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Max Gear Values by Difficulty


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@calmchaos quote:

MushroomCake28:
C5 Weapon  -  Powerful, Epic, Mythic
C5 Armor  -  Epic, Mythic, Legendary

Ok I just logged on, let me give you the values for Chaos 5 armors (will be initial value / fully upgraded value)

- Legendary : armor 2567 / 3602, secondary 1712 / 2402

- Mythical : armor 2468 / 3465, secondary 1645 / 2310

- Epic : armor 2416 / 3494, secondary 1611 / 2296

I'll need to farm to get the values for weapons.

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this is amazing, great work! havent managed to even complete c5 yet so got nothing to contribute on that front myself though :P

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We did 4-hero C5 today but the loot seemed to be ridiculously bad / non-existent.
We'll try again tomorrow to get some neat drops to add to the spreadsheet.

Solo C5 got too easy so we decided we needed the mobs to be Lv. 2000. :P

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Will be playing C5 soon. 

Friend of mine has been playing for hours now, might have some missing values. 

I'll report back later. 

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[[42624,users]]:
I don't need the screenshots if 
text would be easier for you. There are tons of people peer reviewing the spreadsheet to ensure the information is accurate, if that's your concern.

You can add me on Steam if you want to send them that way. My username is calmchaos3.
Alternatively, you can upload them to a site like imgur.com and post the link to the album with all the screenshots in it.

Whichever way is fine with you is fine with me.

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So I have some very interesting news (if you like math and data, otherwise it may not be as interesting to you).

It turns out that even the primary values we see are rounded up. The kicker however, is that in-game calculations are NOT done using the rounded-up whole numbers we see. Calculations are done using the true number, decimal and all.

Wite got us some data showing the C5 Mythic Orb Primary as 8,315 and the C5 Mythic Secondary as 4,619. If you acquire the C5 Mythic Primary from the Orb Primary, the only possible values are 11,086 or 11,087. The Secondary on the other hand only allows for 11,084 or 11,085. See the problem yet?

Since those values came from the same item, this creates a conundrum that they're both correct but don't lead to a whole number for the primary. If we ignore whole numbers though, we easily get a value that in tandem with ROUNDUP results in a number that satisfies all the issues. 11,085.5 is this number. When worked out and then rounded up at the end, it results in both the Orb Primary and Secondary without issue.

However, only whole numbers appear in stat pages, and we know Trendy always rounds up. This means that while 11,086 would appear as the Relic Primary it wouldn't be the value used for calculating since that would make the Secondary impossible.


I guess the takeaway from this is to never, ever trust the stat sheets (assuming you haven't already stopped trusting them). Always use dummies for DPS/damage checks. Just in case you weren't already.

This also messes with how the growth % variance needs to be calculated in addition to the sub-60 potential upgrades issue.

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I'm thinking there's got to be some relation between the max value, difficulty level, and rarity level of the item, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what that is.

If we start at the beginning, Hard mode Weapons, Epic is exactly a 3.125% increase over Powerful. Mythic is exactly double the increase to Epic, plus 1 (6.25% + 1). Legendary is exactly double the increase to Mythic, plus 1 (12.5% + 3).

So it looks like the formula might be [(Powerful) * (32+n) / 32 + n - 1] where n = the number of steps above Powerful. It also appears that Epic is 1 step up from Powerful, Mythic is 1 step up from Epic, and Legendary is 2 steps up from Mythic.

  • Epic (n=1): 672 * (32+1)/32 + (1-1) = 672 * 33 / 32 + 0 = 22,176 / 32 = 693.
  • Mythic (n=2): 672 * (32+2)/32 + (2-1) = 672 * 34 / 32 + 1 = 22,848 / 32 + 1 = 714 + 1 = 715.
  • Legendary (n=4): 672 * (32+4)/32 + (4-1) = 672 * 36 / 32 + 3 = 24,192 / 32 + 3 = 759.

So far, it looks like this formula is exactly it. The numbers add up perfectly. We're using nice binary numbers like 32 and +1, I would be perfectly happy to accept this formula. But when I test it out with other items, it fails. It's not even close.

This appears to be the exact formula used when you check out hard mode weapons, but it does not work for any other difficulty, or any other item type.


So I'm not sure where to go from here.

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What were the margins of error for your other tests? Not all of these values are from a 0/60 item, so they're going to vary by default; but they shouldn't vary enough to cause big issues.

Is there a different formula that works for the other difficulties/item types?

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Congrats, guys! We just finished all the values, both base and upgraded, for C5!

I'm updating the values we need in the OP now. I hope everyone's as excited as I am. :)

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@[UMF] Filthylopez quote:

It's been great that a good portion of people that aren't busy complaining online contribute to stuff like this, as well as shard lists, strats etc. Good job community, faith restored/continued <3

Agreed. Seeing everyone work together is my favorite part of the update!

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Hello, I just started playing again after a long break. And today I finally managed to beat a Chaos 3 map (on trails), and i even got 2 legendary relic drops. But the stats on those drops are worse than my Chaos 2 relics. I only had 1 hero in my deck with fully upgraded chaos 2 armor and the drops where still lower ( 1k lower than the stats in the spreadsheet says for Chaos 3). 

Anny idea why I am getting such low stat drops in Choas 3? In Choas 2 the value of the spreadsheet is correct for me, and I am getting max stats drops there, it seems like its only in chaos 3.

Not sure if this was to correct place to ask it, but I did not want to start a new post for this.

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@Mas122 quote:

Hello, I just started playing again after a long break. And today I finally managed to beat a Chaos 3 map (on trails), and i even got 2 legendary relic drops. But the stats on those drops are worse than my Chaos 2 relics. I only had 1 hero in my deck with fully upgraded chaos 2 armor and the drops where still lower ( 1k lower than the stats in the spreadsheet says for Chaos 3). 

Anny idea why I am getting such low stat drops in Choas 3? In Choas 2 the value of the spreadsheet is correct for me, and I am getting max stats drops there, it seems like its only in chaos 3.

Not sure if this was to correct place to ask it, but I did not want to start a new post for this.

Keep in mind that the stats shown in this spreadsheet are only the tail-ends of each Chaos. You have to work your way up to those stats. 

They primarily indicate when you can't progress any further in the current Chaos, so you have to start getting upgrades in the next Chaos until you once again hit the stats shown in the spreadsheet. You aren't going to immediately be seeing the next Chaos' max values if you're fresh out of the Chaos before it.

EDIT: But I have no idea why the stats were worse than your C2 gear.

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Like Mas122, I thought this might be the right place to ask for thoughts. I played DD2 for 12 hours today (recovering from surgery). I also had only one hero in my deck with fully upgraded gear, in my case high C1/low C2. I played a little C1, mostly C2, a little C3 (we lost). I only got two legendary items, both low C1 stats, and everything else that has dropped has been junk. I've seen nothing better than what I already have. I even got rid of the pre-update NM4 stuff, except for my weapon. Could that be it, the weapon? I don't know what else to try. It's incredibly frustrating, especially since Chaos 2 is soooooooo easy. I don't get it. Any ideas?

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@soda_taffy quote:

Like Mas122, I thought this might be the right place to ask for thoughts. I played DD2 for 12 hours today (recovering from surgery). I also had only one hero in my deck with fully upgraded gear, in my case high C1/low C2. I played a little C1, mostly C2, a little C3 (we lost). I only got two legendary items, both low C1 stats, and everything else that has dropped has been junk. I've seen nothing better than what I already have. I even got rid of the pre-update NM4 stuff, except for my weapon. Could that be it, the weapon? I don't know what else to try. It's incredibly frustrating, especially since Chaos 2 is soooooooo easy. I don't get it. Any ideas?

You can use your old nm4 stuff thats not the problem.

Hidden ipwr = (weapon ipwr + helmet + gloves + chest + boots + medallion 1 + medallion 2 + medallion 3 + medallion 4 ipwr) divided by 9 (10 if squire who needs a shield as well)

If your hidden ipwr is less then minimum ipwr for a chaos level you wont get loot from that chaos level.

This is applicable to every character in your deck. So if one character is missing a medallion it will bring down its total ipwr below that chaos level and your drops will be lower ipwr.


Using this i have helped a lot of people in game gear up. Its the gear on the characters in your deck thats the problem and usually its because you are missing all 4 medallions on some of them

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I'm not sure what could be going on with either of your drops. I'm still currently in mostly NM4 gear myself, but I'm finding upgrades in C4 that are well above the base limit of C3.

My gear, for reference (all of it is fully upgraded):

Weapon = 2400
Armor = 1400 (avg)
Relics = 4600 (avg)

Those are all from NM4 since I'd been more interested in collecting shards than getting better gear until today. However, today when I went to get better gear, gear with these stat averages dropped for me:

Weapon = 2200  (upgraded to 3100)
Armor = 1350  (upgraded to 1680)
Relics = 4400  (upgraded to 5200)

And those were just the epic gear that dropped.

---

Hm. What about your relic slots? I know that relics aren't supposed to make a difference, but I did have all my relic slots filled with 4600+ gear. I honestly don't know what else it could be.

EDIT: Stuffy got it sorted out. Thanks, Stuffy!
Apparently relics make a huge difference.

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Just a note, but please don't resolve comments in the spreadsheet. I doubt any of you here reading this would do that. I just need to make sure everyone knows that it's not ok.

For some reason, giving the link comment access also gives the right to resolve comments, and I can't make it not give the right to resolve a comment, annoyingly. Anyway, if you accidentally resolve a comment that isn't yours, please click "Comments" in the top right and "Re-open" the comment you resolved.

If comments get resolved by anyone other than the creator of that comment a couple more times, I'm going to have to change the link to view access instead of comment access, so please don't make me do that. If that ends up happening, I would be more than happy to PM any of you here to give your Google account comment access. I'd just rather not have to go through all that trouble.

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@calmchaos quote:

Just a note, but please don't resolve comments in the spreadsheet. I doubt any of you here reading this would do that. I just need to make sure everyone knows that it's not ok.

On another note CalmC, good job on the spreadsheet, just noticed last night that you finished the rest of the upgrade data and added some colour. Kudos everyone that contributed. Now to map the rest of the shards...

Emoji_Squire.png

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@stuffymonster quote:


@soda_taffy quote:

Like Mas122, I thought this might be the right place to ask for thoughts. I played DD2 for 12 hours today (recovering from surgery). I also had only one hero in my deck with fully upgraded gear, in my case high C1/low C2. I played a little C1, mostly C2, a little C3 (we lost). I only got two legendary items, both low C1 stats, and everything else that has dropped has been junk. I've seen nothing better than what I already have. I even got rid of the pre-update NM4 stuff, except for my weapon. Could that be it, the weapon? I don't know what else to try. It's incredibly frustrating, especially since Chaos 2 is soooooooo easy. I don't get it. Any ideas?

You can use your old nm4 stuff thats not the problem.

Hidden ipwr = (weapon ipwr + helmet + gloves + chest + boots + medallion 1 + medallion 2 + medallion 3 + medallion 4 ipwr) divided by 9 (10 if squire who needs a shield as well)

If your hidden ipwr is less then minimum ipwr for a chaos level you wont get loot from that chaos level.

This is applicable to every character in your deck. So if one character is missing a medallion it will bring down its total ipwr below that chaos level and your drops will be lower ipwr.


Using this i have helped a lot of people in game gear up. Its the gear on the characters in your deck thats the problem and usually its because you are missing all 4 medallions on some of them

This cant be right. I ranked up my Ipwr drops using only 1 character with 1 medallion. I think relics are either separate or it only counts the ones equipped and doesn't average in the empty slots.

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Gear fluxuation changed once we equiped the slots and every piece that dropped was the correct ipwr, it may not be exact but its the safest bet, im sure it could work with less especially if all your gear is upgraded but by doing that (even if its overkill) it forces the loot drops at the higher tier for that chaos level. 

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@[UMF] Filthylopez quote:
@calmchaos quote:

Just a note, but please don't resolve comments in the spreadsheet. I doubt any of you here reading this would do that. I just need to make sure everyone knows that it's not ok.

On another note CalmC, good job on the spreadsheet, just noticed last night that you finished the rest of the upgrade data and added some colour. Kudos everyone that contributed. Now to map the rest of the shards...

Emoji_Squire.png

Only C5 is completely finished. Once I'm C5 capped though (currently C4 capped), I can go back and get the upgraded data for the other tiers. It hopefully won't be too long.

If the road to the C5 cap wasn't eating all my medals and gold, I'd do it now, but yeah... At least I breezed through C4 with all my stored medals.

---

Is the color scheme in the C5 sheet ok with everyone? I intend to apply it to the other sheets once they're finished.

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This new system is confusing. I don't understand it. Guess I need a dummy guide for dd2 for better gearing

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