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The exact solution is "git gud" or do what others do and avoid it until they can do it. The fact that with Steam players of all ages will just give up when the going gets a little tough does point to a change in mindset.

Do you play for a challenge, or for a mindless bit of entertainment.

I hope they don't nerf the roller due to all the moaning and groaning, it is the one thing that can require a modicum of strategy. However I am seeing more and more the poor Roller gets butchered in seconds now.

Hang on maybe it should be buffed Emoji_Ogre.png

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-Rollers make the game less fun period.  They barely add difficulty, but they do add frustration.  "Oh hey, lets shoot this random missile at your crystal!  Game over at no fault of yours."  "Hey let's make the weakest defenses even weaker!".  

-Frustration is not synonymous with difficulty.  If frustration was the same as difficulty, then let's "increase difficulty by getting rid of bags."  

-The roller is limiting.  Easy to kill, but makes many defenses bad.

-The roller is bugged as all get out.

-The roller was not a good decision.  Build a big statue of the roller, put it in the town, and have a Gravestone for it.


If you wanted a defense that was painful to towers, just give the ogres a big ol shield.  All incomming damage from the front is reduced 90%.  Everything else would be the same.  Here is similar difficulty, very little development work, doesn't make towers useless.  Its absurd I have to specify this in every roller post, I do not have trouble killing the roller.  I do however try to avoid maps that have rollers because they are not fun.

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I think my problem with the roller is that it is essentially three very good mobs clumped into one very overkill mob.  If you look at the elements the roller has, they're all very good:

1-A "shield" from the front forcing the player to hit its weak spot

2- Rockets which seek out the player and force them to stay off their defenses

3- A slow moving roller which destroys traps and auras it walks over.


If each of these three elements were put into smaller, manageable mobs, there wouldn't be a problem.  The problem is that it is all three of these things at once AND is a damage sponge.  If I were Trendy, I would remove the weakspot part of it and the rockets, and reduce its health dramatically so that it can be bursted down, something similar to the crystal beasts as an anti-trap mob.  Then I would take the rocket element and put it as a new goblin rocketeer mob that sits far outside defense ranges and chucks missiles at the player.  Then I would make some sort of shield-carrying mob that can only be hit from the back.  I'm all for more engaging combat, but the roller as it stands is just too much overkill.

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Let's also not forget you can always play maps without rollers which give top-tier iPWR gear. I keep doing huntress traps builds every now and then and they work just fine.

@Axianamos quote:

Huntress towers are all completly useless aside from the massivly overpowered PDT. 

They're not, since you can just slap them in the end of the lane and kill the roller before he gets to them. You said is yourself. You can handle 3 of them without a problem. I can also handle my traps being blown up from time to time. Adds some frenetic emotion to the game. I like it.

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@Nefhith quote:

Let's also not forget you can always play maps without rollers which give top-tier iPWR gear. I keep doing huntress traps builds every now and then and they work just fine.

@Axianamos quote:

Huntress towers are all completly useless aside from the massivly overpowered PDT. 

They're not, since you can just slap them in the end of the lane and kill the roller before he gets to them. You said is yourself. You can handle 3 of them without a problem. I can also handle my traps being blown up from time to time. Adds some frenetic emotion to the game. I like it.

There are very few maps that the siege rollers don't show up on. Seriously man, look at the game a little more next time. The only map I can think of right off the top of my head is the Harbinger's Airship.


And that's the problem. They show up almost everywhere and proceed to ruin the game for you.

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Demons Lair Incursion

Forest Poachers Incursion

Buried bastille Incursion

Wyvern Enthusiasts Incursion

Altar of Athame Incursion

Chrome Enemies only have one ogre\Roller spawn so easy to target your build.

Rollers only turn right so on catacombs you can target your wall build, should rollers spawn.

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@Fozzie quote:

Demons Lair Incursion

Forest Poachers Incursion

Buried bastille Incursion

Wyvern Enthusiasts Incursion

Those are not only incursions, but only 4 maps, out of like 25 or more. So that kinda makes my point about the stupid siege rollers ruining the game by being everywhere.

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@Fozzie quote:

Demons Lair Incursion

Forest Poachers Incursion

Buried bastille Incursion

Wyvern Enthusiasts Incursion

Altar of Athame Incursion

Chrome Enemies only have one ogre\Roller spawn so easy to target your build.

Rollers only turn right so on catacombs you can target your wall build, should rollers spawn.

And like I said, we're in the NM3 > NM4 hole, incursions where we could get an upgraded piece of gear are out of our reach right now. We're stuck with maps containing rollers - or none.

@Fozzie quote:

You heard of the baby boomers, these kids must be the spoon fed generation. Something slightly tricky and it's toys out of the pram.

DD2 has been crazily easy for too long and the Roller shook that up slightly.

"OMG I can lose a map, what do I do someone spoon feed my the solution."

It's ok sonny wait for your gaming balls to drop.

Your attitude about some "generation" and the gender to which you normally point your rudeness are moot - I've seen him try a Dark Souls boss for hours until he gets past it, along with the challenging aspects of other games he plays. I've been playing games since the Atari and know how to not only play every type of game out there but also take the frustration lumps along the way - as long as they were reasonable and did not impede progress. That's what challenge is. I was one of those sitting on the steps of the elementary school playing D&D. I was a raid leader in a couple of MMOs. I'm also a mother of three and if you think anything in this life is frustrating and full of challenge, try being a mom. So stick your disrespectful comments somewhere else, they don't belong here.


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Sen My advice to you, assuming you are still in that NM3-NM4 hole, is to do the following:

Farm Return of Maldonas incursion on NM4, do this to gear up 2 melee monks. stop farming it when you have 2 good Glaives. 

Good glaives are:

Secondary stat:

  • Elemental damage
  • Light (a high % number prefered)

Passives:

  • Crit chance or Power up

Then get NM3 Storm gloves, storm helm and storm boots (I assume you can do roller maps on NM3)

If NM3 is to hard, do NM2 for storm Gloves, skip the other storm items, and just use regular NM4 items you find on non roller incursions.

Good Storm Glove stats:

  • Lightning ball does 15-25% of hero damage as storm damage - this amount is irrelevant
  • Lightning ball bounces up to 2-4 times. - you want 4 bounces - this is the most important part of the gloves!
  • Hero Crit chance 3-5% you want 4% ideally 5%. (Heros can have over 30% crit chance, so aim for the highest possible.

Follow this guide: How to Monk and how to Roller

Obtain an earth damage pet, roll Poisonous Tips, this is the best option for this monk.

You will now have achieved two extremely powerful Melee Monks that will easily handle NM4 Rollers. If you get 1 roller, use 1 monk, if you get 2 rollers, use both once, if you get 3 rollers use the first monk twice, the second monk once.

[Warning] This build does abuse a bug that causes Crane stance to trigger from your elemental attacks, Poisonous tips, Storm Gloves bouncing lightning and Elemental damage on your weapon.


An alternative Pole Smash Monk that is equally strong:

  • Obtain a random selection of Ability Power gear, with ideally Hero Crit damage.
  • Equip Dragolitch pet
  • Obtain Harbinger's Punch (Hero addition) from Ramparts (normal) this map does however have rollers, so do on NM3. You care about the unique passive rolls, aim for as high as possible, I used the first one I found which was: Mighty Smash first deals 108% ability power as damage, and a secondary attack of 440% ability power as damage after a short delay. These rolls are not effected by NM difficulty.

Simply get behind a siege roller use dragolitch and spam 1, the positioning is key bad positioning you will do zero damage, good positioning you will destroy the siege roller in a couple of seconds.

[Warning] This build does abuse a bug that causes the Harbinger's Punch (Hero addition)  secondary hit to do excessive damage to siege rollers.

Anyway hope this helps you and anyone else trying to break into NM4 or even into any NM mode as this guide will get you ready for rollers, but you do need to be able to handle standard incursions to do so, at least Return of Maldonas.

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If you have a mystic you can just drop a oblesk behind the seige roller when you are at full mana and it will flame thrower it down in about 5 seconds

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@stuffymonster quote:

If you have a mystic you can just drop a oblesk behind the seige roller when you are at full mana and it will flame thrower it down in about 5 seconds

That's not what this thread is about. Everyone here can deal with a roller. That's not the problem. That problem is how they limit creativity and force specific heroes or play styles to deal with them whereas before you had the freedom to build how you wanted.



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@Axianamos quote:


@stuffymonster quote:

If you have a mystic you can just drop a oblesk behind the seige roller when you are at full mana and it will flame thrower it down in about 5 seconds

That's not what this thread is about. Everyone here can deal with a roller. That's not the problem. That problem is how they limit creativity and force specific heroes or play styles to deal with them whereas before you had the freedom to build how you wanted.



Agreed, already responded to that. This was about helping the person stuck on nm3-nm4 progression

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Thanks for the pointers. I'll see if I can give them a go.

I'm kind of surprised the glitches with the monk and gunwitch have survived this long. Those may have a fix in the upcoming superpatch.

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@stuffymonster quote:

If you have a mystic you can just drop a oblesk behind the seige roller when you are at full mana and it will flame thrower it down in about 5 seconds

I might have to get one just to watch her do that :)

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@Sen quote:

Your attitude about some "generation" and the gender to which you normally point your rudeness are moot - I've seen him try a Dark Souls boss for hours until he gets past it, along with the challenging aspects of other games he plays. I've been playing games since the Atari and know how to not only play every type of game out there but also take the frustration lumps along the way - as long as they were reasonable and did not impede progress. That's what challenge is. I was one of those sitting on the steps of the elementary school playing D&D. I was a raid leader in a couple of MMOs. I'm also a mother of three and if you think anything in this life is frustrating and full of challenge, try being a mom. So stick your disrespectful comments somewhere else, they don't belong here.

741131.gif

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@chubbyninja89 quote:

There are very few maps that the siege rollers don't show up on. Seriously man, look at the game a little more next time. The only map I can think of right off the top of my head is the Harbinger's Airship.


And that's the problem. They show up almost everywhere and proceed to ruin the game for you.

I think I did look at the game a little more than you think I did.

They don't ruin the game at all. They add a really tricky surprise/strategy element to the game Spiders, Djinn and Assassins added in DD1. A spider could render your entire build useless, and they spawned in the dozens, without any warning of where they spawned. Djinn could insta-kill your towers from their blind spot, and assassins could insta-kill you through your defenses and leave you dead for the entire wave (if you played hardcore).

You just need to apply other builds, lose a few games and adapt. You guys got too used to being able to finish Nightmare99 in the first try by mindlessly throwing towers at random.

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I don't think the enemy is that bad, I think it's bad implemented.

  1. The community in general wanted faster gameplay for higher difficulties. Totaly not what to expect from the roller.
  2. They're designed to crash a lane even when there are multiple heros in the lane and it's possible for three of them to appear at once. Whoever made this decision wants to troll us!!! Jester_Forum_icon2.png (Cut this guys toilet pauses in the office, let's see who's gonna laugh then!)
  3. The first few at it's design is just a better version of the ogre, tanking and damage dealing when standing in front of a defense.
  4. Can't be affected by status effects. Who thought in a game that once made combos a pretty big deal, an immune enemy would be a great idea? Toilet pause cut or steal his lunchbox!

What's well done:

  1. Can't approach it directly, you need to think about what you're doing.
  2. Tower placement gets more important.
  3. 360° attacks while moving forward to pressure.

So what's the general idea behind this enemy?

It's first of all to end the PDT spam. It's not said loud but sadly that's the real deal. Balance does not work this way, one tower beeing good against 99% of all odds does not get worse by creating a nearly immune enemy.

The second part is to create a challenge. There was often talked about variety in the earlier days of this forum but it got somehow lost in all the trouble Trendy had either internaly or went missing because the community did not care any more. So variety creates challenges but also for the programming. There's not something like an algorithm magicaly adressing balance. This takes time and a few patches, and so far I believe Trendy knows this pretty well and works with it.

Third are upcoming things we might not know so far.

The main problem just seems, that only a few heros can deal with the roller well enough to not feel frustreated when playing. I think that should be the main focus in a rework. Bringing all heros in shape to battle this enemy. Reworking it's weak spots, immunities or attack patters, speed or whatever. I can imagine at least 5 ideas right away to change it.

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How does "remove any ground defense in his way" work against PDT spam ? I don't think that Siege Roller was designed for balance. I think they wanted to involve player in the action game (removing AFK builders, you can see that with the sniping missiles too).

Too bad the missile can snipe crystals from spawning point with no counterplay.


With the upcoming patch, every character will be able to DPS. IMO, the only thing to do is to remove the anti-ground defense bull*** and balance other boss to be threatening (in other ways) and we'll be fine.

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well i see you guys post interesting stuff and all but me along with alot of people i know on Steam stop play the game as soon as the steam roller patch came out i bet there a reason for that . me my self played 3 years on dd , and about 2 years dd2 i was still with it but as soon as the roller thing it was the end for me.i could take alot of bs  but this was not one of them. im not a fan of most incursion for me it not fun at all i see it more of a pain ,and the roller thing seems to me like something that should only be in incursion.,and no i did not fight the (roller) left the game as soon as i seen the pach ,alot of things buged me about the game so when i saw that i was like im out, when i saw the next patch sounded interesting and im going to wait for it to get back in. (i did not started playing this game cus it looked like a pain in my ass ,i started playing cus it looked fun and played it and it was fun). 

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If they wanted to end PDT spam all they would have to do is balance it. This was not the reason the roller was introduced. PDT spam still works just as well, if not better since you don't have to deal with the majority of the other enemies in the land while dealing with the roller.


They could also get rid of PDT meta by adding passives that bring other towers up to the level of the PDT. Make cannonball towers explode, causing bleed damage to everyone in the AoE. Make Fireball Towers fire two blasts with each shot. Explosive traps can cause a special fire effect on explosion that stacks and spreads to enemies that touch the infected enemy. Blaze balloons could turn into frost balloons that freeze enemies. And still set them on fire. Because logic.

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@Axianamos quote:

They could also get rid of PDT meta by adding passives that bring other towers up to the level of the PDT. Make cannonball towers explode, causing bleed damage to everyone in the AoE. Make Fireball Towers fire two blasts with each shot. Explosive traps can cause a special fire effect on explosion that stacks and spreads to enemies that touch the infected enemy. Blaze balloons could turn into frost balloons that freeze enemies. And still set them on fire. Because logic.

Most accurate description of the new shard system I've seen without directly calling it the shard system. :)

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@Axianamos quote:

If they wanted to end PDT spam all they would have to do is balance it. This was not the reason the roller was introduced. PDT spam still works just as well, if not better since you don't have to deal with the majority of the other enemies in the land while dealing with the roller.


They could also get rid of PDT meta by adding passives that bring other towers up to the level of the PDT. Make cannonball towers explode, causing bleed damage to everyone in the AoE. Make Fireball Towers fire two blasts with each shot. Explosive traps can cause a special fire effect on explosion that stacks and spreads to enemies that touch the infected enemy. Blaze balloons could turn into frost balloons that freeze enemies. And still set them on fire. Because logic.

First. 

What is the PDT again?


And Second.

What will happen to heroes exactly?


I've heard and seen some comments about things like "they can be both fighters and defenders" and even something about there being a limit on how many heroes you can have. I just want to be clarified.

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@gigazelle quote:


@Axianamos quote:

They could also get rid of PDT meta by adding passives that bring other towers up to the level of the PDT. Make cannonball towers explode, causing bleed damage to everyone in the AoE. Make Fireball Towers fire two blasts with each shot. Explosive traps can cause a special fire effect on explosion that stacks and spreads to enemies that touch the infected enemy. Blaze balloons could turn into frost balloons that freeze enemies. And still set them on fire. Because logic.

Most accurate description of the new shard system I've seen without directly calling it the shard system. :)

This is what I'm hoping for, but no details have been released.



@chubbyninja89 quote:


@Axianamos quote:

If they wanted to end PDT spam all they would have to do is balance it. This was not the reason the roller was introduced. PDT spam still works just as well, if not better since you don't have to deal with the majority of the other enemies in the land while dealing with the roller.


They could also get rid of PDT meta by adding passives that bring other towers up to the level of the PDT. Make cannonball towers explode, causing bleed damage to everyone in the AoE. Make Fireball Towers fire two blasts with each shot. Explosive traps can cause a special fire effect on explosion that stacks and spreads to enemies that touch the infected enemy. Blaze balloons could turn into frost balloons that freeze enemies. And still set them on fire. Because logic.

First. 

What is the PDT again?


And Second.

What will happen to heroes exactly?


I've heard and seen some comments about things like "they can be both fighters and defenders" and even something about there being a limit on how many heroes you can have. I just want to be clarified.

PDT. Poison dart towers. OP as all hell right now because poisoned enemies explode, causing damage to nearby enemies and also poisoning them. Causing silly chain reactions that clear entire waves with a single shot. Only made more powerful by the serenity aura effect that does the same thing.

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