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What deck are you starting with on patch day?


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@geo981010 quote:


@LJMjollnir quote:

I like how people are mentioning Tower Dps/Hero Dps.. really they dont really exist any more after this patch....

Since you can have both in the one character now ;)... but there will be differences based on how you want each tower instead... so one Squire might have long range exploding harpoons but a second might be really fast ones ;)

With ascension powers and pet stats, it is suspected that there will still be advantages to specialize for a specific tower or DPS type. You can also make longer range/tankier/etc versions of the same tower or DPS build like you said.

It doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as it is now, but if you look at the dev streams some ascension powers will boost specific towers or abilities. And pets are getting "A handful of balance changes, otherwise the same… for now!", so you still likely will have 700 stat points from that which will have to pick what stats you want

Ascension powers appear to go up to hundreds of levels for just one power, so it will take a while until someone can max out all the powers in a single char. Maybe much later someone will get to max AscLvls and pets will get changed, but don't plan on it next week

Actually from what i seen on the Ascension powers you get points in all trees... Or atleast you get point in order ie you go up 1 level you get a point for the first tree.. next level you get a point for the 2nd tree.. 3rd level 3rd tree. then back to the first tree ect.. so specifically again no real difference between a DPS and a Tower build... they didnt show much but i remember 3 tree's.. they didnt go into detail (unless i missed a stream) but if they are doing this correctly 1 tree would be Dps related.. 1 for Towers and a 3rd for general or class specific.

The whole point of this patch was to remove the need to have different builds for DPS and Tower builds.. no more multiple of the same class to fill each role.. you will still want multiples of the same class to build towers differently without having to swap passives all the time.. but only time will tell for sure ;)... not long anyway now.

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I think I'll go with Mystic, Monk, Huntress and Apprentice. But may changed quickly based on how the balancing and new difficulty feel.

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@LJMjollnir quote:

Actually from what i seen on the Ascension powers you get points in all trees... Or atleast you get point in order ie you go up 1 level you get a point for the first tree.. next level you get a point for the 2nd tree.. 3rd level 3rd tree. then back to the first tree ect.. so specifically again no real difference between a DPS and a Tower build... they didnt show much but i remember 3 tree's.. they didnt go into detail (unless i missed a stream) but if they are doing this correctly 1 tree would be Dps related.. 1 for Towers and a 3rd for general or class specific.

The whole point of this patch was to remove the need to have different builds for DPS and Tower builds.. no more multiple of the same class to fill each role.. you will still want multiples of the same class to build towers differently without having to swap passives all the time.. but only time will tell for sure ;)... not long anyway now.

They are definitely trying to allow better building and DPS in a single char, but if you look at the devstream close you can see that there are per tower specific boosts in the different categories. Link to thread and find the video from Yuhaku on second page:

https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/142670/see-comment?scrollTo=1263328&page=2%231263328


It looks like you have separate pools of points for the different groups (Offense, Defense, Utility), so you can't just pump all your points into one power. Best guess is Offense increases damage of towers/DPS, defense increases tower/player health, and utility has other effects (increase poison duration, etc). At least some powers in the Offense and Defense groups benefit a specific tower or DPS ability if you watch the clip. One of the burning powers shown increases damage from the Blaze Balloon and the Oil Flask, so that is an increase in both DPS and a specific tower damage in one place.

SAS points are gone, so that is one less reason to needing multiple builders. The gear also is allowing you to get DPS and builder stats in one char, so another reason down. But pet stats and ascension powers are still going to give benefits to specialize, as least from what we've seen.

To totally get rid of any benefit from specializing, they would likely have to change pets to DPS stats only, and change the ascension powers to DPS/Builder pools where the builder pool has boosts that are fixed based on your Ascension level.

Maybe things change from that devstream, and less than a week to see how it goes. Either way, you may want multiple builders just so you can make tanky or speedy or long range versions of the same tower, and at least one DPS based on AP and one on HD too.

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You know i finally really experimented with ev2s defenses for the first time last night. Shes my latest char class and i got her kljust for the proton beams at first....but her robot manufacter is pretty awesome. Her reflect beams are kind of cool too but were way more expensive and less efficient than the robot manufacter and even that had a rather high du cost. Still being able to fire a nuke is just bloody fun. I hope she gets some balance regarding the du cost of some of her defenses. 

But I'm hoping to start with squire, monk, ev2, and either apprentice or gun witch. Gw is my dpser so if the update murders my 250k dps which it likely will, I'll probably toy with making ev2 my dpser. Ive honestly never dpsed with my monk....but now i can post update. 

Hell forgot about huntress...

Ive got no clue honestly...

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@sgof quote:

If the Roller is still destroying traps...  Then, no Huntress or Monk.

I personally havent had issues with Rollie killing my monk stuff... and Huntress i only use for PDT so thats fairly safe too..

That being said Chaos difficulty is a mix of new enemies as you progress through it.. Rollie might be reserved for the higher end of things.. and we have no idea what some of the new enemies do yet.. it might well turn out that you will need a huntress trap to kill some of the new mobs...

If they do go the way of only specific towers/traps to kill special enemies i really hope they let us know from round 1 where these types of enemies will spawn... otherwise its just a luck of the draw and there will be many fails...


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@LJMjollnir quote:


@sgof quote:

If the Roller is still destroying traps...  Then, no Huntress or Monk.

I personally havent had issues with Rollie killing my monk stuff... and Huntress i only use for PDT so thats fairly safe too..

That being said Chaos difficulty is a mix of new enemies as you progress through it.. Rollie might be reserved for the higher end of things.. and we have no idea what some of the new enemies do yet.. it might well turn out that you will need a huntress trap to kill some of the new mobs...

If they do go the way of only specific towers/traps to kill special enemies i really hope they let us know from round 1 where these types of enemies will spawn... otherwise its just a luck of the draw and there will be many fails...


I was stretching it a bit with the monk...  Only to add weight to my statement.  It is the traps. :(  I love my huntress traps.  Totally useless now.  Well, on maps with rollers...

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ahahaha no no i undertsand some people might use LA and Rollie probably kills that.. i dont LA these days.. it used to be really good fun with Abyss Lord Ramsters(Steam Sphere)

Only a few days to go and we'll have a better idea for sure then 8).. would actually be kinda fun to start using Abyss lord again i guess

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I'm going to experiment with all of them, but I will try the 4 original heroes first (Huntress, Apprentice, Squire, Monk).

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Vanguards

“Prime Scout Scout here. I’ve been scouting all week, and scout’s honor, I’ve discovered a new enemy. They walk about in packs, and the things I’ve seen their shields wipe out...no doubt, we’re gonna need to change strategy.

This has been a scouting report from Prime Scout Scout. Over and out.”

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OG4 all the way. Deleting all characters to start fresh. I want to experience the game as close to a new player as possible. :)

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I'd consider deleting and starting from scratch.. but no real need... i have near 30 Character slots and i know i wont be needing them all now.. so i can safely delete a few characters and start those from fresh...

But it really depends if we will now have the ability to rename/re-order the heroes... if thats not coming then well yeah i might delete em all n start again as alot of my heroes names will be meaningless... Tho i'd be tempted to get a few of the harder to get Shards before i do.. just to make leveling slightly less tedious...

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I don't really understand the question because the Deck is irrelevant. I'll build with all my heroes and once the 1st wave starts my deck will be Gunwitch for DPS + whatever 3 random builders were lucky enough to not get swapped out for Gunwitch.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I don't really understand the question because the Deck is irrelevant. I'll build with all my heroes and once the 1st wave starts my deck will be Gunwitch for DPS + whatever 3 random builders were lucky enough to not get swapped out for Gunwitch.

ascension xp will be the limiting factor, what characters are you going to focus your ascension xp first into? Will you go for a balanced deck or will you spread the xp amongst multiple characters which may slow down your leveling but allow you more build options?

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@stuffymonster quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I don't really understand the question because the Deck is irrelevant. I'll build with all my heroes and once the 1st wave starts my deck will be Gunwitch for DPS + whatever 3 random builders were lucky enough to not get swapped out for Gunwitch.

ascension xp will be the limiting factor, what characters are you going to focus your ascension xp first into? Will you go for a balanced deck or will you spread the xp amongst multiple characters which may slow down your leveling but allow you more build options?

?????... i think you are quite wrong on this one... Ascension XP is not Shared among Characters like that... The account gets the XP not individual characters.. So you level up ascension level and ALL characters get a point..


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@stuffymonster quote:
@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I don't really understand the question because the Deck is irrelevant. I'll build with all my heroes and once the 1st wave starts my deck will be Gunwitch for DPS + whatever 3 random builders were lucky enough to not get swapped out for Gunwitch.

ascension xp will be the limiting factor, what characters are you going to focus your ascension xp first into? Will you go for a balanced deck or will you spread the xp amongst multiple characters which may slow down your leveling but allow you more build options?

Well we don't know how it will work. Some ascension "skills" (for lack of a better term until we see what actually makes it into the update) will be account wide effects that affect every hero you have. Some will only affect specific heroes. We don't know if heroes have to be in your deck in order to spend ascension points on them. Even if that is the case. Even people in the RPG who have been play testing the update don't know how it will work on patch day. In the last update on the news page they said they're still changing things.

Even if each hero in the deck earns their own ascension points that can only be spent on their own ascension skills, that wouldn't make me change my deck. All my heroes would need ascension anyway.

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In regard to spending Ascension points:


https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/142823/trials-report-4-release-date

Ascension Points are invested on a per-hero basis in Ascension Powers that bestow additional bonuses and augmentations.

and

https://youtu.be/LO3ymkQzBMQ?t=40m

"Will Ascension be account-wide or hero? If you have say one Ascension point to spend, do you have one for each hero to spend or is it one total per account that you need to select which hero to spend it on?"

The level becomes account-wide, and the points you earn can be spent on each hero in the deck. So let's say you gain one Ascension point. Each hero in your deck can spend one Ascension point.


When our account acquires an Ascension point, every single hero we own gets a single point to spend individually. I was recently corrected on this aspect myself. :)

I had assumed that it was going to work like you get a point, spend it on a hero type (as in spend it on Apprentice), and then whatever you spent it on was active on all your Apprentices, but it appears that is not the case. If they were to go that route, there'd be no need to buy hero slots anymore. 

With the system they're using instead, we'd still need multiple copies of a hero to use them as both a dps and a builder. While the hero damage disparity won't be absolutely massive so as to prevent builders from being any help against bosses like in our current system, dedicated dps' and builders will still be better.

EDIT: Unless they've changed their minds recently, this is how it works. We'll find out tomorrow when the devstream happens.

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@calmchaos quote:

In regard to spending Ascension points:


https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/142823/trials-report-4-release-date

Ascension Points are invested on a per-hero basis in Ascension Powers that bestow additional bonuses and augmentations.

and

https://youtu.be/LO3ymkQzBMQ?t=40m

"Will Ascension be account-wide or hero? If you have say one Ascension point to spend, do you have one for each hero to spend or is it one total per account that you need to select which hero to spend it on?"

The level becomes account-wide, and the points you earn can be spent on each hero in the deck. So let's say you gain one Ascension point. Each hero in your deck can spend one Ascension point.


When our account acquires an Ascension point, every single hero we own gets a single point to spend individually. I was recently corrected on this aspect myself. :)

I had assumed that it was going to work like you get a point, spend it on a hero type (as in spend it on Apprentice), and then whatever you spent it on was active on all your Apprentices, but it appears that is not the case. If they were to go that route, there'd be no need to buy hero slots anymore. 

With the system they're using instead, we'd still need multiple copies of a hero to use them as both a dps and a builder. While the hero damage disparity won't be absolutely massive so as to prevent builders from being any help against bosses like in our current system, dedicated dps' and builders will still be better.

EDIT: Unless they've changed their minds recently, this is how it works. We'll find out tomorrow when the devstream happens.

hmmm now I have a issue, I recently deleted 30 characters (kept 20, 2 of each) because loading times were way too long and they had this upcoming change, but reallly it sounds like even though eventually with enough ascension xp one character could build every tower with full point investment, it makes more sense to have 4 of each character still with 1 dedicated to each tower type. So I now need to decide if I want to level those 30 characters back up and just deal with the loading lag.


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@stuffymonster quote:


 -snip-

hmmm now I have a issue, I recently deleted 30 characters (kept 20, 2 of each) because loading times were way too long and they had this upcoming change, but reallly it sounds like even though eventually with enough ascension xp one character could build every tower with full point investment, it makes more sense to have 4 of each character still with 1 dedicated to each tower type. So I now need to decide if I want to level those 30 characters back up and just deal with the loading lag.


Oh. D:

Maybe having 3 shards dedicated to each defense as well as specialized stat choices via gear will help prevent the need to max out a defense in Ascension? 

At least until Chaos 5/the last Chaos tier currently available. I'd imagine that up until Chaos 4, decently Ascended defenses won't be absolutely mandatory and that just highly upgraded good shard choices can carry you there. Ascension is meant to be a very long term system after all, so my guess is that the higher upgrades in Ascension are primarily aimed at later Chaos tiers rather than the coming Chaos 5.

The only thing I'm fairly certain of is that Chaos 5 won't be balanced around having max Ascended defenses. That is unless Trendy intends to put soft caps on Ascension that they're going to raise as new Chaos tiers are released. Then of course they would balance Chaos 5 around the current Ascension soft cap.

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Just a little update to some of my previous comments in this thread that I think deserve a double post to edit in:

Going by the latest devstream, they did indeed change Ascension up a little from their previous iterations. The Ascension points we acquire are allocated to specific roles in a specific cycle of DPS -> Defense -> Utility -> DPS -> etc. Meaning that we no longer have dedicated DPS or builders. *happy face*

However, what this now means is that each of our heroes are now going to have to specialize in both a specific ability and defense for each hero until we accumulate enough points to allocate points into multiple defenses and abilities without making too many sacrifices. It's the best of both worlds in regard to hero slots being useful and the DPS+Builder dream.

---

From what they told us about Chaos 5, we may indeed need pretty highly Ascended defenses to get through it. Their intention for Chaos 5 is for it to be nigh impossible when the update drops, and if it's not then they intend to buff it. Although the buffing part of their statement may have been a joke, but I'd say it's something they're definitely willing to do if they feel it's too easy.

---

Aaaanyway, continue deck discussions. I just wanted to correct my statements that the devstream invalidated.

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