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CDT Update 3 Beta - The Tavern Expansion Discussion

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My Beta Review

Hello everyone it is Atherial here to bring you all of the things i have noticed in a single post. i had waited my time till i have everything i need to know and could make this single post. Also i have been really tired and just now have regained the energy to type all this out. So without further due i would like start on a positive note and give thanks to some people.

  • Nexus: Thanks for your work on the tavern, i appreciate the time you spent making it please don't take anything i have to say personally as it is not mean't that way.
  • The rest of the CDT: Thanks for the good work i would not be able to write this without you.

So we will be following a schedule on this post in the following order.

  1. The Tavern
  2. The New Maps
  3. The Weapons
  4. General Changes
  5. Any Last Thoughts

The Tavern

So before i put my concept art i created in the post i will go over my pros and cons of the new tavern and any bugs i have noticed beyond the simple frame rate problems. 

Pros

  • Has extra space for shops and general cramped tavern floors.
  • Has a increased limit of items to be placed.
  • Diamond forge is nice.
  • Added space for trophies.
  • Looks very nice and resembles the old tavern.
  • Love that the doors open and close i can see use for this in map making in the future

Cons

  • A bit too large especially the outside of it
  • A bit too grand for my taste (personal opinion)
  • Ledge over the tavern keep is annoying and also a fair few also dislike it
  • Tower seems pointless if only a music box
  • Annoying that you are unable to bring people into the tower and have them see items
  • Outside tends to look the same after long enough and the snow is super blatant
So i have created a small concept art to show what my original thoughts for a tavern expansion would consist of . Hope that this can help in some way with determining what people actually want. 

ef0a340e6e.png

Question: will the fact the new tavern exists mean we do not get any new themes like ember and or moonbase since it is so large i could not see us ever getting new ones due to the time investment. If we had a smaller tavern if players wanted them it would not take nearly as much work to implement them.

The New Maps

I am very happy with the new maps and even happier with them not having achievements. Since i feel that adding them to this game just annoys people even though i really don't mind. So i will now go into each map in as much detail as i can.

Dread Dungeon

very nice map i do really like the feel of a smaller map like it. And sorta think we have a good option in the future to make more end game maps that don't need to be made hard by adding 5 or 6 crystals. i am a little disappointed that we do not have a challenge mode of dread dungeon that maybe has all skeletons and ogre skeletons (giant sized skeletons with ogre like hp that re-spawn and full hp). Call it skeletal hordes or something like that. 

Temple of Water

I really like this map also may i just say that the water textures in DD are not actually that bad.... i love the fact that there is a underwater area which on my first run i forgot existed. The map looks nice and the rework is pretty great i feel we should do another vote since there are still very good maps out there on the workshop still. 

Temple of Poly

Nice to see a challenging map with lives and a time limit. I feel that the time limit and lives actually improve the map in general since it means that you have to think and be prepared instead of oh ill try this and wait this does not work so forth. Very good work though i agree with caimen on making the drop rates better for items in poly since doing 12 runs and getting 1 ult is a bit brutal expecially if the stats have a high roll variability like ember. Imagine the time it would take to get a ult++ of any of those items the way it is.

The Weapons

I basically agree with caimen on this i think re using the ember crescent this early is a bit annoying considering you could have taken maybe the jade spear and made it have the same effect and glow blue. I do not have much else to say on weapons as i think caimen has said everything needed to be said. Though i will suggest some items if we decide to make a dread dungeon themed challenge map.

  • Bone Glaive: A glaive made of bone it uses the glaive model and is a a white tone. Slow rate high damage maxed at +3 proj.
  • Spine Sword: A boneyard blade modelled weapon that is white like a spine and has a very fast attack rate and a large size. (high dps low hawk)
  • The Corpse Tosser: One of those skeleton guns with the same tone as the others listed above and a very high attack rate but caps ammo at 35 or something around there requiring a reload every few bursts.
  • Skeletal Staff: a staff that shoots projectiles in a ring around you based off (a staff model with a skull 90% sure it exists) The staff would have bad single target but can hit mobs from all angles making it unique and useful in specific scenarios. 

I tried to keep these as just simple re-colours of past items just so that it is easier to make and can be done in a decent time if you guys like the concept. 

General Changes

  • I like almost every change though i still feel like LT's are slightly over toned.
  • I love the added character slots

Any Last Spots

Great job on all your work hope you all have a great day. 

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We have some things in mind to address the performance and other issues, including the removal of theme selection and making other structural adjustments as necessary. As far as theming, an updated tavern, even with the theme selection removed, doesn't mean we can't do a special theme in the future, but the issue was letting the player pick the theme meant a lot more resources needed to be used and it was causing problems.

Your patience and respectful feedback is appriciated as we work to update the beta build.

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@Alhanalem quote:

We have some things in mind to address the performance and other issues, including the removal of theme selection and making other structural adjustments as necessary. As far as theming, an updated tavern, even with the theme selection removed, doesn't mean we can't do a special theme in the future, but the issue was letting the player pick the theme meant a lot more resources needed to be used and it was causing problems.

Your patience and respectful feedback is appriciated as we work to update the beta build.

I wanted to wait til i had enough to say so i could make 1 post instead of lots of disjointed ones hope something i said was useful. Good to hear about new special themes i like them though i think they shold maybe run for the first like 2 - 3 months of a patch then revert to the old "new" tavern since some times we all miss it :).  I wil be working on more feedback once the next beta branch is added it will come in the same format. I try my best to not be rude <3

CDT <3

Nexus <3

Boon Neca 

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Quick notes;


  • Game crashed instantly on the way into Polybius.
  • Performance is horrible, horrible, horrible. I'm running on a GTX1070 and a 4.8ghz 6700k, and am used to running at 4k with 4-way split at solid 60fps. This build was stuttering on every level. Is it a debug vs release build?
  • Loading times into the Tavern are significantly and obviously higher than before - why? 

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@DjArcas quote:
  • Game crashed instantly on the way into Polybius.
  • Performance is horrible, horrible, horrible. I'm running on a GTX1070 and a 4.8ghz 6700k, and am used to running at 4k with 4-way split at solid 60fps. This build was stuttering on every level. Is it a debug vs release build?
  • Loading times into the Tavern are significantly and obviously higher than before - why? 

1. Known bug

3. The inclusion of themes is slowing down the build. As stated by CDT members, themes are being temporarily removed

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I played tower wars the other day on live non beta and it was medium tower wars, their enemies were level 6 and I built with my 4.7k thp summoner... My minions all died instantly three times and sometimes it happens before, no way on medium they can destroy my minions with around 70k hp in total... I think it was my electric aura killing them for some odd reason so I removed the auras and they didn't die anymore. 

If you can't be bothered to read that, tower wars is bugged, electric aura can kill your minions, needs a fix, tower wars is love and tower wars is life.


Also if harbingers do come to tower wars, make it so they are spawnable once the spider queen has been defeated in the match as if it was late game. I don't know the exact mana worth of mobs you need to spawn for spider queen but its late game in tower wars.

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Howdy All,

Beta build has been updated.  List of changes are noted here.  We would appreciate anyone who can to take the time to look through and test the changes to provide feedback on the current state of the Update.

NOTE:  The tavern lag is definitely one of the most challenge issues the update was facing so please take some time to test that as there are a variety of players with a variety of computer configs that we dont have access to and thus will have some different experiences than you. Feedback in this area is of particular interest for the benefit of everyone.

Thanks

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I hope this is the right place.

There was something I was thinking about that crossed my mind when I was thinking about all the accessories that could roll ultimate rarity. That would be to increase the max level spawn on the TOL accessories to be in the same ballpark as the santa accessories and turkey accessories. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure out of all the top hats and bows I ever spawned they seem to peak around the low 170 mark. Compared to turkey being at least 221 levels based on my highest level one I currently have and santa accessories going up to 239 levels. Since all the high stat accessories are getting pulled from lab assault next update, Wouldn't it be a good idea if the TOL accessories got their levels buffed to be in the same ball park as the other high end accessories? And have the capability to roll ultimate as well due to that increase?

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I get a solid 62 fps no matter where I go or what I look at in the tavern, although there's something strangely choppy in the room with the TV.  My frame rate doesn't go down, but something is weird there.  Aside from that, I haven't experienced anything you could call "lag" in the updated tavern.

The tavern load time is noticeable, although it's not a big deal on my computer.  But I have a friend whose computer takes an extra 15 seconds or so to load the old tavern, and I'm going to ask him if he'll try the beta so we can see how long it takes him to load the new one. 

Overall, I really like the new tavern.  People complained about the new places that were added, and I was sort of prepared to dislike them myself, but I thought it was kind of fun running around outside and upstairs.  I have to admit, I have trouble recognizing it as the same outdoor area that Tavern Defense takes place in, but I don't mind that.  I like having new places to run around in :)  If there are any problems due to the larger map, though, I wouldn't mind having the outside area removed.

Since the fps issue seems to be resolved, I really have one complaint: I'd like to be able to run around the tavern without bumping into walls.  There are little places where, for cosmetic reasons, wood panels stick out slightly from the wall.  These wood panels should be visual only, so you can walk through them without getting stuck on them.  I spend a lot of my time in the tavern absent-mindedly running laps and hopping around (I can't hold still) and I would really appreciate a tavern that's a little more running-in-circles-friendly :)

dvqC1OJ.jpg

Poor Bean is trying to walk, but is stuck on a wall.

Dread Dungeon seems like a new early game map, but aside from experience seems fairly unrewarding, and other early game maps give more experience, so I'm not sure when players will choose to run it.  Temple of Water doesn't run very well on my computer, so I didn't try it very much.

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The fps is much better sitting at 62 i still experience drops when running up the stairs or when facing the tavern outside but it is much better.

The walls on the stairway feel smoother i am not bumping off every pillar however it is still bumpy elsewhere and i think all the horizontal beams are still solid.

I don't know if the Harry Potter closet is intended? it's just weird.

No balcony over the tavernkeep woo!

rip waveskipping i was too lazy to do it anyway.


Also if anyone can test this before i manage to: is it still possible to have non hosts use the forge? if so does the host still lose the coal and get no diamond

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- Walls on the first floor patched to no longer cause collision issues (CDT check out) Available next beta update from this one.

- The Diamond Forge should be fixed (current beta) and no longer functions for anyone but the host, to avoid any exploitation or malfunctions, there is also a forced activation delay to remedy previous exploitation.



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@Nexus quote:

- Walls on the first floor patched to no longer cause collision issues (CDT check out) Available next beta update from this one.

- The Diamond Forge should be fixed (current beta) and no longer functions for anyone but the host, to avoid any exploitation or malfunctions, there is also a forced activation delay to remedy previous exploitation.



The forge now only spawns one diamond then you need to restart for more(i have been told this is intended though ( i think i know why it was only removing one set but im not sure)

On the second floor on the second level next to the large amount of dummies, if you attempt to walk down the middle of the stairs next to them you will get stuck on the beam in the floor.

i don't think you can get out of the main river if you fall in so you might as well just teleport them out instantly, its really dark and you cant do much other than run to the end and get tele'd out.

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@Lootlovinggamer quote:

I hope this is the right place.

There was something I was thinking about that crossed my mind when I was thinking about all the accessories that could roll ultimate rarity. That would be to increase the max level spawn on the TOL accessories to be in the same ballpark as the santa accessories and turkey accessories. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure out of all the top hats and bows I ever spawned they seem to peak around the low 170 mark. Compared to turkey being at least 221 levels based on my highest level one I currently have and santa accessories going up to 239 levels. Since all the high stat accessories are getting pulled from lab assault next update, Wouldn't it be a good idea if the TOL accessories got their levels buffed to be in the same ball park as the other high end accessories? And have the capability to roll ultimate as well due to that increase?

I think this is a good idea.  Basically it gives players more cosmetic choices without sacrificing stats, and for most players ToL is at least as hard as WW, and ToL doesn't give coal, so I think it's a fair change.  WW only gives one acc per char, but it gives coal on top of that.

Is anyone open to the idea of adding a way to get 2 accs per char on GTH2, like on ToL?  GTH2 takes a while to run and accs are the only reward for farming it, and for many players it's harder to do with AFKs than WW or ToL.  It'd be nice to get two chances at a decent shield :)

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It may be best to hold off brand new ideas until after this update is live and work on the next update has begun

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6irfNPD.jpg

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See how there are no railings on these two spots, to make it easier to go up and down the stairs?  Could you please remove those railings from the beta tavern too?  That's an example of one of the ways the current tavern is easier to move around in.

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@ddace quote:
  • Fix for armor being removed more than weapons (weapons were rated higher in quality)

how are people getting on with this? This seems very important but everyone is so conditioned into doing campaign maps instead of survival no one is testing it :)

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@Mankinater quote:

how are people getting on with this? This seems very important but everyone is so conditioned into doing campaign maps instead of survival no one is testing it :)

Global map drops were broken in the initial beta update. Therefore there is no info about it.
More info should be out once people have tried it now that the beta has be updated with some changes and the map drop bug has been fixed. I'd suggest, try it yourself and let us know? :D

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So, I am wondering what these could mean can someone give me a lil explanation abut these 6 points?

Tavern: Items Dropped by Host Hidden in private rooms should be hidden from guests (what does count as private rooms and can you turn that on an off?)

Tavern: Item Recovery added to the void, if something escapes reality, it’ll re-appear by the first floor forge! (So if you drop something outside and it despawns/falls underground, it will get dropped in front of the forge again?)

Added shields to count towards cosmetic set bonus (what?)

Added profile save event after rewarded equipment (Like a save file that trendy can always resorte your account back to?)

Wheel o Fortuna Damage All percentage reported on the tavern dummy (how much dmg? how many hp do these dummys have?)

Fixed opacity scaling (what?)


Also I absolutely love the tavern with its new size etc, great work Nexus! And ofc CDT!

Also I have heared that people dont ike the plateau above the keeper, I personally love it but I would prefer it if there were no Achievement trophies up there, so you could just showcase some items up there without and stuff in the way.

And I read that someone said that the tavern feels empty... I wouldn`t mind some NPC's inhabitating the tavern <3 #wewon'tmakethisDD2

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Tavern Item Recovery :  Yes basically anything that escapes the confines of the set world boundaries will / should be ported back into the tavern, as before if people dropped things too closely to walls they would fall through into the void and never be seen again. The recovery system should rectify that and dropped items should never despawn from the tavern.

Private rooms: Yes if items dropped in spaces where its designed exclusive for the host to enter any items dropped in those spaces shouldn't ever show their stats, this is a prevention to keep items from being duplicated / stolen.   

Cosmetic Set bonuses : As apart of set bonuses the shields for the squire classes were added to the set system so they contributed to the set bonuses where there are some to be had. 


Tavern NPC's : if something can be worked out, this was indeed intended for a future update. 

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In response to a couple of moonwalk's other questions that Nexus didn't cover

- save file event after reward equipment - in some case data could be lost because the game was not saving after some rewards being given. So a save event was added to make sure this happens. 

- Wheel o Fortuna damage all just shows a percentage of damage. Amount of health on a dummy doesn't matter as it is always going to be a percentage. It allows players to easily see how much percent damage different amounts of stats in ab2 will affect Damage All rolls since it can be hard to tell in game while fighting. 

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I have a suggestion to make. Make an option so we can disable all spawn notifications on the map aswell. It is very annoying (Moonbase is a great example) when you have the whole map covered with enemy spawn info when looking for purple, yellow and blue dots on the map. It makes it very confusing so an option to disable that would make it much easier. Due to this, I almost missed an ult++ item once. 

I also have another suggestion. recolor trans and ult+/++ drops. I myself have some problem with bad vision and I also assume people with some kind of color blindness can have a hard time to see if an item is actually trans (purple) or ult+/++ (red/orange). Or an option to paint those to w/e you prefer, in the option panel.

Just few suggestions that I had on my mind :)

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@Linesar quote:

I have a suggestion to make. Make an option so we can disable all spawn notifications on the map aswell. It is very annoying (Moonbase is a great example) when you have the whole map covered with enemy spawn info when looking for purple, yellow and blue dots on the map. It makes it very confusing so an option to disable that would make it much easier. Due to this, I almost missed an ult++ item once. 

I also have another suggestion. recolor trans and ult+/++ drops. I myself have some problem with bad vision and I also assume people with some kind of color blindness can have a hard time to see if an item is actually trans (purple) or ult+/++ (red/orange). Or an option to paint those to w/e you prefer, in the option panel.

Being able to disable the boxes that show you what will spawn from each spot would actually be really nice.  I would like that feature :)

For the color thing, I know this isn't perfect, but for now you could try setting your filter to supreme or higher.  Then you would know ult+/++ isn't trans.

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A few more things to add to the list, that I think would be an improvement to the game.

1.  Boss Rush - can we just hit G to skip thru the timer or too difficult?

2. Be able to look up and down 90 degrees instead of 45.

3. Lvl 100 toons able to carry 2440 mana in maps so can do 2,  3-star upgrades in one go.

4. Uncap hero pets # tower boost limits or something to make them more appealing.

All I got for now.  Great job so far, thanks for all the hard work!!

Cheers

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