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Slauter24

Geode change needed

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Atm geodes are bad for the game i will list a few reasons why.

1. Random rng instant losses, if you use ANY projectile tower you are likely aware of this a single shot reflected to a core and you lose for not only using towers it cannot block. Reflects to defences  also shred defences faster than any monster i know of.

2. Limits build divercity massivly. If you arent using multiple towers per lane to only counter geodes you will lose unless you way over geared

How to fix them? Personally i have a couple ideas how to fix them.

1.Make the shield absorb the projectile and remove that projectiles attack dmg from the goedes hp, poison/stun/knockup would not be appled to the geoed through the absorbed dmg also its shield never falls as it rarely does now. 

2.Simply make thier shield have a hp bar that can be permenantly killed. As atm unless your using all or mostly towers it cant block 1 geod can make your defences get over run quickly without hero intervention, let alone the 2-3 that sometimes spawn for the same chokepoint all at once.


P.S. Typing this from a ps4 sorry for the bad grammar .


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i seckond this the geodes makes projektile towers horrible to waste DU on if the shield had 3 charges (1 charge per shot reflekted) then shield goes down for 5-8 sec the mekanic of the geode should still be intakt and projektile towers shoud become viable

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Placement is a big part of dealing with geodes, but I agree absorbing would be a better mechanic.  Maybe they could even absorb the damage and fire back rather than deflect, keeping the same general mechanics but eliminating the randomness. 

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I'm just going to put a hypothetical question. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that geodes may need changes. But this question is on the side of "may not need changes" so here goes :

"If the Defenders is having a defense like Reflect Beam, why can't the Old One's Army have it too?"

Before anyone attack or do something, remember that this is just a fun question.

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@gotrunks712 quote:

Placement is a big part of dealing with geodes, but I agree absorbing would be a better mechanic.  Maybe they could even absorb the damage and fire back rather than deflect, keeping the same general mechanics but eliminating the randomness. 

That does sound pretty good. And if the shield does eventually gets destroyed. it just allow the usage of projectile towers though just harder.

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Yeah this is something I've been thinking about recently.  I'm all for units shaking up how you have to play the game, but Geode simply means you can't use certain towers most of the time.  Which is a shame, as it means squire is good for his walls and ONLY his walls.

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geodes, as well as the other 2 hard-counters, just plain need a rework. There should not be hard-counters in the game at all. It's fake challenge, as in ,makes you think it's challenging, but it's actually not, cause all you gotta do is not use those towers, win, easy.


Replace them all with ingenuitive mobs like those ones in the yeti incursions. Those were some brilliant mob designs that provided challenge and FUN!

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Agree, geodes ruin the game, they make most towers not worth to use, I like the idea of not allow players to use same build on all the maps, but this hard-counter mechanics are ruining the game, it gets very boring when you need to farm same map many times (which is almost during all the game) bc it forces you to USE THE FCKNG SAME BUILD EVERY TIME!!

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Let me play devil's advocate.  Although some of you complain about hard counters limiting choice, the reality is that most players (maybe not you folk) are going to find a basic meta that works for them and use it on every map and then they'll complain that the game isn't challenging enough.  So Trendy add some challenge to force you to use different towers and now it's a complaint about lack of choice.

Personally I like the idea of challenge levels and wouldn't want chaos trials changed.  They just need to add more variety so you aren't stuck farming chaos tiers with a game mechanic you might not enjoy.

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funny you say that, since i think the ones complaining about choice are the ones who dont follow the meta and wanna build their own style or use the towers they like. But chaos and it's hard-counters dont allow that.


I also think it funny you say you like the challenge. You realize chaos isnt challenging right? It's fake. The only "challenge" is finding out which tower works, once you do, it's pathetically easy. So basically, follow the "meta" Which the meta is forced cause it's the only setup that is designed to work against the Hard-Counters of Chaos.


If the hard-counter were changed. Just the hard-counters cause they are the only problem, the other mobs of chaos actually provide a sense of true challenge. If the hard-counters were changed, we'd have the freedom of using whatever towers we want, to NOT have to follow the meta because it's the only thing that works, and get some true challenge, not false challenge that disappears once you know which tower to use.

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@Kruntski quote:

Although some of you complain about hard counters limiting choice, the reality is that most players (maybe not you folk) are going to find a basic meta that works for them and use it on every map

There's still a basic meta in every tier for dealing with the hard counter. Not much of a difference, is it?

Also chaos certainly isn't "challenging". 

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@Jojozityjo quote:

funny you say that, since i think the ones complaining about choice are the ones who dont follow the meta and wanna build their own style or use the towers they like. But chaos and it's hard-counters dont allow that.


I also think it funny you say you like the challenge. You realize chaos isnt challenging right? It's fake. The only "challenge" is finding out which tower works, once you do, it's pathetically easy. So basically, follow the "meta" Which the meta is forced cause it's the only setup that is designed to work against the Hard-Counters of Chaos.


If the hard-counter were changed. Just the hard-counters cause they are the only problem, the other mobs of chaos actually provide a sense of true challenge. If the hard-counters were changed, we'd have the freedom of using whatever towers we want, to NOT have to follow the meta because it's the only thing that works, and get some true challenge, not false challenge that disappears once you know which tower to use.


Actually, those hard counter enemies aren't forcing anything. Due to current stats scaling and overall balance of the game, you can use almost any towers you want and still win, no matter which chaos tier you are on. If you do it properly ofc. The problem is, it's not as easy and fast, as just placing a couple of aoe auras on each lane. 

In other words: people are lazy and current game balance promote their laziness. 

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@enigma007 quote:


@Jojozityjo quote:

funny you say that, since i think the ones complaining about choice are the ones who dont follow the meta and wanna build their own style or use the towers they like. But chaos and it's hard-counters dont allow that.


I also think it funny you say you like the challenge. You realize chaos isnt challenging right? It's fake. The only "challenge" is finding out which tower works, once you do, it's pathetically easy. So basically, follow the "meta" Which the meta is forced cause it's the only setup that is designed to work against the Hard-Counters of Chaos.


If the hard-counter were changed. Just the hard-counters cause they are the only problem, the other mobs of chaos actually provide a sense of true challenge. If the hard-counters were changed, we'd have the freedom of using whatever towers we want, to NOT have to follow the meta because it's the only thing that works, and get some true challenge, not false challenge that disappears once you know which tower to use.


Actually, those hard counter enemies aren't forcing anything. Due to current stats scaling and overall balance of the game, you can use almost any towers you want and still win, no matter which chaos tier you are on. If you do it properly ofc. The problem is, it's not as easy and fast, as just placing a couple of aoe auras on each lane. 

In other words: people are lazy and current game balance promote their laziness. 

Please make a video beating c3 using projectile towers and c2 gear/shards

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@Miguel1118 quote:


@enigma007 quote:

Actually, those hard counter enemies aren't forcing anything. Due to current stats scaling and overall balance of the game, you can use almost any towers you want and still win, no matter which chaos tier you are on. If you do it properly ofc. The problem is, it's not as easy and fast, as just placing a couple of aoe auras on each lane. 

In other words: people are lazy and current game balance promote their laziness. 

Please make a video beating c3 using projectile towers and c2 gear/shards

this lol

it's not really anything to do with lazy, it's the fact that it just dont work, unless you are stupidly high ascension with max out c7 gear going back to previous chaos levels.

Geodes counter projectiles, period, and putting them close enough so the "barrel" is inside the geode bubble so it dont get reflected, is stupidly dangerous. Oh look, that jav took it out, that grenade gob, that kobolt, that orc. Not to mention it's not always going to be in the circle, there are going to be times it's not in the bubble and bam, reflected, something got destroyed, lane is screwed now.

The amount of people who have the power and the masochistic nature to torment themselves with that kind of placement is basically the one percentile of the population. No one else is going to put themselves through that. I.E. PLayers are forced to use the meta for the tier they are on, or suffer.

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We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.


Having diversity in enemies, and actually making you not play with one tower all the time is a great thing. We all know how dull the game was with one ranged tower. Yet some want the game to return to that. The only solution is for Trendy to give us both modes. Where you can advance equally. 

One that for the ones that like having to use different towers to advance, and one that people can use only the same set and do nothing more than that. Balance would be an issue. But I see no other solution

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to be precise, we asked for more towers to be viable other than PDT cause the balance made PDT tower the most OP thing ever. So we got trials instead. Which, yeah, forces us to use different towers per tier, but those are the only towers we can use per tier. When you are at C7 and C7 is the only thing worthwhile to do, at all, AT ALL. We are only allowed to use the towers C7 allows us to use. So, we are forced to only use one kind of tower.

We want the game to return to a state where we have choices in what we do again. Which is different than wanting it to go back to the way it was. Least in the way it was, we had choices, we didn't HAVE to use PDT all the time, we coulda used anything and still pull the win we wanted. That's what we want, the choice to be able to do what we want, to use whatever tower we want and be able to pull the win.


I cant stand to play the game anymore cause of how chaos works. Having to do C7 over and over for the inevitible loot grind, only allowed to use the same types of towers over and over. I cant stand it, i hate building. I only get any enjoyment if i leap into others builds and have them build, but it still gets old. I'd kill for an endgame mode where I can build whatever i want and still manage to win. Like a build based around flamethrowers with the mark enemy shard so i can sit in a vantage point with my adept and spam arc lightning. Or get to use ballista again. Or make Archers work again. Be able to experiment and try new oddball ideas without being completely denied by chaos's hard-counter mobs. Where I can pick whatever map i want to play and keep playing it until im done with it or mastered my new build idea for it, then move on to another map ive got the tickle for.

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Pretty much any tower is viable and progress is fast enough that you'll speed through tiers to C7 within a week with only a couple of hours playtime a night (possible because I did it with less than 130 ascension).  Even in C7, the only problem is tower placement, which you should always be aware of.

In any game you should be playing to the encounter.  Not doing so and claiming it limits creativity is pointless.  I will think the best Iron for endgame is a randomized enemy last that changes from map to map forcing you to adapt and change your build. 

Also, to those claiming that meta builds mean the game has no challenge, don't use the meta.  There will always be a best build in the game, but literally everything is viable.  I've used nearly every tower in C7 and been fine.  Yes some do need rebalanced, but you can still build whatever you want and progress. The real question is how easy and fast do you want your progress to be. 

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@gotrunks712 quote:

1) Pretty much any tower is viable 

2) In any game you should be playing to the encounter.  Not doing so and claiming it limits creativity is pointless. 

3) I've used nearly every tower in C7 and been fine.

1) Not at every tier with relevant gear, it isn't. 

2) Except it's a dumb concept. The encounters should provide a challenge (like lady orcs forcing you to learn how to properly place walls, or get severely punished for your bad placement.). "If you place this trap it'll get deactivated for the whole wave" or "If you place this tower it'll destroy all your other defences due to this mob" isn't a challenge. 

3) Yeah, that's possible when you're over geared. As is completing an entire c7 map while afk without upgrading/repairing anything. 



@specialK quote:

We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.

The original problem was that a single defence was so massively stronger than everything else (first traps, then PDT's) and the game was so overtuned that we were pretty much completely forced into using those until we had maxed out everything - and even then using other stuff was a bit of a struggle.

Balance is far better now - but the hard counters basically render all that re-balancing work on Trendy's part redundant for most of the playtime and progression currently. For most of the game at this point we're just shoe-horned from one type of defence to another and back again - is that really much better than before? Not in my eyes. 

These "challenging" enemies should be just that, a challenge. I don't see "if you place floor defences they'll get disabled" as much of a challenge, personally. I'd much rather see the hard counters replaced with mobs that provide a genuine challenge and have my freedom to build however I like restored.

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@Cuddles quote:
@specialK quote:

We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.

The original problem was that a single defence was so massively stronger than everything else (first traps, then PDT's) and the game was so overtuned that we were pretty much completely forced into using those until we had maxed out everything - and even then using other stuff was a bit of a struggle.

Balance is far better now - but the hard counters basically render all that re-balancing work on Trendy's part redundant for most of the playtime and progression currently. For most of the game at this point we're just shoe-horned from one type of defence to another and back again - is that really much better than before? Not in my eyes. 

These "challenging" enemies should be just that, a challenge. I don't see "if you place floor defences they'll get disabled" as much of a challenge, personally. I'd much rather see the hard counters replaced with mobs that provide a genuine challenge and have my freedom to build however I like restored.

There is another solution to this. Make every chaos tier, after you complete it and max it, make the previous scalable to your current level and gear, so you can return to that, or any you wish and prefer and still earn gear, and have a challenge.

So if you have reached C7, all previous tier are at C7 difficulty, and drop C7 gear, but with the unique enemies and limitations each set of tier has.


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@specialK quote:

We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.


Having diversity in enemies, and actually making you not play with one tower all the time is a great thing. We all know how dull the game was with one ranged tower. Yet some want the game to return to that. The only solution is for Trendy to give us both modes. Where you can advance equally. 

One that for the ones that like having to use different towers to advance, and one that people can use only the same set and do nothing more than that. Balance would be an issue. But I see no other solution

Yeah being able to build the same tower setup on all tiers was bad, but being able to build only a few possible combination of towers on each tier is WORST, if we had like 50 chaos tiers there wouldnt be any problem, but we have 7! You get like half level per run, if you reach c7 at lvl 300 thats 600 runs, thats like 100 runs on each chaos tier and you arent able to use like 50% of your towers on most of them bc hard counters.

Game stops being fun after your 10th run on C3 and it becomes and AFK grinding game, as Free user you only have 2 options on C3, using flame aura or flame thrower, nothing else

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@specialK quote:


@Cuddles quote:
@specialK quote:

We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.

The original problem was that a single defence was so massively stronger than everything else (first traps, then PDT's) and the game was so overtuned that we were pretty much completely forced into using those until we had maxed out everything - and even then using other stuff was a bit of a struggle.

Balance is far better now - but the hard counters basically render all that re-balancing work on Trendy's part redundant for most of the playtime and progression currently. For most of the game at this point we're just shoe-horned from one type of defence to another and back again - is that really much better than before? Not in my eyes. 

These "challenging" enemies should be just that, a challenge. I don't see "if you place floor defences they'll get disabled" as much of a challenge, personally. I'd much rather see the hard counters replaced with mobs that provide a genuine challenge and have my freedom to build however I like restored.

There is another solution to this. Make every chaos tier, after you complete it and max it, make the previous scalable to your current level and gear, so you can return to that, or any you wish and prefer and still earn gear, and have a challenge.

So if you have reached C7, all previous tier are at C7 difficulty, and drop C7 gear, but with the unique enemies and limitations each set of tier has.


Now that's pretty cool, It's actually supports the idea of, for ex, What's in Chaos 4 stays in Chaos 4. Now to make this more challenging, new enemies has to be added to each Chaos tier.  Maybe we could call this Chaos Nightmare for example

Now, I have to state the con sides, for example one has unlocked Chaos 3 with previous tiers are now at NM3 difficulty, and he/she doesn't like the enemies of C3, he/she'll just farm C2 NM3. Of course this could be fixed by, say, only by completing a quest of hitting a certain stat of gear of the final chaos tier, the rest of the chaos tiers will become at that final chaos difficulty. Plus it's actually more awesome if an unlocking system is introduced that impedes leeching. You'll have to progress the vanilla way.

Next is helping lower tiered players as you can no longer play at lower difficulty. This could be fixed by allowing you to be able to join lower tier matches only through to war table or invitation.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@specialK quote:


@Cuddles quote:
@specialK quote:

We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.

The original problem was that a single defence was so massively stronger than everything else (first traps, then PDT's) and the game was so overtuned that we were pretty much completely forced into using those until we had maxed out everything - and even then using other stuff was a bit of a struggle.

Balance is far better now - but the hard counters basically render all that re-balancing work on Trendy's part redundant for most of the playtime and progression currently. For most of the game at this point we're just shoe-horned from one type of defence to another and back again - is that really much better than before? Not in my eyes. 

These "challenging" enemies should be just that, a challenge. I don't see "if you place floor defences they'll get disabled" as much of a challenge, personally. I'd much rather see the hard counters replaced with mobs that provide a genuine challenge and have my freedom to build however I like restored.

There is another solution to this. Make every chaos tier, after you complete it and max it, make the previous scalable to your current level and gear, so you can return to that, or any you wish and prefer and still earn gear, and have a challenge.

So if you have reached C7, all previous tier are at C7 difficulty, and drop C7 gear, but with the unique enemies and limitations each set of tier has.


Now that's pretty cool, It's actually supports the idea of, for ex, What's in Chaos 4 stays in Chaos 4. Now to make this more challenging, new enemies has to be added to each Chaos tier.  

Now, I have to state the con sides, for example one has unlocked Chaos 3 and the previous tier are now at C3

That is true. There could be then a toggle, between default tier difficulty, or bring up to current tier. Of course all this could be a programmers nightmare.

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@specialK quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@specialK quote:


@Cuddles quote:
@specialK quote:

We complain about not having much diversity in enemies and that we only use a few towers. Trendy listens and we get Trials. We get trials, and different enemies, which allow you to use different towers to beat them, we complain about Trendy pushing us to use different towers and not only using a few.

The original problem was that a single defence was so massively stronger than everything else (first traps, then PDT's) and the game was so overtuned that we were pretty much completely forced into using those until we had maxed out everything - and even then using other stuff was a bit of a struggle.

Balance is far better now - but the hard counters basically render all that re-balancing work on Trendy's part redundant for most of the playtime and progression currently. For most of the game at this point we're just shoe-horned from one type of defence to another and back again - is that really much better than before? Not in my eyes. 

These "challenging" enemies should be just that, a challenge. I don't see "if you place floor defences they'll get disabled" as much of a challenge, personally. I'd much rather see the hard counters replaced with mobs that provide a genuine challenge and have my freedom to build however I like restored.

There is another solution to this. Make every chaos tier, after you complete it and max it, make the previous scalable to your current level and gear, so you can return to that, or any you wish and prefer and still earn gear, and have a challenge.

So if you have reached C7, all previous tier are at C7 difficulty, and drop C7 gear, but with the unique enemies and limitations each set of tier has.


Now that's pretty cool, It's actually supports the idea of, for ex, What's in Chaos 4 stays in Chaos 4. Now to make this more challenging, new enemies has to be added to each Chaos tier.  

Now, I have to state the con sides, for example one has unlocked Chaos 3 and the previous tier are now at C3

That is true. There could be then a toggle, between default tier difficulty, or bring up to current tier. Of course all this could be a programmers nightmare.

Sorry I accidentally posted this before I could complete it, You can re-read my post now as I've just completed it through editing.

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