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Mobs ignoring walls...


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I'm not sure if the following words are even helpfull but let's just pretend I can contribute something.

I did stop playing at some point because it was nearly impossible for me to play the way I wanted and cover all lanes before the enemies walk over my barricades. Even on maps like forest poachers.

I see two problems in this matter, the defenses have way more health comapared to the earlier version meanwhile the enemies have more health but still about the same attack damage.

This leads to enemies building up a crowd in front of barricades, meanwhile towers can be too bad to actually finish them off in time. Some enemies like ogres bug over the barricades, some get pushed out of the aggro range of them.

Increasing the aggro range was said to be worse for the AI, so what about a script that leads to make enemies not stuck in each other - a lot of work but could be adapted with invisible walls for the movement on lanes and remodeled enemy hitboxes.

Anyway, the clue would be some sort of second aggro system, once an enemy is in aggro of a tower, it will make others in it's range also focus said tower. Like a pandemic effect. For further problems, when two towers are near each other, the script will prioritise whatever signal it got first. If the enemy got the aggro from a guy on the left side it will attack the left side, even if standing on the right side.

The base is already implemented as the PDT spreading by explosives script. It's still the old bug, that enemies then will get routed to the barricade from the beginning inside their spawns.

Also another problem would be building defenses near the lane and watch enemies wlk back the other lane to attack the once aggroed tower. Implementing a timer or a shut-off zone is one option, would just lead to further, new lines of codes and more possible bugs.

Just a thought: 5 lines a day I was told is proper code work nowadays.... horry ***.

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1 time i have noticed Berserkers ALWAYS ignoring walls is on the Malthius map that single lane.. IF there is a Rollie berserkers will always run past that wall.. its like they are just being pushed past it.

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Do berserkers move too fast to register a wall? We've all seen it where they run past then turn around a split-second later, as though their timer for checking a wall exists in their range is out of sync with their running speed.

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@LikeThatWhenIGotHere quote:

Thanks for all the info and videos guys, it's much appreciated. Unfortunately this isn't gonna be a quick fix (some of these videos are like wtf, why is that happening) but we're actively working on this. Isom would qualify this as an OMG END OF THE WORLD category.

I've stock piled all the videos and they taking a look at it for probably the next major update (i don't think anything is gonna happen for the next small-ish update) but please don't quote me on that. I will deny all such claims.

Just be patient a little bit more. it's toward the top of the QoL list.

P.S.

We've already tried things like decreasing aggro priority on the core, tweaking priority on towers, etc... all of which completely busted the A.I.. So now we're looking into tweaking a.i. of each individual A.I. types and someone mention they're even rethinking core tower logic when it comes to blocking lanes (so you don't need 20 barricades to block off a mile wide lane etc...). So again, please be a bit more patient, the rabbit hole went way deeper that we thought. Guess we should have taken the blue pill.

One thing you may want to look at is if there's some kind of "Im stuck, get me out of this spot" code because I've actually seen a little goblin warp past a watertight wall. It happened when there was a bunch of mobs pressed up against the wall. I saw it happen on the mini-map, he just suddenly appeared out about 2 "feet" in front of the wall and started doing his little side skip towards the core. Of course I went over and killed the little bugger and since he didn't do anything else, I didn't save the replay but now I'm wishing I did. 

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If it helps... I have noticed the squire barricade seems to have the worst time. Ever since I started using Abyss Lord and Apprentice barricades I have not had any elite orc runners run straight through barricades

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@Eclystius quote:

If it helps... I have noticed the squire barricade seems to have the worst time. Ever since I started using Abyss Lord and Apprentice barricades I have not had any elite orc runners run straight through barricades

Same with Vipers and Maw's. 

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@Elyssae quote:


@Eclystius quote:

If it helps... I have noticed the squire barricade seems to have the worst time. Ever since I started using Abyss Lord and Apprentice barricades I have not had any elite orc runners run straight through barricades

Same with Vipers and Maw's. 

Ive had plenty of runners with Vipers ;)... they are probably the worst offenders ;)... they pick up the mob then carefully place it on the wrong side of the wall ;)

Orcs are great.. but there are some cases they fail aswell... but the 1 map in C4 it happens to me (Malthius) i just put a second Orc behind the first and never had an issue since.. they run past on the solo lane if there is a rollie spawn at the same time..

Never tried Squire walls yet.. (no stun shard yet so havent bothered) but i hear alot of people say they are the best for clogging up the holes ;) (i personally think Orcs and Cades are the same size....)

Never tried Maws myself either.. very expensive (well used to be... havent tried since the new cost reduction) someone said earlier they scale pretty badly.. so didnt even bother trying yet..

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Maw could be great, but they often don't seal the lane alone, and monsters will occasionally ignore them like the rest of the walls.

Since you can cover more ground with 2 squire blockades with the same DU cost, maw is nearly useless. The slow/stun is really good, though.

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@LJMjollnir quote:


@Elyssae quote:


@Eclystius quote:

If it helps... I have noticed the squire barricade seems to have the worst time. Ever since I started using Abyss Lord and Apprentice barricades I have not had any elite orc runners run straight through barricades

Same with Vipers and Maw's. 

Ive had plenty of runners with Vipers ;)... they are probably the worst offenders ;)... they pick up the mob then carefully place it on the wrong side of the wall ;)

Orcs are great.. but there are some cases they fail aswell... but the 1 map in C4 it happens to me (Malthius) i just put a second Orc behind the first and never had an issue since.. they run past on the solo lane if there is a rollie spawn at the same time..

Never tried Squire walls yet.. (no stun shard yet so havent bothered) but i hear alot of people say they are the best for clogging up the holes ;) (i personally think Orcs and Cades are the same size....)

Never tried Maws myself either.. very expensive (well used to be... havent tried since the new cost reduction) someone said earlier they scale pretty badly.. so didnt even bother trying yet..

Wow, thats a very different experience from my own O_O

So far the Viper's don't let anyone pass and don't place them on the wrong side either o.o.....

As for scaling, at the moment, with the same gear, my Vipers have almost 1M HP less of a  dif at max lvl VS Maws.

I'm gonna retest the values tonight since I got a new Totem upgrade, but from the several walls I've used, the Maw was the one with the best HP/value :x 

It's super weird that there's such an inconsistency between gameplay experiences O_O.

(For instance, last night I was in a map with a squire being a waller and the mobs were piling up so much on the blockade that started to overflow to the sides . Luckly, the aggro kept them attacking the wall even from BEHIND .) 

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@gigazelle quote:

99% of my losses have been because a single mob decided to scoot past a wall and one-shot the crystal.

ork beserk is the main culprit which i noticed 

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@LikeThatWhenIGotHere quote:

Thanks for all the info and videos guys, it's much appreciated. Unfortunately this isn't gonna be a quick fix (some of these videos are like wtf, why is that happening) but we're actively working on this. Isom would qualify this as an OMG END OF THE WORLD category.

I've stock piled all the videos and they taking a look at it for probably the next major update (i don't think anything is gonna happen for the next small-ish update) but please don't quote me on that. I will deny all such claims.

Just be patient a little bit more. it's toward the top of the QoL list.

P.S.

We've already tried things like decreasing aggro priority on the core, tweaking priority on towers, etc... all of which completely busted the A.I.. So now we're looking into tweaking a.i. of each individual A.I. types and someone mention they're even rethinking core tower logic when it comes to blocking lanes (so you don't need 20 barricades to block off a mile wide lane etc...). So again, please be a bit more patient, the rabbit hole went way deeper that we thought. Guess we should have taken the blue pill.

While you are tinkering with the AI code, bosses stuck at the spawn point do not despawn.  Could you give them the same kind of code for non-bosses that despawn after a certain amount of time?

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@Vim quote:

While you are tinkering with the AI code, bosses stuck at the spawn point do not despawn.  Could you give them the same kind of code for non-bosses that despawn after a certain amount of time?

Why are you talking about stuck bosses ? This thread is about wall aggro.

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@NeedtoDie quote:


@Vim quote:

While you are tinkering with the AI code, bosses stuck at the spawn point do not despawn.  Could you give them the same kind of code for non-bosses that despawn after a certain amount of time?

Why are you talking about stuck bosses ? This thread is about wall aggro.

Because they are talking about tinkering with mob AI, while they are there they can also look at other AI problems.

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@Vim quote:


@NeedtoDie quote:


@Vim quote:

While you are tinkering with the AI code, bosses stuck at the spawn point do not despawn.  Could you give them the same kind of code for non-bosses that despawn after a certain amount of time?

Why are you talking about stuck bosses ? This thread is about wall aggro.

Because they are talking about tinkering with mob AI, while they are there they can also look at other AI problems.

They are already looking at stuck bosses, too, just not here.

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Can confirm, just failed 2 C4 maps in a row from one berserker randomly clipping through my barricades and smacking the crystal. Can we just get a hotfix for this? Like suggested earlier on in the post a bigger hitbox on the berserker would probably do the trick, or have a script checking the location and if they have jumped a certain distance fro that location?. But seriously it's making me not want to play anymore.. Loss by glitches and bugs is not fair on your players Trendy, its a big waste of time for us to be losing to glitches and it's bad for business :(

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@NeedtoDie quote:


@Vim quote:


@NeedtoDie quote:


@Vim quote:

While you are tinkering with the AI code, bosses stuck at the spawn point do not despawn.  Could you give them the same kind of code for non-bosses that despawn after a certain amount of time?

Why are you talking about stuck bosses ? This thread is about wall aggro.

Because they are talking about tinkering with mob AI, while they are there they can also look at other AI problems.

They are already looking at stuck bosses, too, just not here.

I don't need your permission to post whatever I want wherever I want.

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@LikeThatWhenIGotHere quote:

I lost the fight about increasing core health :( . I'll just go lick my wounds in the corner. But I shall not stop fighting!

SImple fix would be make the core die in 10 hits not by damage done but by how many attacks done, meaning no matter what difficulty it is on, the HP will die in 10 hits, maybe more for lower difficulties like campaign if you want.  But this would make it so no matter how high DPS mobs get it will die in 10 hits no matter what.
The amount of hits can be lowered or raised based on how fast you think it should die. 

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@mindlessdefender quote:

The amount of hits can be lowered or raised based on how fast you think it should die. 


yup.  it should have always been this way.  you should have a reasonable amount of time to respond to and correct a nexus attack.  otherwise what's the point of even announcing when it's attacked? 


also, the mobs i've seen ignoring walls all randomly get the dark depression black squiggly line cloud above their heads before they decide to wander past the walls.  is this the graphic for taunt?  if so what is taunting them?

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This is about the only thing i loose c5 too. even if i complete cover a lane i get zerkers jumping baracades alot.

this has been a problem for quite some time.

take unit collision out of the game or what ever it is that forces things to push over walls.

the mobs should auto agro walls any how regardless if they are pushed over a wall.

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