All Walls are super-buff now, what is the point of Orcs?

Much as I hate consolidation, I feel that Orcs need to be 30 DU now, in exchange for a 'standard' HP.  The little bit extra they have currently is simply not worth another 10 DU.  In fact, if the Orc Wall gets buffed, the DU cost difference compared to Ogre Wall will become questionable.  (Right now, Ogre Wall has ~115% more HP at double the DU cost).  I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ogre Wall get buffed a bit, but that's another thread.  Right now, Orc Wall is really out of place at 40 DU.

It hits pretty damn hard with HP+power/speed relic and the vampiric empowerment+destruction shards. I personally think it's not half bad for 40 du. The viper fangs have a CC but much less hp than say an apprentice wall, which I actually don't like using since the knockback is kind of un-impactful and on several occasions has bumped a berserker behind my lines xD

They cost 40 rather than 30 because the Orc still benefits from both AP and DP when using Direct Command. Since stacking both of those is super, super easy now, it makes the Orc the only wall that can put out respectable damage.

Aka the wall that can kill the things attacking it. Other walls can't really do that on their own (Squire's blockade's vengeance damage is limited by its own health; the Orc can do many times its own health in damage). It makes sense that a wall that's capable of defending itself costs more.

@[UMF] Filthylopez calmchaos That is a fair point.  However, the power scaling of Towers right now is such that I would much rather have HP on my walls than DPS.  Yes, the DPS on Orc Wall is a trade off for higher DU, I just don't think it's a good one.

I'm afraid I have to agree on this, Unless orc defenses are made to be 30 du it makes no sense to use them. Javelons pierce them unlike magic blockades, the aim is not to have things beating on your blockades and they dont carry a cc effect.

Hm. Well I'm not going to argue against lowering their cost. I had thought it a fair trade by them having extra damage, but the Mystic walls get to cost 30 and have their special effect that practically allows them to eliminate enemies.

Now I'm having doubts that it really is a fair trade after all.

If Trendy wishes to keep the Orc Wall's unique status at 40 DU, then it needs a serious DPS buff.  Otherwise, it should be brought in line with other Walls (30 DU).

Honestly orcs are in a bad spot compared too alot of walls. People say its the highest DPS wall but well they seem too forget vipers fangs exists which does the same if not more dmg from outside melee range for less DU. Honestly what i think orcss need is a throwback to dd1 where summoner towers could be self healing, maybe make them regen  .05% of thier hp a second too compensate for the lack of cc allmost every other blockade has

I personally would never go back to viper, even with good placement and practice, there seems to be a 1 in 10 chance it'll throw an orc in my backline, especially those lady orcs. Did some testing with Orc Walls - Fortify+Electric Fingers is almost enough to justify the 40 DU cost.

Their aggro seems to be really good too, some lanes only need one where I would need two blockades to keep enemy attention.
I think it's based on preference though, I am a Squire blockade fanboy, gotta stick with the classics ;)

There is a shard for 30% chance for a 3 sec stun per hit on blockades. The orcs are almost the only ones benefiting from it (i tested it on the squire blockades and they dont seem to trigger it), and another shard that gives (i believe, havent maxed it yet) around 5 seconds longer duration on the orcs direct command.

those shards make the orcs practically permastun an enemy for about 15 seconds with the command, while at the same time dealing massive damage.

@Escapism quote:

There is a shard for 30% chance for a 3 sec stun per hit on blockades. The orcs are almost the only ones benefiting from it (i tested it on the squire blockades and they dont seem to trigger it), and another shard that gives (i believe, havent maxed it yet) around 5 seconds longer duration on the orcs direct command.

those shards make the orcs practically permastun an enemy for about 15 seconds with the command, while at the same time dealing massive damage.

Yes but that takes 1. A dps summoner which alot dont like. 2. Alot of mana thats needed to clear adds or that wall will fall under the wave of adds allready attacking it

@Slauter24 quote:Yes but that takes 1. A dps summoner which alot dont like. 2. Alot of mana thats needed to clear adds or that wall will fall under the wave of adds allready attacking it

what? AL is pretty much one of the top dps classes, his single target/boss damage lacks behind others but an AL with full warlock gear (or any gear with ability power) can hold a complete lane even without towers easily by just spamming knight of the abyss and regen mana with primary attack.

with 20% increased knight of the abyss range (ascension lvls), a glove-shard that increases its damage by 40% as well as shards for reduced cost and lowered cooldowns i can reach up to 500k dps with just the knight alone, and thats in a huge aoe radius AND it also stuns enemies.

and for those single targets / bosses where his damage lacks and his manaregen doesnt work well anymore, thats when you use your mana to boost your orcs.

@Escapism quote:

@Slauter24 quote:Yes but that takes 1. A dps summoner which alot dont like. 2. Alot of mana thats needed to clear adds or that wall will fall under the wave of adds allready attacking it

what? AL is pretty much one of the top dps classes, his single target/boss damage lacks behind others but an AL with full warlock gear (or any gear with ability power) can hold a complete lane even without towers easily by just spamming knight of the abyss and regen mana with primary attack.

with 20% increased knight of the abyss range (ascension lvls), a glove-shard that increases its damage by 40% as well as shards for reduced cost and lowered cooldowns i can reach up to 500k dps with just the knight alone, and thats in a huge aoe radius AND it also stuns enemies.

and for those single targets / bosses where his damage lacks and his manaregen doesnt work well anymore, thats when you use your mana to boost your orcs.

Being goood dose nost nessicarily mean its fun to play also also with 0 shards buffing it just c3 AP gear(Unupgraded) 500k dps can be reached thats also single target using pole smash, without critting once id do something like 2.3million dmg for the same mana cost which i kinda doubt orcs beat.