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iamisom

Changes Coming to Chaos Enemy Spawns, Siege Rollers and More

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As I've said before, this will change nothing. 80% of the towers will still be useless, it will merely be different towers in each different chaos tier. Towers which are usefull at every tier (the same as now) will still be the most used and everyone will focus on those. Having to switch out your entire build when doing a different difficulty is just a giant chore and pain in the ass, you can use the meta which works everywhere just as good.

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There will always be a meta. 


What's important is that the meta is not the only viable option. It's not atm, so it will certainly not be after changes.

Traps will be A LOT more usefull with EMP and siege rollers out of the way.

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My opinion on the update.

I'm really happy about the new challenge, and that when playing at level it feels like my heroes and defenses must work in tandem, with neither being able to survive without the other. I am personally really loving the Shard drops. As someone who grinded for literal weeks (with a few play sessions a week) for certain passives over and over again as I progressed through the nightmare tiers because my gear just did not have the punch it required. I'm REALLY excited about not having to keep finding the passives I need over and over again.

My problem with the Shard drops is the quality of drops I am getting.

I played campaign to get enough shards to complete Chaos 1, it took me 2 days (with my available gaming time). I had gear from Nightmare 2-3 prior to the update.

Now I can clear Chaos 1 pretty reliably.  However, my current issue is that I'm not getting the new Chaos 1 shards at an even halfway decent rate.

I'm only getting 2-3 shard drops on most Chaos 1 trials. 1 is ALWAYS an unidentified standard shard. 1 or 2 are unidentified Chaos 1 shards. For me over 50% of the time (and honestly it feels more like 75% of the time, but RNG hates me) that unidentified Chaos 1 shard gives me yet another shard from the standard shard list. I'm only getting 1 shard from the Chaos 1 shard list every other map I complete at best, sometimes I even complete 2 maps before I get a shard from the Chaos 1 shard list. The 1 Shard I get from the Chaos 1 drop list might not even be something that I need (something for heroes I don't own, or a play style I don't use). I am fine with certain shards being rarer than others but this really feels excessively skewed.

I feel like I am not being rewarded for my efforts with Shards in Chaos 1. If I wanted to get bags of Standard Shards I would go play Campaign. Please give me a greater chance to get Chaos 1 shards while playing Chaos 1. Only actually obtaining 1 shard from the Chaos 1 shard list every 2-3 maps is a bit too harsh.

My ideas for changing trials shard drops would be the following:

Option 1: Change the guaranteed unidentified standard shard from the Chaos trials to another at level unidentified Chaos shard, while keeping the shard chances and lists as they are. As of now, there is over a 50% chance that the unidentified Chaos 1 shards are going to be from the standard shard list anyway. Between farming Campaign, practice modes, and the high rate the Chaos 1 shards become standard shards anyway the players have plenty of other ways to get the standard shards if we need them, and many of us would like better chances at getting the non-standard list shards.

Option 2: Keep the guaranteed unidentified standard shard, and change the loot tables for the Unidentified Chaos shards. Change the Unidentified Chaos shards to give a 75-95% chance of actually being a Chaos shard of that level. As players we still might get some of the standard shards but would be in much smaller numbers. We would only be getting 1 or 2 Chaos shards per map at whatever level we are at but we aren't getting them so fast that we can effortlessly breeze through the chaos ranks (and they still have a good chance of not being the shard we were looking for).

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One problem has to be addressed still though: If you die one time in C5 and solo it. the assassins will spawn kill you an entire wave long. It is no fun. Really needs something done about it.

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Can we get a shard RNG update. maybe keep the tiers to themselves and figure out some way to knock the RNG gods Down a peg i mean seriously farming chaos 1 trying to get shards i have not seen yet is ridiculous. Glad roller getting a small change, maybe still make traps and auras not as effective against them. 

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Something needs to be done about the absurd rarity of the Deadly Strikes shard.  The reason people play One Tower Wonder builds (OTW) [tm] is partly because the existing mechanics which penalise the use of projectile towers, the other reason is that people have so few Deadly Strike shards that they don't have the flexibility to use a large variety of towers due to the lack of range on most of them.

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@iamisom quote:

Chaos IV

 Berserkers are all about being fast and dealing high damage upon reaching defenses, so using things like stuns and knockups to slow them down are your main counter for this threat. Cyborks counter most of those kinds of effects, so you won't see Cyborks in this Chaos tier anymore.


But... both berserkers and cyborks show up in Chaos 5.  So how are you supposed to counter berserker orcs in Chaos V with stuns and knockups when Cyborks "counter most of those kinds of effects"?

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@Vim quote:

Something needs to be done about the absurd rarity of the Deadly Strikes shard.  The reason people play One Tower Wonder builds (OTW) [tm] is partly because the existing mechanics which penalise the use of projectile towers, the other reason is that people have so few Deadly Strike shards that they don't have the flexibility to use a large variety of towers due to the lack of range on most of them.

Most towers actually have much better shards than the deadly strikes one so it's better to sacrifice a little DP to get the gambit ascension and then use all 3 shard slots for exclusive/better shards.  Once they fix the gambit ascension on some towers, that is. 

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@iAndy quote:

Most towers actually have much better shards than the deadly strikes one so it's better to sacrifice a little DP to get the gambit ascension and then use all 3 shard slots for exclusive/better shards.  Once they fix the gambit ascension on some towers, that is. 

It's not like any of those "much better shards" are exactly common either.  Here's the full list of defense-specific shards I've found in 79 ascension levels:

Boosted Blockade, Cthulhu's Influence, Enduring Bubble, Numerous Reflections, Obelisk Shield, Oily Harpoon, Puncturing Bolts, Torpedo Striker, Volcanic Shock.

Most of those only offer utility value.  The ballista shards could be sort of interesting after this week's patch removes vanguards from some chaos tiers - but IMO ballista needs some form of range increase before it's really useful.

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Considering a shard like Empowered Flame is % based, when you get really high DP, the negative value you get from gambit isn't as impactful and you could put say, empowered flame, destruction and defense rate on the flamethrower and I think that'd be better than using the ranged shard.  I would test it now but the gambit ascension is pretty broken right now. 

I've never really cared for the ballista.. pre-patch or otherwise.  I may be missing something important with it but whenever I use it, it has very lackluster damage compared to pretty much every other defense especially considering its higher du cost. 

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I don't understand what people have against the gambits. The gambits can only have 50 points put into them and in the tower column there is defense power increase to counter the negative effects. By the way the defense power goes up to 999 so far exceeds any negative effects you will get. You just have to decide, do I want to skip some range levels to keep my DP in the positive or am I ok with being -10DP for two more levels. I think people get blinders on and try to focus on just one thing. 

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I guess outright losing something feels worse than simply choosing one thing over another.  Maybe the gambits would be better received if they were instead just plain range increases in the defense category?

It may also be that defense power is seen as such a critical core stat that players balk at a penalty to it.  Would it work out better if the gambits decreased speed instead?

Another thing is that they're of questionable value or just plain bugged on some defenses.  Ramster is the worst I've seen and it was acknowledged by Trendy too.  With a full-on range gambit it gains a mere 6% range, but the DP penalty can mean losing more than 50% DPS in the early chaos tiers.

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Need more maps in each chaos tier.

And, when will we see an extension of the campaign's story?

Harbinger should resurrect the dragon so we can get the dragon boss battle (dracolich) from DD1 next.

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@Some random guy quote:

Need more maps in each chaos tier.

Or more frequently changing maps.  A limited number of maps is good if you want to practice and try out different builds (and let's be honest, playing them in the "practice" mode is a waste of time).  But playing the same five maps for two weeks (and counting) is just boring.  If there'd be at least some new maps every day I'd be perfectly fine with the current number.

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@Chappyy quote:

I don't understand what people have against the gambits. The gambits can only have 50 points put into them and in the tower column there is defense power increase to counter the negative effects. By the way the defense power goes up to 999 so far exceeds any negative effects you will get. You just have to decide, do I want to skip some range levels to keep my DP in the positive or am I ok with being -10DP for two more levels. I think people get blinders on and try to focus on just one thing. 

That most of them give 8 range instead of 50, and noone fixes them.

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@Murdash quote:


@Chappyy quote:

I don't understand what people have against the gambits. The gambits can only have 50 points put into them and in the tower column there is defense power increase to counter the negative effects. By the way the defense power goes up to 999 so far exceeds any negative effects you will get. You just have to decide, do I want to skip some range levels to keep my DP in the positive or am I ok with being -10DP for two more levels. I think people get blinders on and try to focus on just one thing. 

That most of them give 8 range instead of 50, and noone fixes them.

It's been two weeks and a lot of bugs. Lets see after a month. Personally I would like them to focus on the stuff they are doing now or the mob glitching through cades and get to this if they can.

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@Chappyy quote:

I don't understand what people have against the gambits. The gambits can only have 50 points put into them and in the tower column there is defense power increase to counter the negative effects. By the way the defense power goes up to 999 so far exceeds any negative effects you will get. You just have to decide, do I want to skip some range levels to keep my DP in the positive or am I ok with being -10DP for two more levels. I think people get blinders on and try to focus on just one thing. 

I'm the opposite opinion. I don't understand why people are encouraging using those gambits.  They don't increase the range by much and by the time you've sunk 50 points into one, you're now down 1500 defense power (holy crap!) AND you could have put those 50 points into crit damage instead for a whopping 2500 crit damage.


Essentially giving up 1.5k DP and 2.5 crit damage just for a tiny increase in range (I actually tested 0 vs 50 for flame thrower, which is one of the most important ones) is a terrible idea unless you're already so ridiculously high in ascension and/or gear that the DP and crit damage numbers don't make much of a difference, at which point, nothing really matters anyways because by that point your stats are high enough that you can goof around doing whatever, anyways.


With the exception of (hilariously useless and hard-countered) traps and flame auras, the scaling in general of the gambit is terrible for the defenses that benefit from higher range the most.  And in the case of traps/flame auras, you need BOTH that gambit AND the range shard for them to be effective anyways.

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It will be cool being able to use traps and auaras in chaos 1. It will give more variety and relieve some of the boredom of running chaos 1 dozens upon dozens of times trying to get the range shard which never drops.

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The DP penalty from the gambits won't be so bad later in the game I think.  When you have chaos 5 gear and a few hundred ascension level you can easily get past 10k DP for the defense, so losing 1500 won't be so much.  The range scaling needs to get fixed for gambits to really be worth it though.

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@Tiamata quote:


@Chappyy quote:

I don't understand what people have against the gambits. The gambits can only have 50 points put into them and in the tower column there is defense power increase to counter the negative effects. By the way the defense power goes up to 999 so far exceeds any negative effects you will get. You just have to decide, do I want to skip some range levels to keep my DP in the positive or am I ok with being -10DP for two more levels. I think people get blinders on and try to focus on just one thing. 

I'm the opposite opinion. I don't understand why people are encouraging using those gambits.  They don't increase the range by much and by the time you've sunk 50 points into one, you're now down 1500 defense power (holy crap!) AND you could have put those 50 points into crit damage instead for a whopping 2500 crit damage.


Essentially giving up 1.5k DP and 2.5 crit damage just for a tiny increase in range (I actually tested 0 vs 50 for flame thrower, which is one of the most important ones) is a terrible idea unless you're already so ridiculously high in ascension and/or gear that the DP and crit damage numbers don't make much of a difference, at which point, nothing really matters anyways because by that point your stats are high enough that you can goof around doing whatever, anyways.


With the exception of (hilariously useless and hard-countered) traps and flame auras, the scaling in general of the gambit is terrible for the defenses that benefit from higher range the most.  And in the case of traps/flame auras, you need BOTH that gambit AND the range shard for them to be effective anyways.

I currently use gambits for my SGT and volcano. I have positive DP in both because I didn't sink every point in a row into range. I did range and DP then skipped range but stayed with DP. I did notice a little difference but it's not some huge number untill you get a range shard than every point makes a much better difference.

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Just lost in C5 to a random shield geode spawning and bouncing a cannon ball back at my core... this is stupid as hell. Back to using only flamethrowers i guess....

At least C4 is pretty fun with ground defenses.

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@Chappyy quote:

I don't understand what people have against the gambits. The gambits can only have 50 points put into them and in the tower column there is defense power increase to counter the negative effects. By the way the defense power goes up to 999 so far exceeds any negative effects you will get. You just have to decide, do I want to skip some range levels to keep my DP in the positive or am I ok with being -10DP for two more levels. I think people get blinders on and try to focus on just one thing. 

The idea behind gambit I don't feel is the problem... I think its the numbers. The % increase in range each tower gets is vastly different. Plus, the only reason to have more range, is to have more time to DPS in. Gambits give you X% more Range, at the cost of Y% DPS. So long as X offsets whats lost in Y, its perfectly fine. But for a lot of these gambits, Y costs you a LOT more than X gives you, and nothing you're investing points in should make your towers weaker (note, not just a lower damage number, but TRULY weaker). And it certainly shouldn't be lopsided to where its even worse at lower levels (where inexperienced players are less likely to realize what it costs them).

If it was something like a 25 point max, where each point gives you +2% range and -1% Damage, I think it'd be great. But a non constant % increase in potential damage, for a linear DPS dip isn't so much a gambit as a "I chose to nerf myself".

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