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krsans78

Interesting patch. Trendy picking a fight? ;)

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  • Nimbus dps has been more than halfed. Probably more along the lines of nerfed into uselessness. It is no longer AOE, but purely single target. It's range has been reduced as well.
  • Radiant power shard has been nerfed to uselessness from 30% to 6% and barely noticable when equipped.
  • Dryad tree has had its mana cost for upgrading increased significantly. It was already a tower that people didn't want to use. The only thing it had going for it was the cheap upgrade cost.
  • PDT nerfed yet again. Base crit % down from 30% to 3%. Reported dps loss: down to 150k from 700k.
  • Updated: EMP mobs do EMP attacks on EVERY swing now. Most of my towers are left in a choma for most of the game.

Concider that at least the top two of these things were the corner stone of the new meta. Didn't take long before that crashed and burned. I kinda humorously named the title "Trendy picking a fight" because many would say that most of the towers were rendered useless because of the way chaos levels are structures with mobs countering them. Now it seems the few towers that weren't directly countered by mobs now have been countered by Trendy.

I think many players will feel that instead of really adressing all the concerns players have had with this patch, Trendy came out of the blue and slapped a wall infront of them. That probably won't feel like a good thing to many.

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So many reasons in the Trials to 19.2 that my family and I have been so disappointed with DD2 that we pretty much only play Orcs Must Die Unchained now.  But... this is nothing new to trendy and they will keep forking people.

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@krsans78 quote:
  • Nimbus dps has been more than halfed. Probably more along the lines of nerfed into uselessness. It is no longer AOE, but purely single target.
  • Radiant power shard has been nerfed to uselessness
  • Dryad tree has had its mana cost for upgrading increased significantly. It was already a tower that people didn't want to use. The only thing it had going for it was the cheap upgrade cost.
  • PDT nerfed yet again. Base crit % down from 30% to 3%. Reported dps loss: down to 150k from 700k.

Concider that at least the top two of these things were the corner stone of the new meta. Didn't take long before that crashed and burned. I kinda humorously named the title "Trendy picking a fight" because many would say that most of the towers were rendered useless because of the way chaos levels are structures with mobs countering so many towers. Now it seems the few towers that weren't directly countered by mobs now have been countered by Trendy.

-nimbus' were a crutch and only a meta for chaos 1-4. 

-Never had radiant power so I cant comment on that.

-Dryad tree cheap upgrades made it the best cost investment wall in the game, not seeing anything wrong with making it equal in cost to the other walls for same DU. 

-PDT was bugged, we all know it. It crit 100% of the time which gave it insane dps scaling.


The big buff this patch is orc trap emp down to 15 seconds from 30 seconds. Making snaking sands even more op.

Flamethrower and Ramsters werent touched so that meta works fine still. 

Also, those mobs that trendy introduced have counters. Shield goblin (cone damage and damage from behind), cyborks (slows/stuns/tower damage), geodes (stuns disable the shield), lady orcs (literally anything but slows), assassins (stuns, slows, CC)



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are these patch notes for real or just trolling? I no longer know what's real and whats not around here.

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Just did a c4 trial, and I barely made it to wave 3, but I know that my setup will fail either in wave 4 or definately wave 5. All of the dps is coming from my hero because my nimbus are left in a emp shock because of Cyborks which do an emp attack on every single swing, and the radius is huge!

Right now I feel a bit hopeless because Im already in c4 gear, and c3 does not offer me any upgrades or rewards, so that is not an option. C4 feels impossible right now, but Im sure a way will give it self eventually. I just lost all motivation to keep playing.

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I think Trendy is very aware of the current balance issues atm, they mentioned as much in the patch notes itself.  This was just a quick hotfix (remarkably fast actually if you look at how much they managed to fix in the span of one week) and they adjusted towers that were functioning beyond what they were supposed to.  While I'm sure people are frustrated at losing things like the PDT damage and whatnot, they were clearly broken.  (Though I'll give you the world tree nerf, I do disagree with that one.)

They're aware that atm flamethrowers and ramsters are the only useable offense.  When they release whatever change to trials they have planned, a lot more towers will open up.  Remember, we don't necessarily use those towers because they are broken DPS wise, but because they're the only ones unaffected by every chaos mob.  If I had to speculate, Trendy will probably go the route of making one of the chaos mobs spawn per lane, and that is a fixed setting (though randomized at the beginning of the map.)  That way, we would know exactly what towers will work.  The only concern I have left is siege rollers spawning in lanes with geodes, where the obvious counter would be traps.  But still, that's a bridge we can walk over when we get there.  For now, while I understand it's frustrating, just hold out until the next change comes.  If it's too much, there's nothing wrong with taking a break until then.


TL;DR - Trendy is aware of the balance issues.  This hotfix wasn't meant to address the major problems, and we'll have a better understanding of what's coming next when the bigger patch is announced.

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The World Tree is still the cheapest Blockade to upgrade. It needed to be fixed, but it should have been fixed to 50/100/150/200 not 125/275.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

The World Tree is still the cheapest Blockade to upgrade. It needed to be fixed, but it should have been fixed to 50/100/150/200 not 125/275.

That is the very least of the worries on that patch list ;)

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@Valthejean quote:

I think Trendy is very aware of the current balance issues atm, they mentioned as much in the patch notes itself.  This was just a quick hotfix (remarkably fast actually if you look at how much they managed to fix in the span of one week) and they adjusted towers that were functioning beyond what they were supposed to.  While I'm sure people are frustrated at losing things like the PDT damage and whatnot, they were clearly broken.  (Though I'll give you the world tree nerf, I do disagree with that one.)

They're aware that atm flamethrowers and ramsters are the only useable offense.  When they release whatever change to trials they have planned, a lot more towers will open up.  Remember, we don't necessarily use those towers because they are broken DPS wise, but because they're the only ones unaffected by every chaos mob.  If I had to speculate, Trendy will probably go the route of making one of the chaos mobs spawn per lane, and that is a fixed setting (though randomized at the beginning of the map.)  That way, we would know exactly what towers will work.  The only concern I have left is siege rollers spawning in lanes with geodes, where the obvious counter would be traps.  But still, that's a bridge we can walk over when we get there.  For now, while I understand it's frustrating, just hold out until the next change comes.  If it's too much, there's nothing wrong with taking a break until then.


TL;DR - Trendy is aware of the balance issues.  This hotfix wasn't meant to address the major problems, and we'll have a better understanding of what's coming next when the bigger patch is announced.

Thats what they keep saying and we keep reading. However, the way it translates into the game is that the players keep getting the shaft. 

You praise the hotfix being quick, but this was no where near an hotfix, but a carpet bombing of a Nerf to anything players found to be working.

Once again, if they're not ready to have things up and running properly, stop applying "hotfixes" and "patches". Do it properly with the whole thing ready instead of promising fixes down the road and "someday" /"Soon*TM".

They literally did nothing to improve game play experience and hit the hammer on everything that worked.

Apprentice wall
Dryad Wall

Nimbus
PDT 

Weapon Manufacturer .

Carpet bombing Nerf.


And guess what, Nerfs are never fun. I bet, however, that all those guys that were fortunate enough to farm shards and gear from C4/C5 are gonna come in here saying "Git GUD!" and "Learn to play " and "Everything's fine, stop QQing". Of course they will, for them everything -is- indeed fine since they're ahead of the curve again, regardless of how they got there ( Bear in mind, kudos to them, after such a borked patch, figuring out how to quickly progress was an achievement on it's own. Just don't mock/diminish those who didn't nor were so lucky.). 

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

The World Tree is still the cheapest Blockade to upgrade. It needed to be fixed, but it should have been fixed to 50/100/150/200 not 125/275.

Maybe fix the range first so that you don't have to have 8 of them if you want to build anything before you go around making them more expensive to have.

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A hotfix that leaves players already on Chaos 4 have to go back to c3 (or possibly even lower) to complete a trial? Isn't it obvious that any player already in c4 gear has nothing to achieve on lower trials except for more shards? I don't know about you guys, but having the possibly to upgrade my gear is an extremely important part of my progression, and if I cant progress, I might as well leave. How is that a hotfix? Stopping players leaving because the game is broken sounds like a situation that warrants a hotfix. Funnily enough, this was brought on by todays hotfix.

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@krsans78 quote:

A hotfix that leaves players already on Chaos 4 have to go back to c3 (or possibly even lower) to complete a trial? Isn't it obvious that any player already in c4 gear has nothing to achieve on lower trials except for more shards? I don't know about you guys, but having the possibly to upgrade my gear is an extremely important part of my progression, and if I cant progress, I might as well leave. How is that a hotfix? Stopping players leaving because the game is broken sounds like a situation that warrants a hotfix. Funnily enough, this was brought on by todays hotfix.

Apparently the common response for that logic is to "stop whinning" and "Get better/change strategy".

amazing huh?

/s

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@Elyssae quote:


@Valthejean quote:

I think Trendy is very aware of the current balance issues atm, they mentioned as much in the patch notes itself.  This was just a quick hotfix (remarkably fast actually if you look at how much they managed to fix in the span of one week) and they adjusted towers that were functioning beyond what they were supposed to.  While I'm sure people are frustrated at losing things like the PDT damage and whatnot, they were clearly broken.  (Though I'll give you the world tree nerf, I do disagree with that one.)

They're aware that atm flamethrowers and ramsters are the only useable offense.  When they release whatever change to trials they have planned, a lot more towers will open up.  Remember, we don't necessarily use those towers because they are broken DPS wise, but because they're the only ones unaffected by every chaos mob.  If I had to speculate, Trendy will probably go the route of making one of the chaos mobs spawn per lane, and that is a fixed setting (though randomized at the beginning of the map.)  That way, we would know exactly what towers will work.  The only concern I have left is siege rollers spawning in lanes with geodes, where the obvious counter would be traps.  But still, that's a bridge we can walk over when we get there.  For now, while I understand it's frustrating, just hold out until the next change comes.  If it's too much, there's nothing wrong with taking a break until then.


TL;DR - Trendy is aware of the balance issues.  This hotfix wasn't meant to address the major problems, and we'll have a better understanding of what's coming next when the bigger patch is announced.

Thats what they keep saying and we keep reading. However, the way it translates into the game is that the players keep getting the shaft. 

You praise the hotfix being quick, but this was no where near an hotfix, but a carpet bombing of a Nerf to anything players found to be working.

Once again, if they're not ready to have things up and running properly, stop applying "hotfixes" and "patches". Do it properly with the whole thing ready instead of promising fixes down the road and "someday" /"Soon*TM".

They literally did nothing to improve game play experience and hit the hammer on everything that worked.

Apprentice wall
Dryad Wall

Nimbus
PDT 

Weapon Manufacturer .

Carpet bombing Nerf.


And guess what, Nerfs are never fun. I bet, however, that all those guys that were fortunate enough to farm shards and gear from C4/C5 are gonna come in here saying "Git GUD!" and "Learn to play " and "Everything's fine, stop QQing". Of course they will, for them everything -is- indeed fine since they're ahead of the curve again, regardless of how they got there ( Bear in mind, kudos to them, after such a borked patch, figuring out how to quickly progress was an achievement on it's own. Just don't mock/diminish those who didn't nor were so lucky.). 

A friend of mine who was farming c5 before this patch tells me his corner stone towers are reduced to 1/6 or best case 1/2 of previous dps. This includes pdt, flame towers, ramsters and of course the nimbus. He failed the map on wave 1. Of course, I think he will keep on trying, but he has to concider going back to c4 to farm - farm what exactly? Shards? He is already in c5 armor. This is actually GAME OVER for many of us, and I am a tad upset about that.

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@krsans78 quote:

A friend of mine who was farming c5 before this patch tells me his corner stone towers are reduced to 1/6 or best case 1/2 of previous dps. This includes pdt, flame towers, ramsters and of course the nimbus. He failed the map on wave 1. Of course, I think he will keep on trying, but he has to concider going back to c4 to farm - farm what exactly? Shards? He is already in c5 armor.


Exactly. I think many are forgetting what this patch actually means.  It pidgeon holes you even further into ONE type of gameplay while bursting your kneecaps on any sense of farming if you were already there. If you were lucky on the drops while doing C4/C5 you might be somewhat unaffected by this hotfix.

If you weren't so lucky....welcome to the rest of the #scrubsteam being told to get good or get out \o/

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@Elyssae quote:


@krsans78 quote:

A friend of mine who was farming c5 before this patch tells me his corner stone towers are reduced to 1/6 or best case 1/2 of previous dps. This includes pdt, flame towers, ramsters and of course the nimbus. He failed the map on wave 1. Of course, I think he will keep on trying, but he has to concider going back to c4 to farm - farm what exactly? Shards? He is already in c5 armor.


Exactly. I think many are forgetting what this patch actually means.  It pidgeon holes you even further into ONE type of gameplay while bursting your kneecaps on any sense of farming if you were already there. If you were lucky on the drops while doing C4/C5 you might be somewhat unaffected by this hotfix.

If you weren't so lucky....welcome to the rest of the #scrubsteam being told to get good or get out \o/

I highly doubt anyone was unaffected by this. The ones mostly unaffected are the newbies who don't know what the hell is going on... C5 is centered around c5 level gear. It has just been made twice as hard (or more), meaning that even though you have top level armor, your towers now are either completely obsolete because of direct dps tower nerf, or because of emp mobs will put your tower defenses in shock and the ninjas will put your hero to rest...

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@Elyssae quote:

Thats what they keep saying and we keep reading. However, the way it translates into the game is that the players keep getting the shaft. 

You praise the hotfix being quick, but this was no where near an hotfix, but a carpet bombing of a Nerf to anything players found to be working.

Once again, if they're not ready to have things up and running properly, stop applying "hotfixes" and "patches". Do it properly with the whole thing ready instead of promising fixes down the road and "someday" /"Soon*TM".

They literally did nothing to improve game play experience and hit the hammer on everything that worked.

Apprentice wall
Dryad Wall

Nimbus
PDT 

Weapon Manufacturer .

Carpet bombing Nerf.


And guess what, Nerfs are never fun. I bet, however, that all those guys that were fortunate enough to farm shards and gear from C4/C5 are gonna come in here saying "Git GUD!" and "Learn to play " and "Everything's fine, stop QQing". Of course they will, for them everything -is- indeed fine since they're ahead of the curve again, regardless of how they got there ( Bear in mind, kudos to them, after such a borked patch, figuring out how to quickly progress was an achievement on it's own. Just don't mock/diminish those who didn't nor were so lucky.). 

It's not a matter of things being "fine," but that things take longer than you would expect.  Adjusting the numbers on towers takes considerably less time to do than actual mechanic adjustments.  Believe me, I understand how you feel.  I am STILL grinding C1 for ranged shards even though I can practically afk them.  I understand how some people feel about this patch.


And yes, it was a hotfix.  Did you see the bugs they fixed?  There were quite a number of them, some of them rather serious like the empty blank shards that dropped in campaign.  Why should they have waited on changing that?  I'm sorry but people are going to feel the sting of nerfs regardless, and it's better to do it now rather than later.  The longer people go sticking to a broken thing like PDTs the worse it feels when it gets nerfed.  It's better to fix it now and let players adjust.  Not to sound like a broken record, but this is an early access title.  Things are going to change.  Until the game actually RELEASES, it would be better to focus on the game itself rather than "How does this effect me personally?"  Yes, it's frustrating to play right now, but Trendy can't wave a magic wand and make things happen immediately.  As [[4370,users]] has stated multiple times, they're aware of the issues, and they'll let us know when they have more concrete changes in mind.


As I said before, there's nothing wrong with taking a break right now if it's too frustrating for you, I certainly wouldn't blame you.  But as much as I would like changes to appear immediately, it's going to take time.  And if they do it wrong, they'll get more threads like this.

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Well Nimbus is now useless.

Could easily farm C3 prepatch now get destroyed on C2 as not only dmg but also range was nerfed.  As one without range shard i have to plant them so close to the tree that they get nearly perma stunned. 

Time to move to apprentice until he gets nerfed end of week *joke*  ^^

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This is most probably the first of many patches. Maybe they just stated with the nerfs to get it over with. I would bet some medallions that the next few patches will be changes to make other towers viable. And if that's the case, I welcome nerfing some towers to make all towers viable.

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Well, I don't agree on the way they handled it. They couldn't have balanced the towers so that you aren't left with throwing pebbles on the mobs on c4. I feel like I was pushed out of the game on forced leave, and for the devs to do that it must have been mighty important because I thought having customers play your game was the life blood of game studios. I thought hot fixes were to prevent people leaving your game, not forcing them to leave.

I dont want to leave, but I have nothing to do in c3. My goal is to upgrade my armor, and I already have more shards than I know what to do with. The game is not designed to really allow downwards mobility, even though you can get shards from previous tiers of chaos. Well... I've rambled enough, and it wont change anything anyway. What's done is done.

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@Valthejean quote:TL;DR - Trendy is aware of the balance issues.  This hotfix wasn't meant to address the major problems, and we'll have a better understanding of what's coming next when the bigger patch is announced.

You say that, yet most of what this hotfix did was remove or nerf the options available to counter those major problems. That seems... counterproductive to me.


"Yeah, sorry your power's been out for the last week, we'll get that fixed Soon (TM). Now in the mean time, we'll be confiscating all your flashlights and candles."

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@Riyshn quote:


@Valthejean quote:TL;DR - Trendy is aware of the balance issues.  This hotfix wasn't meant to address the major problems, and we'll have a better understanding of what's coming next when the bigger patch is announced.

You say that, yet most of what this hotfix did was remove or nerf the options available to counter those major problems. That seems... counterproductive to me.

What major problems? I totally haven't watched a shield goblin or emp literally walk through my barricades.

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Only shield gobs and EMPs? I've watched Skeletons (boss version), Plaguing Hulks, and ...whatever the one with the mace is called completely ignore my walls.

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I feel like Trendy is trying to get rid of their playerbase, because nerfing every tower and buffing enemies AT THIS LEVEL in a tower-based game is obscene. I'm not playing this anymore until it's balanced in the correct way and neither are any of my friends. I don't really think you play your own game.

As someone that bought way too many of the DLC for this game, I'm thoroughly miffed in the direction you're destroying this game.

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@Deathrow quote:

This is most probably the first of many patches. Maybe they just stated with the nerfs to get it over with. I would bet some medallions that the next few patches will be changes to make other towers viable. And if that's the case, I welcome nerfing some towers to make all towers viable.

That's all well and good, except for some people it makes the game nigh unplayable until those patches hit. They should have held of on the nerfs until they had alternative solutions. All this patch did was take away from the game for a lot of players who now have to wait until they might (because, who knows?) be able to progress again. Other than a few shards I have nothing to gain from what I can clear right now. And those few shards will do nothing for me in the state the game is right now.


Why should I do anything in the game right now? I don't even KNOW (I might believe, but I don't actually know) if there's a reason for me to wait.


This is a perfect example of a bad patch. I'm not against the nerfs themselves, some towers were a bit to good. But without anything to make up for them all it did was put a pause on anything I can do.


In my opinion, what they should have done was either wait with the nerfs until they had a full set of changes, buffing some towers to make them comparable. Or just nerf the towers a bit to bring them down from OP as **** to usable but not gamebreaking.

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@Elyssae quote:

Apparently the common response for that logic is to "stop whinning" and "Get better/change strategy".


amazing huh?

/s

Oh my Lord, so true.  People actually take the time to work around the bugs - which is great - however, why are we doing this?  Because we have had such high hopes that DD2 could live on to something as great as DD1.  

Why are posts so passionate about how Trendy is screwing things up?  Because we love the game.

Unfortunately, this is a double edged sword.  One side is that Trendy gets cut by how upset they make the majority of the playerbase (not really because...) the other side is that we keep supporting them with hours in play time or financially showing we will stick around no matter how much Trendy burns  us.  Trendy has some great ideas but often implements many items poorly.  True to so much of DD2.

I honestly question not Trendy alone but the defense council as well.  How could they have missed all this as the "private / select patch testing and feedback group".  

Truly unfortunate state of the game; why not throw a character wipe at us while you're forking us too.

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