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The New Anti-Projectile Thingy.

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@Fozzie quote:
@Dani quote:

Funny thing, the new meta will allow for potential combo's not currently possible. Isom is currently writing up an excellent guide on the milestone features, so folks will get a better idea soon.

What I am hoping for is no "meta" just a state of play where using the du with any sensible combo of barriers, traps, auras, towers, heroes etc would be potentially successful.

Nah, then folks don't need to think. Just muck some crap together.

I'd rather see folks that take the time to think and experiment come out with some unique and satisfying new gameplay.

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@Dani quote:
@Fozzie quote:
@Dani quote:

Funny thing, the new meta will allow for potential combo's not currently possible. Isom is currently writing up an excellent guide on the milestone features, so folks will get a better idea soon.

What I am hoping for is no "meta" just a state of play where using the du with any sensible combo of barriers, traps, auras, towers, heroes etc would be potentially successful.

Nah, then folks don't need to think. Just muck some crap together.

I'd rather see folks that take the time to think and experiment come out with some unique and satisfying new gameplay.

indeed, I would go further then this and say there is not a game in existence that does not have a META. 
The goal of every game developer who wants balance in their game is accept a META will form whatever they do, but to make the "power gap" between the META and other builds as small as possible, and that is hard work.

I have to say, we should not judge the state of DD2 META's on the current state of the META, its an extreme example of poor balance and every man and his dog knows this. But lets not forget, we have had a lot of very imbalanced META's ever since the introduction of the Abyss Lord, I really hope Trendy realizes this and focuses on not having such an imbalanced game for such long stretches of time. 

Now given that, I am aware we will have some extremely imbalanced META formation in the first days and weeks after this major patch, but please respond fast and don't let it kill the awesome changes!

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If I'm honest, I have no idea how you guys define "meta."  Do you mean general changes to the game mechanics?  Help would be appreciated!

But, Dani, this is exciting news you bring :)  Thanks!  I think the more synergy the better.  I just got Toxic Shock... this is not a synergy, it is OP, yet I know there are players that consider this to be synergy.  Honestly, if Trendy were to debuff just this item/effect that would help rebalance the game tremendously.  I mean, my PDTs are so strong that on some levels where the mobs travel a small ways before coming through their gates, the poison explosions will chain-kill them all the way back into their gate.  Any mana they drop is thus unobtainable (as if it would be needed with these PDTs).

Literally, I watched a guy last night with Toxic Shock PDTs that were inferior to my own do NM4 Forest Biome with only one boost aura and one serenity aura per lane.  That's only using 400 DU of the 1250 Max.  That should never be possible in NM4.

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@papafhill quote:

If I'm honest, I have no idea how you guys define "meta."  Do you mean general changes to the game mechanics?  Help would be appreciated!

"Meta" is defined at the "game outside the game." That is, what strategies are the best.  And right now the strategy that beats the game is Toxic Shock, in all cases, on all maps, on all lanes.

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.... So how is Toxic Shock the "game outside the game?" Is it because now the game is more of a rush to get Toxic Shock, rather than building unique combos of defenses to survive the longest?

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It's called "metagaming."  That is: gaming the game, rather than just playing.  Finding the solution to a min-max optimization problem.

Like dump-statting charisma when you're playing D&D because who needs to talk to anyone?

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@papafhill quote:

.... So how is Toxic Shock the "game outside the game?" Is it because now the game is more of a rush to get Toxic Shock, rather than building unique combos of defenses to survive the longest?

Oh for ***s sake.

The metagame is figuring out what items are the best.  That item is Toxic Shock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming

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So... using something that is built into the game is metagaming?  lol (trolling)

I get it, figuring out what items are best through Youtube, et al, is metagaming.  I don't see how that is so bad though.  I see the problem being more of having something that OP put in the game to begin with.  Literally, PDT with Toxic Shock seems the only way to make a reasonable defense.  I mean, yea I'm sure you can use the Dryad defense set by itself to hold down lanes in NM4 but c'mon clearly something went awry with Toxic Shock that makes PDT the MVP of defenses.

If I'm honest, DD2 pre-alpha blew me away more so than DD2 currently and that was because building unique setups playing into special synergy-effects gave you the edge during combat.  These special effects attached to items IMHO were poorly implemented and I wish a nerf to end all nerfs would be done to them.  I'd suggest nerfing the effects, adding lots of more cool effects from various items, and letting them be just a small perk that would feed into a defender's play style when building/attacking.

We haven't even talked about the DPS Hero items that drop Siege Rollers in a couple shots...

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@papafhill quote:

So... using something that is built into the game is metagaming?  lol (trolling)

I get it, figuring out what items are best through Youtube, et al, is metagaming.  I don't see how that is so bad though.  I see the problem being more of having something that OP put in the game to begin with.  Literally, PDT with Toxic Shock seems the only way to make a reasonable defense.  I mean, yea I'm sure you can use the Dryad defense set by itself to hold down lanes in NM4 but c'mon clearly something went awry with Toxic Shock that makes PDT the MVP of defenses.

If I'm honest, DD2 pre-alpha blew me away more so than DD2 currently and that was because building unique setups playing into special synergy-effects gave you the edge during combat.  These special effects attached to items IMHO were poorly implemented and I wish a nerf to end all nerfs would be done to them.  I'd suggest nerfing the effects, adding lots of more cool effects from various items, and letting them be just a small perk that would feed into a defender's play style when building/attacking.

We haven't even talked about the DPS Hero items that drop Siege Rollers in a couple shots...

I quote you "Literally, PDT with Toxic Shock seems the only way to make a reasonable defense."

I highly disagree with you on your entire statement the moment you said that.


I quote you again "I mean, yea I'm sure you can use the Dryad defense set by itself to hold down lanes in NM4 but c'mon clearly something went awry with Toxic Shock that makes PDT the MVP of defenses."

Dryad's Defenses are rather powerful even without passives on gear. They are ludicrously overpowered if you managed to farm her Gear Passives but its really frustrating with about 8+ passives when you only need a specific 3 to roll on your gear. Huntress' PDT is widely used because it is easy to obtain and easy to use plus its still far more efficient and stronger than Dryad's defenses that it can either complement any build or just handle everything by itself except the now existent Siege Rollers.


I quote you once more "I get it, figuring out what items are best through Youtube, et al, is metagaming.  I don't see how that is so bad though.  I see the problem being more of having something that OP put in the game to begin with."

Metagaming is pretty bad for a game like DD2. In PvP if everyone went the same character style because it was super good then there wouldn't be any complaints that are really injustified since the game would then be about individual skill. In PvE which DD2 focuses on its not a good thing because there isn't any difference since every enemy is coded to follow the same pattern and the difficulty curves on increased numbers. Everything is about PDT to the point it kills the enjoyment of joining random games hoping there might be a fun challenge that requires you to adapt to the situation. I do agree about you seeing the problem with OP stuff being put into the game to begin with. What I wonder about that is why they left it alone for over 6 months now after only a few tweaks.

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