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MushroomCake28

Why are people complaining so much about this update?

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I'm talking about the big update that introduced shards, ascension and Chaos. I mean for me it's the best update we got for a long long time. 

Leaving asides all the "it's too hard, it's impossible to clear Chaos X" complains (because clearly you haven't played enough and tried enough, I'm ascension level 262 and can clear Chaos 5 semi-afk, except for rollers and sometimes some other bosses), why do people hate so much this patch?

The general idea of shards is great. We wanted to separate loot from passives? We got it. RNG to get shards might be a bit bad (maybe lock shard drops to their Chaos specific level would help), but it's still better than passives on loot.

Ascension is great.

So what it is?

Balance is better mostly (not every defenses, but more than before). Geode reflects projectiles? How about you kill them before? Can't use traps because of Cyborks? Cyborks always die halfway for me, so I can use traps near my wall to kill those lady orc. 

So why do people complain? Yes they are so bug and they might be messy in their implementation, but generally speaking, the ideas they brought, it's a huge step forward.  

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I'm sure it's because they believe they've grinded enough pre-update, and expect to do Chaos 5 with their NM4 gear because of the amount of hours they've already logged.

I'm also enjoying the recent update, it makes the game much more challenging and adds more longevity, however, there are cases where the AI just randomly plop over walls, which is infuriating.

What towers/traps are you using? I've tried placing an explosive trap to test on a dummy, with a medallion that has 8.6k dp and a destruction shard, it only deals 15k per pop.. The balloon is also only doing a low 38k per hit, so that also doesn't justify it's DU..

I'm currently only reaching the 5th wave on C5 using flamethrowers, frostys, squire dummies and SGT. Something always goes awry as soon as the last wave starts..


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We expect you to do c5 in c5 gear. Its the final end game content it should be hard at first.

Ramsters, pdts (yes the nerfed version) and snaking sands are a easy combo in c5, using c4 medallions (7400 dpwr) you should be able to do round 2/3 of c5 farming new green and blue drops from bosses until you have a few c5 medallions that upgrade to 11k dpwr.


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Well I think it's largely because the difficulty of the game is drastically increased for peoiple right at the start of the update launch.

TBH, I think everyone forgets the time from DD1 when you had to play a late Nightmare map and lose after the first wave over and over just to get gear to do the other maps. Losing a few times to make progress should be expected. I think it's mostly people are used to the game being too easy. So even though I've been seeing people ask for it to be harder, it got a LOT harder for many people and caught them totally off guard, because they were probably kicking arse before.

I think people shouldn't forget, as well, that there's no cap to Ascension. While it's not going to replace all the passive effects that your gear will end up with, if you are close to clearing a map, a few more ascension levels may give that little edge you need to break through.

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I havent noticed that people are complaining so much about the trials update, but the 19.2 patch was a piece of crap.

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@Alhanalem quote:

Well I think it's largely because the difficulty of the game is drastically increased for peoiple right at the start of the update launch.

TBH, I think everyone forgets the time from DD1 when you had to play a late Nightmare map and lose after the first wave over and over just to get gear to do the other maps. Losing a few times to make progress should be expected. I think it's mostly people are used to the game being too easy. So even though I've been seeing people ask for it to be harder, it got a LOT harder for many people and caught them totally off guard, because they were probably kicking arse before.

I think people shouldn't forget, as well, that there's no cap to Ascension. While it's not going to replace all the passive effects that your gear will end up with, if you are close to clearing a map, a few more ascension levels may give that little edge you need to break through.

I think it's more that people are upset that the balance has essentially pigeonholed them into using a small set of towers, making the majority overwhelmingly useless.  That, and the significant increase to grind, like having to upgrade your gear with exorbitant amounts of gold in order to see an upgrade.  For example, grinding out C1 which is essentially afkable for me because I need those range shards is not particularly fun.  I would rather be making progress.

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@Valthejean quote:


I think it's more that people are upset that the balance has essentially pigeonholed them into using a small set of towers, making the majority overwhelmingly useless.  That, and the significant increase to grind, like having to upgrade your gear with exorbitant amounts of gold in order to see an upgrade.  For example, grinding out C1 which is essentially afkable for me because I need those range shards is not particularly fun.  I would rather be making progress.

by the time you finally grind it out you may already have enough gambit points that you won't need it, unless you wanna go ramsters :P

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It's easy for someone to say that the update isn't hard when they got into the patch with countless nm4 legendaries and 100mil gold, while you can upgrade every piece of gear that you loot and progress at an unnatural rate... When you don't fall into that category, you realize that you need to win 20 maps at chaos 3 (that's right 20) to upgrade 1 piece of gear. They on average cost 200k gold to upgrade. At the same time, you only get decent upgrades once you actually clear chaos 4 on a regular basis. This update is ridiculous for average and new players.


However, people that started with 100 pieces of nm4 legendaries and 100mil gold don't understand why people complain....

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The game isn't so much hard just that the 19.2 patch made the game more shallow, narrow and unvaried. DD2 is basically a one trick pony right now. You do flametowers or ramsters and skyguard for aa, and say bye bye to the rest of the towers. They destroyed the LFG system they spent a year developing.

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I don't think people are complaining about it being "too hard". That's just the strawman argument people are using to negate any criticism of the update.

I think people are complaining that

  1. the update made 80% of all defenses utterly useless
  2. the RNG problems aren't any better and it may even be worse now
  3. onslaught and incursions are gone
  4. whatever difficulty level you can beat you're stuck cycling through the same 5 maps on repeat/shuffle (playing practice mode on different maps is a waste of your time)
  5. the new UI is horrendous
  6. according to Haddad on the devstream, the entire point of this update was because he didn't like the fact that he needed to have 4 dryads in order to use world tree, slimes, hornets, and a DPS hero so this update was supposed to fix that. That was a total failure on Trendy's part, because that problem was not solved. The Ascension system still wants you to have 1 character per defense and at least 1 for DPS.
  7. gear upgrades are gated in a weird unintuitive and unexplained way. Some players have figured it out while others are left wondering why they are able to beat Chaos IV but every drop is complete trash and can't find any upgrades at all.
  8. clearing high level content is not rewarding - even if you can beat chaos 4 or chaos 5 trials you more often than not find nothing but trash items and campaign level shards

There are many problems with this update that have nothing to do with "it's too hard"

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@In.Session quote:

by the time you finally grind it out you may already have enough gambit points that you won't need it, unless you wanna go ramsters :P

I do use ramsters, yeah, in addition to flamethrowers.  But that kind of makes my point about the grindiness.  It's not really enjoyable to keep grinding out stuff that I mastered on the first day.  I'd like to move up to C3 or 4, but I either have to keep grinding out exp for ascension points or range shards.  It wouldn't be a problem if I were struggling with C1, it would make sense then as I haven't mastered it.  But if the only thing I'm needed for is siege rollers, I think it's safe to say I shouldn't need to play that tier anymore.

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I thought before the patch came along our NM4 gear was going to be equal to Chaos 1 gear. 

This way we could start from C1 and go up the levels collecting shards along the way. 

I certainly didn't expect to have gear as good as C3 and my heros were over geared for C1. 

So playing C1 over and over for the range shard is boring which leads me onto the next point:


Like I have said in other posts I am disappointed in defense range. Without range too many defenses can't be used effectively. Worst offenders are the cannon, ballista, harpies, explosive traps amongst some others.


I echo what the person above said that we are pigeon holed into using certain defenses. After the patch yesterday I am using more flamethrowers, frosties, snake towers instead of Nimbus everywhere. 

I would like to try using other towers, but the range is terrible, even if the new bad buys counter a lot of them. Would like the option though.

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Why complain about difficulty though, surely you can do C1.  If you can't do C1 then just join one of the 100 games every minute in it and just get some gear, then you can do it.   Just pretend the difficulties don't exist that you can't do, until you can do them. :P  

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@Stannis Baratheon quote:

Yea right...it's normal for you cus u already farmed all ur current gear and shards before yesterday's patch.....zzzzzzzz

They didn't touch flamethrowers and ramster, the 2 best dps defenses in the game currently.

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@krsans78 quote:

I havent noticed that people are complaining so much about the trials update, but the 19.2 patch was a piece of crap.

I'm mostly fine with that update. I think it was needed, but I agree that the nimbus nerf was too much. I would have been if they left the range unchanged and make it single target, or buff and make it so that we can only use one per dryad (like other 100 DU defenses). The other thing I find silly is the fact that they changed EMB cybrok to be able to disable each time they take damage. That was stupid, but except those 2 things, the rest is fine. 

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@jaephen quote:

 I've tried placing an explosive trap to test on a dummy, with a medallion that has 8.6k dp and a destruction shard, it only deals 15k per pop.. 

?id=880139667

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=880139667 

(don't know why the first image won't display)

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I don't think people are complaining about it being "too hard". That's just the strawman argument people are using to negate any criticism of the update.

I think people are complaining that

  1. the update made 80% of all defenses utterly useless
  2. the RNG problems aren't any better and it may even be worse now
  3. onslaught and incursions are gone
  4. whatever difficulty level you can beat you're stuck cycling through the same 5 maps on repeat/shuffle (playing practice mode on different maps is a waste of your time)
  5. the new UI is horrendous
  6. according to Haddad on the devstream, the entire point of this update was because he didn't like the fact that he needed to have 4 dryads in order to use world tree, slimes, hornets, and a DPS hero so this update was supposed to fix that. That was a total failure on Trendy's part, because that problem was not solved. The Ascension system still wants you to have 1 character per defense and at least 1 for DPS.
  7. gear upgrades are gated in a weird unintuitive and unexplained way. Some players have figured it out while others are left wondering why they are able to beat Chaos IV but every drop is complete trash and can't find any upgrades at all.
  8. clearing high level content is not rewarding - even if you can beat chaos 4 or chaos 5 trials you more often than not find nothing but trash items and campaign level shards

There are many problems with this update that have nothing to do with "it's too hard"

1. Let's be honest, it has always been that way in DD2 lol. It's just that right before the update, the game was ridiculously too easy, so you could place any defenses and it could work. But there was always 1 defense or combination that is way more powerful than others.

2. The idea of shards is going to reduce RNG cause you separate gears from passives. They just implemented shards in a bad way that adds way too much RNG, even compared to before. If only they would lock shard drops to their specific difficulty and the problem would been solved (and make it so instead we always get a campaign shard box, et get a random lower level shard box, so you could get like Chaos 2 shard box on Chaos 3).

3. Yeah sad, but they will come back. TE is a small team and can't do everything at the same time.

4. Completely agree on that one, I'm not too much of a Trials fan.

5. I like it, except for the hero cycling and the moving items, but I see its potential (and it's more beautiful in my opinion).

6. Agree, we still need specialised heroes, but I'm totally for it (otherwise it would remove the point of having more than 1 time a hero).

7. Indeed, they should make it more clear for players. I would be happier if they returned to the old "a certain difficulty drops x to y ipw loot". Just feels more logical when you get always get Chaos X gears if you play on Chaos X. 

8. More or less agree. You sometimes get legendaries and mythicals, rarely, but you do get them, and the feeling of getting a perfect piece of gear is a lot more rewarding now than before (still not DD1 level tho). As for campaign shards dropping from Chaos 5 Shard Box, yeah it happened to me a couple of times and it is very annoying. Might be a bug cause it gives way too many campaign shards.

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I like the update, got me playing again.  Sure there are towers that work better then others, for now.  I know everyone wants everything to work on day 1, that is what I wanted too.  But I realized that I want to progress and get to the final content, get all my people geared, and then I will play around with setups.  In one of the dev-streams they did say this update would set people back some, but once they get some shards and ascension levels it will even out, so far it has for me.  If I have one complaint it is that I can't seem to get Sheiding Guard to drop.  I do however have enough panic fire and press your luck to build a house, minus all the ones I sold already.

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@MushroomCake28 quote:

1. Let's be honest, it has always been that way in DD2 lol. It's just that right before the update, the game was ridiculously too easy, so you could place any defenses and it could work. But there was always 1 defense or combination that is way more powerful than others.

There has always been an optimal build, but that's not what I'm talking about. You could still play without the "meta" before, but now there are only a small handful of defense that can even be used. There's a difference.


@MushroomCake28 quote:

As for campaign shards dropping from Chaos 5 Shard Box, yeah it happened to me a couple of times and it is very annoying. Might be a bug cause it gives way too many campaign shards.

I haven't even loaded a Chaos V trial yet, but I have beat plenty of chaos 4 and chaos 3 trials. I seriously have never gotten a chaos 3 shard, and i've only gotten 1 chaos 4 shard. I am getting then to drop from the victory chest, but literally every single Chaos III shard I open gives me a Campaign or Chaos I shard. And only 1 of my Chaos IV shards that I opened actually had a Chaos IV shard inside.

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sell all your gear and pets on all your heroes.  Start over then when you get to C5 easy mode I will applaud you.


Edit to say that wont matter either unless you don't use any of the gold you gain from selling it all.

Trendy should have wiped before this patch due to it's scope so everyone could judge it equally from each play skill level.

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@Chappyy quote:

sell all your gear and pets on all your heroes.  Start over then when you get to C5 easy mode I will applaud you.


Edit to say that wont matter either unless you don't use any of the gold you gain from selling it all.

Trendy should have wiped before this patch due to it's scope so everyone could judge it equally from each play skill level.

I don't get your point. Like everyone else, I started off in Chaos 3 after the update, and because I got ***ty rolls on my old gears and ***ty shards, chaos 3 was a bit too hard for me, so I returned to Chaos 2. Then I farmed my way up to Chaos 5 with a friend doing duo half of the time and solo the other half. The only advantage I got was the amount of gold I started off with (like many players). But that's normal, TE wanted us to progress faster as a way to not completely lose what our past playing. Earning might be a problem currently and they have to fix that, but you can still upgrade with medals, it's just going to take more time. Besides, a lot of players received a lot of gold the day after the update. I'm pretty sure many received more than me (I received about 65 million).

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@Chappyy quote:

sell all your gear and pets on all your heroes.  Start over then when you get to C5 easy mode I will applaud you.


Edit to say that wont matter either unless you don't use any of the gold you gain from selling it all.

Trendy should have wiped before this patch due to it's scope so everyone could judge it equally from each play skill level.

I don't get your point. Like everyone else, I started off in Chaos 3 after the update, and because I got ***ty rolls on my old gears and ***ty shards, chaos 3 was a bit too hard for me, so I returned to Chaos 2. Then I farmed my way up to Chaos 5 with a friend doing duo half of the time and solo the other half. The only advantage I got was the amount of gold I started off with (like many players). But that's normal, TE wanted us to progress faster as a way to not completely lose what our past playing. Earning might be a problem currently and they have to fix that, but you can still upgrade with medals, it's just going to take more time. Besides, a lot of players received a lot of gold the day after the update. I'm pretty sure many received more than me (I received about 65 million).

I had 4mil and still can't do c2 reliably. the point is to go around saying I don't understand why people are complaining and tout how easy it is for you doesn't change the current state. You basically had gear to easy mode farm all the lower shards you wanted till your eyes fell out if you needed. You had the gold to upgrade all the needed gear. My point is if you want to tell people how easy the game is and to stop complaining you need to start at the bottom and go to the top so no one can doubt your status. until you make a new account and do that don't judge others that are having a hard time. 

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