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What the heck do we do between HARD & CHAOS?! (The fresh 50 struggle is real!)


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Hello, 

Another extremely disappointed post ahead, 

Two days ago I started playing again and hadn't logged on since early beta - I was impressed with how many changes had been made and I was really enjoying the grind to 50 - Last night I hit level 50 and played around with shards and ran some maps and found some really exciting items and decided "I'm going to invest in this game" I spent all day looking at youtube videos of all the different characters while the servers were down and then they came back up, I logged on to a much different and quite disappointing game.

See the big difference here is this - Last night I was having fun... Today, I spent 6 hours TRYING TO HAVE FUN.

I was able to do Nightmare 1 last night and I was constantly finding gear that was not only an upgrade but adding exciting flavor and mechanics to my combat. 

Today doing Chaos 1 is absolutely impossible... but doing Hard or Incursion on ANY map is WAY TOO EASY - and does NOT REWARD YOU with gear that makes CHAOS 1 ANY EASIER..

I've spent 6 hours.... 6 hours of grinding, trying to find some light in this patch but all I can safely tell you is that I'm incredibly let down by everything I've seen.

It's a sad fact that I was about to invest my money today... and in hope I spent the day trying to find a reason to and I can't. 

-_- 

On top of that, removing legendary effects REALLY made this game feel incredibly bland.. I'm trying to imagine D2, D3, Boarderlands, really any dungeon crawler/looting game WITHOUT legendary effects and I find myself laughing my head saying "Ya right"... and here I am staring at the joke right in front of me.. :/ 

I sure hope you guys have plan.. I mean, it's only day 1.. The new inventory is "neat" looking.. but that's about all - the clunkyness of having to click > click bag > click again to move a ton of items is a bit.. . . . 2010.. but here's to hoping tomorrow is a better day. 


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Lmao i'm barely able to solo chaos 2 trials(that drops garbage gear 2000 less stats) in full maxed NM4 gear. I was wondering what the poor new people where going to do. I would let you guys leech but the tower defenses are so broken the only thing that does anything in the game is  player dps and Campaign gear dps doesn't make up for the increase in difficulty.

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After the patch I have items that have like, 1.7k to hero damage on my weapon, etc.  Yet I can only barely do Chaos 1 which gives weapons that have like, 500 hero damage.


I know that shards will make a difference, as will ascension levels, but I can't help but think this seems a bit much.  You'd think having equipment that has like, three TIMES the stats of the equipment the level is actually giving you would be enough.  And then you try to do anything beyond Chaos 1 and things get kinda ridiculous.  Though I do still have to play the patch more before any firm conclusions can be drawn, of course.


The whole thing really goes to show just how hard the game is if your defense range bonus gets set to 0 and you no longer have serenity auras everywhere to slow the enemy down (although I already knew the latter from experimenting with and without them, but I still wasn't forced to go without them).  Sheesh, it's like... if you just BLINK the enemy's already across the map now.

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@Tiamata quote:

After the patch I have items that have like, 1.7k to hero damage on my weapon, etc.  Yet I can only barely do Chaos 1 which gives weapons that have like, 500 hero damage.


I know that shards will make a difference, as will ascension levels, but I can't help but think this seems a bit much.  You'd think having equipment that has like, three TIMES the stats of the equipment the level is actually giving you would be enough.  And then you try to do anything beyond Chaos 1 and things get kinda ridiculous.  Though I do still have to play the patch more before any firm conclusions can be drawn, of course.


The whole thing really goes to show just how hard the game is if your defense range bonus gets set to 0 and you no longer have serenity auras everywhere to slow the enemy down (although I already knew the latter from experimenting with and without them, but I still wasn't forced to go without them).  Sheesh, it's like... if you just BLINK the enemy's already across the map now.

There is a chaos 1 range socket that at max increases range by 40%, get 1-2 of those and chaos 2 is doable 

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@stuffymonster quote:


@Tiamata quote:

After the patch I have items that have like, 1.7k to hero damage on my weapon, etc.  Yet I can only barely do Chaos 1 which gives weapons that have like, 500 hero damage.


I know that shards will make a difference, as will ascension levels, but I can't help but think this seems a bit much.  You'd think having equipment that has like, three TIMES the stats of the equipment the level is actually giving you would be enough.  And then you try to do anything beyond Chaos 1 and things get kinda ridiculous.  Though I do still have to play the patch more before any firm conclusions can be drawn, of course.


The whole thing really goes to show just how hard the game is if your defense range bonus gets set to 0 and you no longer have serenity auras everywhere to slow the enemy down (although I already knew the latter from experimenting with and without them, but I still wasn't forced to go without them).  Sheesh, it's like... if you just BLINK the enemy's already across the map now.

There is a chaos 1 range socket that at max increases range by 40%, get 1-2 of those and chaos 2 is doable 

any advice if i can't do chaos 1 yet? :(

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@scrblpoez quote:


@stuffymonster quote:



There is a chaos 1 range socket that at max increases range by 40%, get 1-2 of those and chaos 2 is doable 

any advice if i can't do chaos 1 yet? :(

Max out tower dmg shards focus on non projectile towers like flame aura, flamethrower and proton. Use skyguards 

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Yeah, the gear drops seem off.  Excluding shards, nothing that drops in Chaos1 is going to make you strong enough to beat it.  The progression would be fine if people could scrape together a decent set of gear over multiple failed runs, but that can't happen right now.  You basically need NM4 gear from before the patch to beat Chaos1 right now.


Also, I noticed that the Terraria weapons aren't NM4 caliber any more.  The strongest weapons cost 20 souls at the Wayfarer, and have very low stats.  I know Trendy plans to address this, but right now those weapons won't help you in Chaos1 either.

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@scrblpoez quote:


@stuffymonster quote:


@Tiamata quote:

After the patch I have items that have like, 1.7k to hero damage on my weapon, etc.  Yet I can only barely do Chaos 1 which gives weapons that have like, 500 hero damage.


I know that shards will make a difference, as will ascension levels, but I can't help but think this seems a bit much.  You'd think having equipment that has like, three TIMES the stats of the equipment the level is actually giving you would be enough.  And then you try to do anything beyond Chaos 1 and things get kinda ridiculous.  Though I do still have to play the patch more before any firm conclusions can be drawn, of course.


The whole thing really goes to show just how hard the game is if your defense range bonus gets set to 0 and you no longer have serenity auras everywhere to slow the enemy down (although I already knew the latter from experimenting with and without them, but I still wasn't forced to go without them).  Sheesh, it's like... if you just BLINK the enemy's already across the map now.

There is a chaos 1 range socket that at max increases range by 40%, get 1-2 of those and chaos 2 is doable 

any advice if i can't do chaos 1 yet? :(

Spam flamethrowers and huntress traps and poison dart tower. It should let you do chaos 1. You can farm campaign map (even the very first one) to get shards that gives you decent bonuses too to help out.


But yeah the balance is abnoxious atm and new players have been completely left out in this update.

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Looks like its unclear for palyers that they need to upgrade shards and items.

Some kind of tutorial or quest would be great.

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That's all?! 

Chaos 1-2 don't reward you ANY gear that makes Chaos more do-able or reward you with shards required to go higher... I'm literally stuck in a weird and awkward limbo..

This game is no longer fun, I hate to say it - as somebody who's been around since Dungeon Defenders 1 ALPHA - I can't imagine how this update was rolled out in its current state.. 3/4 of the towers are having issues with upgrades.

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@stuffymonster quote:


@scrblpoez quote:


@stuffymonster quote:



There is a chaos 1 range socket that at max increases range by 40%, get 1-2 of those and chaos 2 is doable 

any advice if i can't do chaos 1 yet? :(

Max out tower dmg shards focus on non projectile towers like flame aura, flamethrower and proton. Use skyguards 

It doesnt matter they will still have to leach there is no way they can dps (the most important part of chaos) with current gear. There is no real progression for new players. 

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Acension levels, grind gold, upgrade shards, farm upgrades on round 2/3 of chaos 1 and upgrade those. Thats the current progression from hard to chaos 1.

Worked up to chaos 3 yesterday and slowly progressing in chaos 4 using the same method

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Trendy even says in the loading screen - Done the Campaign? Head on over to Chaos mode... lol.. . that's a joke right?

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@stuffymonster quote:

Acension levels, grind gold, upgrade shards, farm upgrades on round 2/3 of chaos 1 and upgrade those. Thats the current progression from hard to chaos 1.

Worked up to chaos 3 yesterday and slowly progressing in chaos 4 using the same method

You are either leaching or lying. There are so few drops it is laughable and the drops there are garbage. I seriously doubt you are reliably clearing chaos 3 with chaos 3 gear because lots of people with double the stats are having a real hard time. 

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@Secksi quote:


@stuffymonster quote:

Acension levels, grind gold, upgrade shards, farm upgrades on round 2/3 of chaos 1 and upgrade those. Thats the current progression from hard to chaos 1.

Worked up to chaos 3 yesterday and slowly progressing in chaos 4 using the same method

You are either leaching or lying. There are so few drops it is laughable and the drops there are garbage. I seriously doubt you are reliably clearing chaos 3 with chaos 3 gear because lots of people with double the stats are having a real hard time. 

Bitter much? Theres no leeching atm we are all grinding through this. Get some range spheres from chaos 1, ramsters can pretty much solo lanes and use PDTs for flyers. But if you would rather complain then actually grind the game and listen to any advice in this thread thats your choice.

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He's most definitely lying - I've been leeching Chaos 2/3 for 10+ hours and I haven't found really anything that makes it feel like I'm progressing - Not to mention 1/2 of all games are a wipe because people are also having the same issue.

Now imagine being a fresh 50... . . < --- 

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Range spheres from Chaos 1... . that's laughable - I've done Chaos 1 about 30+ times and never received a single range orb.... 

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Keep farming Hard to get Shards. Upgrade Shards. Upgrade Gear. At some point you will be strong enough for Chaos I. Then farm Chaos I shards, and gear, and upgrade them until you can do Chaos II. And so on.

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@stuffymonster quote:


@Secksi quote:


@stuffymonster quote:

Acension levels, grind gold, upgrade shards, farm upgrades on round 2/3 of chaos 1 and upgrade those. Thats the current progression from hard to chaos 1.

Worked up to chaos 3 yesterday and slowly progressing in chaos 4 using the same method

You are either leaching or lying. There are so few drops it is laughable and the drops there are garbage. I seriously doubt you are reliably clearing chaos 3 with chaos 3 gear because lots of people with double the stats are having a real hard time. 

Bitter much? Theres no leeching atm we are all grinding through this. Get some range spheres from chaos 1, ramsters can pretty much solo lanes and use PDTs for flyers. But if you would rather complain then actually grind the game and listen to any advice in this thread thats your choice.

Full of it much? There is no way you cobbled together a dps set in chaos 3 that enables you to down siege engines in chaos 3. So you are lying or leaching off of others with old NM4 gear. I have done plenty of grinding. I have over 20 ascension levels from just doing chaos 3 and attempting 4. I have spread sheets of numbers and theroycrafting trying to make this work with my guild mates. I would say I understand the current state of chaos a lot better than the average person and that is how I know you are full of ***. It took us about 15 attempts at the first wave of chaos 4 to get a legendary to compare stats to see what the gear was like. There is no way with RNG and the lower stats of chaos 3 gear that you geared a toon up over night to do chaos 4. So just admit you overstated in an attempt to defend the broken progression or just keep lying to yourself and others. 

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@Cautela quote:

He's most definitely lying - I've been leeching Chaos 2/3 for 10+ hours and I haven't found really anything that makes it feel like I'm progressing - Not to mention 1/2 of all games are a wipe because people are also having the same issue.

Now imagine being a fresh 50... . . < --- 

I know, I have done dozens of runs and understand how bad the gear and how low the drop rates are. I imagine he is mostly lying to himself. I can queue for chaos 5 and instantly die. I guess I could say im chaos 5 geared. Look at me guys I am clearing chaos 5!

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This is what dd2 should have been not the early way to easet game it was. This update take your time grind out stuff like stuffy monster said and you can get further each time. This is a suggested action because i took his advice and im doing ok now so he is not lieing. Stay calm and you will make it 

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OMG its a range shard that I fully upgraded after getting the shard from Chaos 1, Find another excuse...


edit: apparently embedded images are having issues: http://imgur.com/a/HzMP2

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

Keep farming Hard to get Shards. Upgrade Shards. Upgrade Gear. At some point you will be strong enough for Chaos I. Then farm Chaos I shards, and gear, and upgrade them until you can do Chaos II. And so on.

I have maxed shards and gear and still cant crack chaos 4 which doesn't drop better gear btw. It doesn't work like you think it should work. The gear doesn't support the difficulty. 

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@Turiangel2014 quote:

This is what dd2 should have been not the early way to easet game it was. This update take your time grind out stuff like stuffy monster said and you can get further each time. This is a suggested action because i took his advice and im doing ok now so he is not lieing. Stay calm and you will make it 

Lol.. So what you mean is - This game should have been LESS FUN than it was?

After returning to the game after leaving roughly on the FIRST WAVE of invites to the game - I can safely say that the grind to 50 was actually enjoyable - I found myself spending 4-7 hours a day playing the game and even wanting to invest - I REALLY enjoyed how it was and I really enjoyed the DIFFICULTY going to NM1 was and even my few attempts at NM2 - The gear that was dropping was REWARDING - The items had neat effects that drastically made me switch my BUILDS and added FLAVOR to the game. 

The game was by NO MEANS EASY for me as a fresh 50 - NOT AT ALL - I think you're all used to having super buff gear and actually forget what it feels like for an Ilevel 200 player because you're all talking like you have no effing idea what you're talking about - I DO - because I JUST DID THE GRIND YESTERDAY!

Sure, they added some difficulty - but there is a difference in adding difficulty and REMOVING progression. 

Hell, you don't even know what difficult is - Back in my day - Dungeon defenders 1 we used to do maps that took us 6 $%(@ing HOURS to complete for our reward/progression - Those games, though hard as hell were still fun and equally as rewarding. (unless you got disconnected). 

But seriously - you guys need to stop thinking we're simply complaining because we don't get how the progression works... I've been playing Dungeon defenders 1 since early alpha and I have more than a general knowledge of how these games work and how to succeed at them - This game in it's CURRENT state is NOT appealing to newer players and is NOT in any way going to build our community.

Sure you can continue to sit there and say that you're easily doing C2-3 (which I HIGHLY DOUBT) - but EVEN IF YOU ARE - 3/4 of the player base IS NOT and the NEWER players that are either returning to the game BECAUSE OF THIS PATCH - Do NOT feel welcome in this games current build - PERIOD - AND - The CURRENT state of progression lacks flavor, excitement, DIVERSITY and lacks a way to GEAR EFFECTIVELY vs the CURRENT difficulty of the end game as a NEW PLAYER.  (PS - You can OBVIOUSLY leech the hell out of c1-2 games but seriously, where the HELL is the fun in that?!!??!!?!?!??!?!) 


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