We'll nuke 'em.

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