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ChilledFrench

will gold dropped be adjusted?

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is it final for gold to drop at 13k for chaos win rewards? I mean we have shards, relics, gear AND weapons now to upgrade and we get them virtually every time we win. They require 200k gold on average to upgrade, it means that we need to win 10-15 times to upgrade 1 item fully, is that the desired goal?

If that's final I'm quitting. I can handle farming for items, shards and tough battles. I can't handle being stuck for days not being able to upgrade any items.

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Good riddance, then!

The gold gain is just about fine-ish. You can use medals to upgrade with that and it's not that hard to get both!

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@Nefhith quote:

Good riddance, then!

The gold gain is just about fine-ish. You can use medals to upgrade with that and it's not that hard to get both!



let me guess, you got between 50mil to 100mil from the update? If you're not at zero right now, without any nm4 legendaries or new update items. you CAN'T possibly judge how difficulty it is for players without those update free gifts. you just can't understand. All these people that progress right now and farm chaos 4 are only able to do that because of the free stuff they got form the new update. Anyone that did not get any free stuff, has 0 gold, no nm4 items and is just trying chaos 1 will probably take forever to even have a set of characters with decent items and shards to even try and complete the first few chaos levels.


you get 25 medals from each win, an item what? 100-300 medals to upgrade? what about farming for new characters?

This type of farm is unhealthy for new players...

A multiplayer game like DD2 needs to be friendlier to its new players, otherwise everyone coming in the game after completing the campaign will be turned away. The community will never grow.

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@ChilledFrench quote:


@Nefhith quote:

Good riddance, then!

The gold gain is just about fine-ish. You can use medals to upgrade with that and it's not that hard to get both!



let me guess, you got between 50mil to 100mil from the update? If you're not at zero right now, without any nm4 legendaries or new update items. you CAN'T possibly judge how difficulty it is for players without those update free gifts. you just can't understand.

you get 25 medals from each win, an item what? 100-300 medals to upgrade? what about farming for new characters?

This type of farm is unhealthy for new players...

How is farming in a farming game unhealthy for players? Also, lol at ignoring dailies and weekly quests in your medals. 25 per win is actually a lot. That's an item every eight wins. Already halving the cost compared to gold. 

As for characters... Either you need to upgrade your gear, or you save for heroes. Doing both shouldn't even be hard, as long as you aren't immediately fully upgrading every piece of gear you get your hands on. You get like 2,875 medals a week on average currently. Not including actually completing maps. This can go as low as 2,350 or as high as 3,400. Unless I'm forgetting the ranges for Dailies. Pretty sure it's 250-400, though. And you'll still be gaining gold, so you can even use gold every now and then for upgrades.

Pretty sure the strategy a lot of players had been using is just upgrading to like 20, though, because the way the loot works.

Basically, if you're complaining about not being able to upgrade, why are you even thinking about new heroes? Because that will just be more gear to upgrade.

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@Soulstiger quote:

How is farming in a farming game unhealthy for players? Also, lol at ignoring dailies and weekly quests in your medals. 25 per win is actually a lot. That's an item every eight wins. Already halving the cost compared to gold. 

As for characters... Either you need to upgrade your gear, or you save for heroes. Doing both shouldn't even be hard, as long as you aren't immediately fully upgrading every piece of gear you get your hands on. You get like 2,875 medals a week on average currently. Not including actually completing maps. This can go as low as 2,350 or as high as 3,400. Unless I'm forgetting the ranges for Dailies. Pretty sure it's 250-400, though. And you'll still be gaining gold, so you can even use gold every now and then for upgrades.

Pretty sure the strategy a lot of players had been using is just upgrading to like 20, though, because the way the loot works.

Basically, if you're complaining about not being able to upgrade, why are you even thinking about new heroes? Because that will just be more gear to upgrade.

Farming for weapons, relics, armor, shards, pets, new characters, etc... That's healthy, people don't get discouraged. They see the progression. However, farming heavily for gold and medals just to be able to upgrade items will get new player bored quickly. It will force people to stagnate in a difficulty that they can already clear effectively for a long while.


Before this update, you had to farm for gold too, however you only had to upgrade 1 item at a time. Not an item + 3 shards for every slots... That's a lot of gold and medals to spend on upgrading.

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@ChilledFrench quote:


let me guess, you got between 50mil to 100mil from the update? If you're not at zero right now, without any nm4 legendaries or new update items. you CAN'T possibly judge how difficulty it is for players without those update free gifts. you just can't understand. All these people that progress right now and farm chaos 4 are only able to do that because of the free stuff they got form the new update. Anyone that did not get any free stuff, has 0 gold, no nm4 items and is just trying chaos 1 will probably take forever to even have a set of characters with decent items and shards to even try and complete the first few chaos levels.


you get 25 medals from each win, an item what? 100-300 medals to upgrade? what about farming for new characters?

This type of farm is unhealthy for new players...

A multiplayer game like DD2 needs to be friendlier to its new players, otherwise everyone coming in the game after completing the campaign will be turned away. The community will never grow.

Nope, 8 million, and already at 0. Got new gear, so I'm now moving around the 500k alternating between medals and gold. Also got only 700-ish medals because I bought a buncha hero slots pre-patch (bad decision!).

You get upwards of 300-400 medals a day without putting much effort between challenges and maps. Add to that about 50-ish thousand gold. That's more than enough to upgrade one item and start with another one.

I sold all my nm4 gear because it messed my drop rates, so I kept a character to do chaos1 and started from there.

I'd really like to see you playing DD1 and how the upgrade system works there. Would be fun seeing you try to upgrade an entire set of trans gear or higher.

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@Nefhith quote:

Nope, 8 million, and already at 0. Got new gear, so I'm now moving around the 500k alternating between medals and gold. Also got only 700-ish medals because I bought a buncha hero slots pre-patch (bad decision!).

You get upwards of 300-400 medals a day without putting much effort between challenges and maps. Add to that about 50-ish thousand gold. That's more than enough to upgrade one item and start with another one.

I sold all my nm4 gear because it messed my drop rates, so I kept a character to do chaos1 and started from there.

I'd really like to see you playing DD1 and how the upgrade system works there. Would be fun seeing you try to upgrade an entire set of trans gear or higher.

mana in DD1 was never an issue, drop rates for armor pieces were the problem. You could trade remember?

You started at 8million and now you are at 0... You spent 8 million to get you started, new players don't have that luxury. You probably spent all that money on upgrading some shards that you swap around in new pieces of gear. What if you had to upgrade shards and gear from 0, you said so yourself, one a day for one piece. With your reasoning, it could take up to 4 days of farming to upgrade one item and its shards.


No player that isn't playing everyday all day, will keep up with this on a game that has very limited diversity in its gameplay and maps.

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@ChilledFrench quote:


@Nefhith quote:

Nope, 8 million, and already at 0. Got new gear, so I'm now moving around the 500k alternating between medals and gold. Also got only 700-ish medals because I bought a buncha hero slots pre-patch (bad decision!).

You get upwards of 300-400 medals a day without putting much effort between challenges and maps. Add to that about 50-ish thousand gold. That's more than enough to upgrade one item and start with another one.

I sold all my nm4 gear because it messed my drop rates, so I kept a character to do chaos1 and started from there.

I'd really like to see you playing DD1 and how the upgrade system works there. Would be fun seeing you try to upgrade an entire set of trans gear or higher.

mana in DD1 was never an issue, drop rates for armor pieces were the problem. You could trade remember?

You started at 8million and now you are at 0... You spent 8 million to get you started, new players don't have that luxury. You probably spent all that money on upgrading some shards that you swap around in new pieces of gear. What if you had to upgrade shards and gear from 0, you said so yourself, one a day for one piece. With your reasoning, it could take up to 4 days of farming to upgrade one item and its shards.


No player that isn't playing everyday all day, will keep up with this on a game that has very limited diversity in its gameplay and maps.

Mana in DD1 was useless in the end because the whole economy was so ***ed nobody accepted mana for extremely high end gear anymore.

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Any reasonable player can see gold drops are far too low to support the gold costs now in place. You don't have to be a rocket scientist, just compare how much you get in a map vs how much it costs to upgrade an item.

Using medals means you will never ever be able to buy any heroes, buy any bags, buy any special pets, etc etc.

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@Murb quote:

Any reasonable player can see gold drops are far too low to support the gold costs now in place. You don't have to be a rocket scientist, just compare how much you get in a map vs how much it costs to upgrade an item.

Using medals means you will never ever be able to buy any heroes, buy any bags, buy any special pets, etc etc.

How much gold/medals do you spend on gear then? Because I've been going at it with medals and my total is still rising.

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I've spent 12 million gold on upgrading items and shards and that has gotten me from zero gear (I sold everything after the patch) to farming chaos 2.  I haven't quite finished my progress through C2 yet; I imagine that will cost another few million.

My medals are reserved for unlocking the last two hero classes I'm still missing.  I should get one of them in about a week.  Unless there's another triple-daily weekend it will likely take me about three weeks to get the other one.

@Nefhith quote:

You get upwards of 300-400 medals a day without putting much effort between challenges and maps. Add to that about 50-ish thousand gold. That's more than enough to upgrade one item and start with another one.

Yeah, one item per day.  Now consider that you need to upgrade about ten items to progress through chaos 1 - and that's if you only do optimal upgrades and never upgrade any relics.  So about one and a half weeks to grind through one difficulty.  That seems rather slow to me.  Also you either have to give up unlocking any new heroes with medals or play about 10 hours a day to get enough gold for the upgrade.

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There was a solution to this mentioned a few days ago and is actually being taken into consideration by the team. It was that selling an upgraded item would give you back 50 - 70% of your gold cost for upgrading that item.

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@tdb quote:
@Nefhith quote:

You get upwards of 300-400 medals a day without putting much effort between challenges and maps. Add to that about 50-ish thousand gold. That's more than enough to upgrade one item and start with another one.

Yeah, one item per day.  Now consider that you need to upgrade about ten items to progress through chaos 1 - and that's if you only do optimal upgrades and never upgrade any relics.  So about one and a half weeks to grind through one difficulty.  That seems rather slow to me.  Also you either have to give up unlocking any new heroes with medals or play about 10 hours a day to get enough gold for the upgrade.

Seems just about fine to me. You can always get a friend to go for tower items while you go for dps items, and keep switching so you only have to upgrade half the items everytime.

Do you really think fully grinding an entire difficulty in a week and a half is a lot? That means you can get from C1 to C5 in 7 weeks and a half. 8~9 if you take it slow. Two months and you're into the very end game with 100% perfect gear overkilling everything.

You have weekly challenges, daily challenges, 3x daily challenges, 3x medals and end of match medals. You don't even need to completely absolutely max everything to the limit to get upgrades.

You want an easy game that makes every drop an upgrade to whatever you already have, and that's something nobody wants except the loud minority you represent. We had that post-wipeageddon and it made the game utterly and completely boring. DD2 needs to be grindy to keep players in, and you need to understand that if you want the "always getting upgrades in every match" you should play paid games. In the trials update trendy made it so you HAVE to grind from the bottom of the difficulty ladder so you can't jump straight up into C5, which was a problem NM4 players had (ipwr <300 jumping into NM4).

Pick your gear carefully, write out, or remember how your gear was at 0 upgrades to consider if the new thing you got is worth upgrading, or don't upgrade at all. The game is doable without upgrades.

Trendy finally listened to us, gave us a reason to grind instead of jumping straight up into the end game to get the mostest gooderest gear ever, and people like you who want everything a week after the patch got released are going to hurt the game a lot. I know I sound mean, but the end game and chaos 4-5 aren't meant for casual players who think they can just go in and mindlessly throw a few towers and win. It's supposed to be difficult, grindy and a "filter" to separate those who want a challenge from those who just play for fun.

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@ChilledFrench quote:

you get 25 medals from each win, an item what? 100-300 medals to upgrade? what about farming for new characters?

This type of farm is unhealthy for new players...

A multiplayer game like DD2 needs to be friendlier to its new players, otherwise everyone coming in the game after completing the campaign will be turned away. The community will never grow.

It doesn't cost new players 100-300 to upgrade.  That's just high end items.  

That said, gold drop is a little low atm, but I wouldn't complain if it didn't change.  I've been slowly rising in number of medals and I've been using only medals for upgrading, so the ultra slow drop rate of upgrade items keeps me in the positive on the medal count. 

Also, if this is a big enough issue to actually complain about, I'd say the game is in a pretty good state right now. 

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@Nefhith quote:

You want an easy game that makes every drop an upgrade to whatever you already have

Actually, what I'd rather have is a hard game that challenges me to beat it.  I'd like to spend those weeks thinking of solutions for the challenges the game throws at me.  What I have instead is an easy game that is awfully grindy.  I can do chaos 2 pretty much on autopilot now, yet I can't progress into chaos 3 because I haven't put in enough time on chaos 2 yet.  I think my job is actually more interesting than DD2 (I'm a programmer) and as a bonus I get paid real money for it.

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I'll have to disagree with people I usually defend here. Gold drop is indeed too low. Now, I wouldn't say we have to gain 10 times the amount, but a x2 or x3 wouldn't hurt. The problem is more the gold return we get from selling high end game gears and upgraded items.

Honestly they should scale the cost for upgrades and the gold return from selling with the items' ipw. So a Chaos 1 gear would take less to upgrade, and would sell for less, but a Chaos 5 gear would take more to upgrade, but would sell for more (than currently I mean).

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@tdb quote:
@Nefhith quote:

You want an easy game that makes every drop an upgrade to whatever you already have

Actually, what I'd rather have is a hard game that challenges me to beat it.  I'd like to spend those weeks thinking of solutions for the challenges the game throws at me.  What I have instead is an easy game that is awfully grindy.  I can do chaos 2 pretty much on autopilot now, yet I can't progress into chaos 3 because I haven't put in enough time on chaos 2 yet.  I think my job is actually more interesting than DD2 (I'm a programmer) and as a bonus I get paid real money for it.

I have a feeling you can do c3 if you can do c2 on autopilot, it's just the new mobs throwing you for a loop, or the maps that you don't have a good build for.  If you want I can show you some of my builds I used to get through c3 and I started with total junk gear for c3 (I definitely couldn't autopilot c2 that is). 

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@iAndy quote:

I have a feeling you can do c3 if you can do c2 on autopilot, it's just the new mobs throwing you for a loop, or the maps that you don't have a good build for.  If you want I can show you some of my builds I used to get through c3 and I started with total junk gear for c3 (I definitely couldn't autopilot c2 that is). 

Maybe it's worth a try.  It's not like it would give me any better loot than chaos 2 since I haven't reached the cap of chaos 2 yet, but at least it would be a challenge.

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@tdb quote:
@iAndy quote:

I have a feeling you can do c3 if you can do c2 on autopilot, it's just the new mobs throwing you for a loop, or the maps that you don't have a good build for.  If you want I can show you some of my builds I used to get through c3 and I started with total junk gear for c3 (I definitely couldn't autopilot c2 that is). 

Maybe it's worth a try.  It's not like it would give me any better loot than chaos 2 since I haven't reached the cap of chaos 2 yet, but at least it would be a challenge.

Also, look at every gear and see if it's an upgrade. I was swapping legendary stuff out for green crap when I first started doing c3.  The difference between green-blue-myth-legendary isn't as big as it used to be (especially when you have inconsequential shards). 

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@iAndy quote:

Also, look at every gear and see if it's an upgrade. I was swapping legendary stuff out for green crap when I first started doing c3.  The difference between green-blue-myth-legendary isn't as big as it used to be (especially when you have inconsequential shards). 

Oh, I have plenty of items that would be upgrades.  The problem is that getting the gold to upgrade them is awfully slow and I don't want to spend medals on it until I have all the heroes.

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@Soulstiger quote:


@ChilledFrench quote:


@Nefhith quote:

Good riddance, then!

The gold gain is just about fine-ish. You can use medals to upgrade with that and it's not that hard to get both!



let me guess, you got between 50mil to 100mil from the update? If you're not at zero right now, without any nm4 legendaries or new update items. you CAN'T possibly judge how difficulty it is for players without those update free gifts. you just can't understand.

you get 25 medals from each win, an item what? 100-300 medals to upgrade? what about farming for new characters?

This type of farm is unhealthy for new players...

How is farming in a farming game unhealthy for players? Also, lol at ignoring dailies and weekly quests in your medals. 25 per win is actually a lot. That's an item every eight wins. Already halving the cost compared to gold. 

As for characters... Either you need to upgrade your gear, or you save for heroes. Doing both shouldn't even be hard, as long as you aren't immediately fully upgrading every piece of gear you get your hands on. You get like 2,875 medals a week on average currently. Not including actually completing maps. This can go as low as 2,350 or as high as 3,400. Unless I'm forgetting the ranges for Dailies. Pretty sure it's 250-400, though. And you'll still be gaining gold, so you can even use gold every now and then for upgrades.

Pretty sure the strategy a lot of players had been using is just upgrading to like 20, though, because the way the loot works.

Basically, if you're complaining about not being able to upgrade, why are you even thinking about new heroes? Because that will just be more gear to upgrade.

Because the very nature of chaos mandates the use of a variety of heroes. A certain amount of farming is fine but this lvl is nuts. It just is. Gold is dropped at 1 or 2 per mob when its dropped at all. You can go through the entire campaign on repeat until you lvl 1 to 50 and i would be shocked if you max upgrade even 5 pieces of 30 upgrade armor let alone shards and relics. At this rate, the game will kill off new player after new player. And the only thing you can do to get gold faster is 1 shard that only goes on one armor slot and only gives a 10% of quadrupling gold drop....so thats about 8 gold when that triggers. 

Its just a fact...the update has helped but introduced serious hurdles to the game. And the dailies are no where near enough medals to compensate. 

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@tdb quote:
@iAndy quote:

Also, look at every gear and see if it's an upgrade. I was swapping legendary stuff out for green crap when I first started doing c3.  The difference between green-blue-myth-legendary isn't as big as it used to be (especially when you have inconsequential shards). 

Oh, I have plenty of items that would be upgrades.  The problem is that getting the gold to upgrade them is awfully slow and I don't want to spend medals on it until I have all the heroes.

What I would do is be more picky about what you upgrade.  I upgrade anything even if it's a tiny upgrade and it's not even the stats I like.  I still have a net gain of medals when I do that, and I'm not farming C1 levels (which is the fastest way outside of dailies to get medals, I believe).  Even when I didn't upgrade stuff, the game would still give me armor that had higher stats than when I was using so I would just slowly upgrade that way if I were trying to save medals for characters. 

One thing I've stopped doing though is sacrificing health on upgrades.  It gets pretty bad if you have no health. 

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One and a half week on a difficulty seems just fine for me. Playing for 2 months can get you up to C5 gear then.

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It might be fine if there was something to keep it fresh.  But repeating the same five maps twenty times per day for one and a half week is a bit much.  This is a video game, not the army.

I dunno, maybe I've just outgrown timesink games.  I have so many other things in my life, I don't really need a videogame to fill the void.  I want so very much to like DD2, but if you're having fun grinding and I'm not maybe I should just give up and look elsewhere.

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