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Why are people complaining so much about this update?


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I agree with [[80133,users]]

I haven't had much spare time yet for the new Trials patch (only level 40 ascension) but is great to "feel the progress" having your towers and hero getting more powerful in parallel with your ascension and collected shards.

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@Chappyy quote:

I had 4mil and still can't do c2 reliably. the point is to go around saying I don't understand why people are complaining and tout how easy it is for you doesn't change the current state. You basically had gear to easy mode farm all the lower shards you wanted till your eyes fell out if you needed. You had the gold to upgrade all the needed gear. My point is if you want to tell people how easy the game is and to stop complaining you need to start at the bottom and go to the top so no one can doubt your status. until you make a new account and do that don't judge others that are having a hard time. 

I'm not saying the game is easy or what, it became easy for me because I farmed like crazy C5 and got the gears. The game is hard, but it's possible to get to higher Chaos. It's hard, but that's how it should be, and that's what we wanted (the community was always complaining how the game was too easy). Although I find it a bit hard to believe that some people might be stuck on Chaos 2. I would understand if they get stucked on Chaos 4, or even Chaos 3 a little bit, but there are no geodes on Chaos 2. 

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@mmaakk quote:

I agree with MushroomCake28

I haven't had much spare time yet for the new Trials patch (only level 40 ascension) but is great to "feel the progress" having your towers and hero getting more powerful in parallel with your ascension and collected shards.

See the way you said it is a positive way. You told me about what you like and why you like it. As opposed to being told I don't know why you are complaining I can do C5 almost AFK.

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@Chappyy quote:

sell all your gear and pets on all your heroes.  Start over then when you get to C5 easy mode I will applaud you.


Edit to say that wont matter either unless you don't use any of the gold you gain from selling it all.

Trendy should have wiped before this patch due to it's scope so everyone could judge it equally from each play skill level.

I don't get your point. Like everyone else, I started off in Chaos 3 after the update, and because I got ***ty rolls on my old gears and ***ty shards, chaos 3 was a bit too hard for me, so I returned to Chaos 2. Then I farmed my way up to Chaos 5 with a friend doing duo half of the time and solo the other half. The only advantage I got was the amount of gold I started off with (like many players). But that's normal, TE wanted us to progress faster as a way to not completely lose what our past playing. Earning might be a problem currently and they have to fix that, but you can still upgrade with medals, it's just going to take more time. Besides, a lot of players received a lot of gold the day after the update. I'm pretty sure many received more than me (I received about 65 million).

65Mill would have been amazing.. i ended up with 16mil... and thats quickly running out.. ive been using medals to  upgrade shards... im stuck on C3 solo.. occasional i can build c3 multi if we have good players... so im not getting gear upgrades.. im level 99 no range shards ive decided to use gambits but even that really isnt helping alot.. i cant progress because gear is dropping the same or less level and i dont have enough range for my skyguard.

Im getting real sick of afk building C1 looking for range shard.....

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@Chappyy quote:

I had 4mil and still can't do c2 reliably. the point is to go around saying I don't understand why people are complaining and tout how easy it is for you doesn't change the current state. You basically had gear to easy mode farm all the lower shards you wanted till your eyes fell out if you needed. You had the gold to upgrade all the needed gear. My point is if you want to tell people how easy the game is and to stop complaining you need to start at the bottom and go to the top so no one can doubt your status. until you make a new account and do that don't judge others that are having a hard time. 

I'm not saying the game is easy or what, it became easy for me because I farmed like crazy C5 and got the gears. The game is hard, but it's possible to get to higher Chaos. It's hard, but that's how it should be, and that's what we wanted (the community was always complaining how the game was too easy). Although I find it a bit hard to believe that some people might be stuck on Chaos 2. I would understand if they get stucked on Chaos 4, or even Chaos 3 a little bit, but there are no geodes on Chaos 2. 

You're right the game is hard. I am stuck on C2 and I am ok with that. I don't want to progress in a week. That being said the game has serious issues and you came across as arrogant that you could completed the highest level on near AFK so why are you complaining? As to my point you don't understand how someone can be stuck on C2 because of what you were givin to start with. Had you been not given anything I think you would have found a lot more bugs and a lot more issues that you currently over come simply on the fact your gear makes them irrelevant. 

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@Chappyy quote:


@mmaakk quote:

I agree with MushroomCake28

I haven't had much spare time yet for the new Trials patch (only level 40 ascension) but is great to "feel the progress" having your towers and hero getting more powerful in parallel with your ascension and collected shards.

See the way you said it is a positive way. You told me about what you like and why you like it. As opposed to being told I don't know why you are complaining I can do C5 almost AFK.

Thanks for the complement Chappyy

Just to clarify. When I said "I agree with MushroomCake28" I was referring to the OP (Original Post), where he question people complaining about the Trials patch.

Sorry about the mess-up.

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Is this a serious thread or a humble brag?  Serious question.  Every criticism of the current system is rebutted with excuses.

"The only advantage I got was the amount of gold I started off with (like many players). But that's normal, TE wanted us to progress faster as a way to not completely lose what our past playing."

Yes, there are people who had gold before the path and used it to smooth out the curve but it hardly normal.   You even use the world "Us" to express a difference between you and others.  However, when that others group expresses frustration you pretty much dismiss it. That doesn't diminish the criticism or make it go away.  That just shuffles everyone who either didn't have gold before or are starting fresh now under the carpet to be ignored.  To toss out anything they say because it wasn't your experience isn't a discussion.

There are people having trouble with this update.  That is why they are complaining.  The progression is off because it is not explained.  The method for acquiring shards is absurd.  Now I applaud you for grinding to such a high level to get the shards you need to progress.  However, does that make the grind a good system?  No.  And to summarily dismiss any comment against the current systems because you have personally surpassed them is not constructive to the player base as a whole.

If this game is to survive long term, you have to keep fresh players in mind.  If someone convinces a friend to pick up the game today but is forced to add the caveat "The game gets REALLY good after you've grinded a few hundred levels and gotten lucky with a handful of shards." - it's not likely we've made a permanent addition to our community.  Most likely they will grind and get burnt out, as many current players are facing.

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@Chappyy quote:


@mmaakk quote:

I agree with MushroomCake28

I haven't had much spare time yet for the new Trials patch (only level 40 ascension) but is great to "feel the progress" having your towers and hero getting more powerful in parallel with your ascension and collected shards.

See the way you said it is a positive way. You told me about what you like and why you like it. As opposed to being told I don't know why you are complaining I can do C5 almost AFK.

Lol that was not the way I delivered my message. Me being able to semi-afk C5 was just to say that it is possible, it is not impossible, and that you might need to grind a bit of ascension levels to get there. What I do not get is why people complain when we got what we asked for. Leaving asides bugs and things TE will have to relook at (partially enemies) since they'll fix them with time, this updates introduced what the community wanted and has been talking about for ages:

1. We asked for constant progression: we got ascension. Might have to be improved a bit, but the general idea is a constant progression. We should be happy.

2. We asked for challenge: yes the game is challenging. You can no longer just throw in things you like without thinking. Hardest content is mostly doable for hardcore players. That's a Dungeon Defenders game. The more you put time, the more you are rewarded.

3. We asked for strategy: we used to complain that there is no strategy, so they introduced enemies to counter some defenses (although they'll need to rethink it carefully since it will only work if all defenses have an enemy countering it).

4. Highest rarity loot more rare: got it.

5. Balance: the numbers in theory are a lot better than before (meaning not in practice with some enemies countering them, just the numbers). Once they fix the fact that some defenses such as flamethrowers and ramster aren't countered by an enemy, it will be great. 

Yes balance isn't quite there yet, yes there are some damn frustrating bugs such has the awful leaking, yes enemies need a tweet, but the general direction is a good one. We asked for those changes and we got them.

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@Captain Tight Pants quote:

Is this a serious thread or a humble brag?  Serious question.  Every criticism of the current system is rebutted with excuses.

"The only advantage I got was the amount of gold I started off with (like many players). But that's normal, TE wanted us to progress faster as a way to not completely lose what our past playing."

Yes, there are people who had gold before the path and used it to smooth out the curve but it hardly normal.   You even use the world "Us" to express a difference between you and others.  However, when that others group expresses frustration you pretty much dismiss it. That doesn't diminish the criticism or make it go away.  That just shuffles everyone who either didn't have gold before or are starting fresh now under the carpet to be ignored.  To toss out anything they say because it wasn't your experience isn't a discussion.

There are people having trouble with this update.  That is why they are complaining.  The progression is off because it is not explained.  The method for acquiring shards is absurd.  Now I applaud you for grinding to such a high level to get the shards you need to progress.  However, does that make the grind a good system?  No.  And to summarily dismiss any comment against the current systems because you have personally surpassed them is not constructive to the player base as a whole.

If this game is to survive long term, you have to keep fresh players in mind.  If someone convinces a friend to pick up the game today but is forced to add the caveat "The game gets REALLY good after you've grinded a few hundred levels and gotten lucky with a handful of shards." - it's not likely we've made a permanent addition to our community.  Most likely they will grind and get burnt out, as many current players are facing.

My point wasn't that this update is perfect in every aspect, it was more that some people complain about some things that are supposed to be good. I'm not dismissing everyone who complains, I'm with them on many issues. We pretty much agree on many things here:

1. Gold earning needs to be worked on for people to earn gold a lot more quickly.

2. Shard farming system needs a rework. I suggested in other threads that they lock shard drops to only their specific chaos shard box, meaning that a chaos X shard box will always drop a Chaos X shard. Giving more shard boxes after a victory might help if that's not enough.

3. The grind for basic shards, such as the range shard, is painful and ridiculous.

4. New chaos enemies need a rework to allow countered defenses to be more viable (also all defenses need to at least have one enemy countering it, or else we'll just use the defenses that aren't countered).

5. The loot ipw dropping system is very bad and is really poorly (if not at all) explained in the game.

However some complains might just be unjustified. No, it's not because you can't currently clear a certain difficulty that the game is impossible or too hard, you might just need more ascension levels and better gears, or a better strategy. No, nerfing nimbus wasn't a bad decision since it could cheese the game (they nerfed it too much tho, not defending that). 

And also, the reason why some people received some gold is because they played a lot before the patch and TE didn't want to make them feel that all the time they spent was useless. I had 1k+ hours before the update. I wouldn't be that happy if TE said "sorry but we have to delete everything you have", although I'd probably just regrind everything. It is simply fair that people who puts more time and effort are more rewarded. New players will be able to get up to the highest difficulty with time, and once they fix the gold earning problem and either explain their loot system, or modify it. You can argue that some we received too much, but people who played before should be compensated fairly. Yes TE want to get more new players, but keeping the hardcore players is something crucial since DD2 always had the hardcore fans and veterans to give feedbacks, and a lot of us are spending more money on the game than the average player (not all of us, but speaking generally about the average).

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@mmaakk quote:

I agree with MushroomCake28

I haven't had much spare time yet for the new Trials patch (only level 40 ascension) but is great to "feel the progress" having your towers and hero getting more powerful in parallel with your ascension and collected shards.

That would be great, but that's not how the game works ATM.

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@MushroomCake28 quote:

Leaving asides all the "it's too hard, it's impossible to clear Chaos X" complains (because clearly you haven't played enough and tried enough, I'm ascension level 262 and can clear Chaos 5 semi-afk, except for rollers and sometimes some other bosses), why do people hate so much this patch?



@MushroomCake28 quote:

1. Gold earning needs to be worked on for people to earn gold a lot more quickly.

2. Shard farming system needs a rework. I suggested in other threads that they lock shard drops to only their specific chaos shard box, meaning that a chaos X shard box will always drop a Chaos X shard. Giving more shard boxes after a victory might help if that's not enough.

3. The grind for basic shards, such as the range shard, is painful and ridiculous.

4. New chaos enemies need a rework to allow countered defenses to be more viable (also all defenses need to at least have one enemy countering it, or else we'll just use the defenses that aren't countered).

5. The loot ipw dropping system is very bad and is really poorly (if not at all) explained in the game.

Umm ... question posed and answered?  Thread over?  :D

Seriously though, I'm nebulous as to your misunderstanding.

@MushroomCake28 quote:

And also, the reason why some people received some gold is because they played a lot before the patch and TE didn't want to make them feel that all the time they spent was useless. I had 1k+ hours before the update. I wouldn't be that happy if TE said "sorry but we have to delete everything you have", although I'd probably just regrind everything. It is simply fair that people who puts more time and effort are more rewarded. New players will be able to get up to the highest difficulty with time, and once they fix the gold earning problem and either explain their loot system, or modify it. You can argue that some we received too much, but people who played before should be compensated fairly. Yes TE want to get more new players, but keeping the hardcore players is something crucial since DD2 always had the hardcore fans and veterans to give feedbacks, and a lot of us are spending more money on the game than the average player (not all of us, but speaking generally about the average).

No one is saying that you aren't entitled to the rewards of your effort.  No one is grabbing the pitchforks and torches.  It's just weird for you to keep bringing up how easy the game is for you now after you've gotten over the hump, and questioning those trying to scale the same mountain with less resources.

I bold a part of your quote there because that's an excuse.  No one is mad with what the patch could be once they do this or that.  People are frustrated over what they got.  People grinding C1 right now because that's what they have to do to get a range shard right now are frustrated.  They aren't angry at future Tendy.  People who have to grind lesser gear so they can unequip their better gear so they can start earning upgrades again are frustrated now (assuming they even figure out that's what they need to do).  And saying they will fix it all later and to stop being frustrated because you have gotten past it is, at best, patronizing.

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@Captain Tight Pants quote:

No one is saying that you aren't entitled to the rewards of your effort.  No one is grabbing the pitchforks and torches.  It's just weird for you to keep bringing up how easy the game is for you now after you've gotten over the hump, and questioning those trying to scale the same mountain with less resources.

I bold a part of your quote there because that's an excuse.  No one is mad with what the patch could be once they do this or that.  People are frustrated over what they got.  People grinding C1 right now because that's what they have to do to get a range shard right now are frustrated.  They aren't angry at future Tendy.  People who have to grind lesser gear so they can unequip their better gear so they can start earning upgrades again are frustrated now (assuming they even figure out that's what they need to do).  And saying they will fix it all later and to stop being frustrated because you have gotten past it is, at best, patronizing.

Yes some people are mad at the patch (from what I read on the forum). Of course they messed up some things in this patch, but honestly they have always messed up some things in every patch, often worst than this. Why the overreaction with only this one? 

What I don't get isn't people complaining about things that really are broken at the moment, it's people complaining about the whole patch, how awful all the new things are, and swearing at TE. Yes they didn't get gold, shard drops, and enemies balance right the first time, but it doesn't change that the new concept this patch is bringing is great and is what the majority of the community have asked for.

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So in your last two post you listed things that are not good. SO you know what people are complaining about. My main point is yes there are great things but clearly there are reasons to complain.

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@MushroomCake28 quote:

Yes some people are mad at the patch (from what I read on the forum). Of course they messed up some things in this patch, but honestly they have always messed up some things in every patch, often worst than this. Why the overreaction with only this one? 

What I don't get isn't people complaining about things that really are broken at the moment, it's people complaining about the whole patch, how awful all the new things are, and swearing at TE. Yes they didn't get gold, shard drops, and enemies balance right the first time, but it doesn't change that the new concept this patch is bringing is great and is what the majority of the community have asked for.

I'm starting to get the feeling you are either not understanding on purpose or willfully looking for conflict.  Let's try one last time.

"they have always messed up some things in every patch, often worst than this. Why the overreaction with only this one? "

First off, failing in the past doesn't excuse failure in the future.  Secondly, I clearly remember the wipeageddon outrage.  Everyone losing everything.  A lot of unhappy people.  Then to make things even better, after the wipe they got drop rates wrong so farming anything beyond campaign was nearly impossible (we are taking 2-3 grays on a good match).  And to put the cherry on top, they finished with an event weekend where you had to grind a map for a pet that I'm not sure has ever been offered again.  They also made it so the pet was super rare at campaign difficulties so you needed to farm on high teir maps using gear that didn't drop.  The forums were not a pleasant place that weekend.  So to say this is the only patch with an overreaction isn't really true.


And to hammer the point that you seem to be getting confused over:  People are not mad over the concept of the patch.

A smoothed out progression with rewards for continual play with less rng is a defenders dream.  No one is angry about that.  People are complaining about the whole patch because of what it gives us right now.  Right now.  Not in the future.  Not what it is BRINGING.  What it has brought.  And what it is brought is frustrating to a lot of people.

To be clear, I like the ideas of the patch myself.  But they were not presented at all well.

Look at what I bolded in your own words.  They didn't get things right, but the ideas they brought forth are worth all the problems.  To you, this is the way it is.  To others the wrongs of the now are not mitigated by the dreams of tomorrow.

I don't know how else to put it.

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@Chappyy quote:

So in your last two post you listed things that are not good. SO you know what people are complaining about. My main point is yes there are great things but clearly there are reasons to complain.

Yeah I know, this is thread isn't directed to people who points out only the bad things, it's directed toward people who complain about the whole patch, even the good stuffs. The tone was really bad against TE and insults were flying all over the place complaining about how this is a terrible patch. Recognising the bad parts is important, but praising the good parts is also important.

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@Captain Tight Pants quote:

Look at what I bolded in your own words.  They didn't get things right, but the ideas they brought forth are worth all the problems.  To you, this is the way it is.  To others the wrongs of the now are not mitigated by the dreams of tomorrow.

Well said, beautiful words.

I just wanted to say don't complain just to complain, give feedback about what is good and what is wrong in order to make the game better. 

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I'm complaining because I still cannot connect to the server.  I've been able to run a few maps since the original update, but 90 percent of the time I try to enter a tavern, or a match, or either after any map is complete, I get searching for session then session timed out. 

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@Sekai9 quote:

I'm complaining because I still cannot connect to the server.  I've been able to run a few maps since the original update, but 90 percent of the time I try to enter a tavern, or a match, or either after any map is complete, I get searching for session then session timed out. 

Well, that's a legitimate complain. That sucks.

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