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Oh hey! Look! Its another Post about why PDT Needs Nerf!

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Forgive my messy ways of doing posts and inserting my personal tidbits. There is a lot of PDT hate and love but honestly it needs to go down asap. Its also currently bugged so its doing double damage but even without that bug it is still an absolute wrecking ball. In my case I see Miley Cyrus on that wrecking ball as do many others which is why I'm trying to stop it. DU is an abbreviation for Defense Units which is amount of towers you can have. The Numbering layout is to make it easier to comment about what you highly agree/disagree.


1) It makes the game too easy. I've also seen people who say the game is easy and they don't bother to stop using PDT for a better experience that they're missing out on. The people who I have seen that decided stop using PDT for atleast one game just transitioned to Volcano spam or over rely on Proton Beams or outright fail. They gave me salt.

2) It is harming the core concepts of the game. I've heard that Terraria boosted playerbase with newbies(don't kill me for that word) and some of them are rushing to Nm4 in under a week with no clue how the game is supposed to be. There will be a lack of understanding once PDT gets nerfed but it is to be expected just like when Earthsha- (someone in the distance who knows me runs up and slaps me because I keep bringing up how nearly useless/inefficient/inferior earthshatter is for the 100th time)

3) Non-PDT builds can already be supported by a player as long as he has a proper DPS character and team to compensate. Ex: A map as 800 Du and 4 lanes. The builder need atleast 300 Du per lane for his personal setup so he either has to cut costs and have each teammate cover a lane or use that extra DU meant for the 4th lane to reinforce those 3 lanes to handle themselves so the 4th lane can be handled by the entire team for glory.

4) The PDT meta has gone too far! How many months has it been since PDT has been on the king of the hill? I'm not sure about other meta but it should be in 1st/2nd place for longest time spent being Meta.

5) Trendy really needs to start tweaking numbers more often instead of waiting for specific patches. They either buff/nerf something really drastically when they do patches and most of the time leave it like that for the next future patches. PDT was one of the most useless towers and now its the most overused tower in the game in just a few patches. They haven't touched PDT for a couple months if you exclude the PDT getting fixed from shooting through walls. I don't read patch notes in entirety so I may have missed some.

6) PDT is too easy to gear for and too simple to use. No skill and not even luck is needed. Its all 100% guaranteed to do what you need it do unless a random bug popped up in a recent update and wasn't fixed until the next couple months. In this case it was given a bug since Journey Update where its dealing double damage and that still hasn't been fixed.

7) Partially because of PDT Trendy decided to deduct 200 DU from most maps in the past. To be fair when they did this after they buffed other towers and Heroes are capable enough to DPS thus there is an equilibrium. The downside is that they deducted 200 Du from most maps. To be honest I'm only salty about this since I mostly use Melee Dps character and they are bad at killing flying units. Gribloks incursion has 3 lanes and 600 du. 200 du per lane is enough to survive without PDT but still needs Hero DPS. Unfortunately most viable setups with the reduced DU limit involves AoE setups and they don't cover air lane which means I need ranged heroes to kill them. That extra 200 Du would be very handy and give me more build options...

8) I'm dying from all this typing already so just read older hate posts with legitimate concerns or just watch older Trendy Devsteams and notice their usage of PDT for background video while Dev talk about stuff. Whenever they do showcase new heroes they can't use PDT and I just chuckle when they activate godmode for the Crystal Core because the defenses failed or know they are going to. They're just showcasing but still its a bit funny if you have a weird sense of humor. Trendy don't kill me please (T^T)


Counter Argument? *Sigh* fine... (Parenthesis is my response)

A) It helps people have a good time if they want to! (I can't disagree with that but a certain part of the player base does not find it fair when people but in less effort for the same gear and also do it so much faster)

B) People don't need PDT for fun! They can just not use it if they want fun then use PDT if they want to afk farm gear! (This is my personal counterargument since I actually do this myself. To be honest I hate myself and this is one of those reasons why)

C) We're going to lose (paying) players!!! (I honestly don't care as they have the right to leave if they can't handle the game without PDT because all PDT builds just boil down to mostly AFK so they're not even really playing the game at this point)

D) But Nightmare difficulty is impossible without PDT! (Who told you that? Old Veterans who didn't get filled in with updates months ago? Newbies who didn't bother to utilize combos or take time to farm proper gear passives or build a DPS character? Back in my days we only had FrostyTrap Meta as a viable build and only Huntress was Viable dps character. Nowadays more setups are actually viable but still need HeroDps to ensure it won't fail assuming its not PDT. Some of the Hero Dps Options nowadays can handle a Nm4 lane by themselves because they're insanely strong. I don't see how PDT nerf would make Nightmare impossible at all. I've seen a Nm3 geared player beat a Nm4 map before PDT was Meta but he had to put effort in upgrading that gear and having good passives which he worked for)

E) People need to farm gear and PDT makes it easier so they can get gear for other builds! (A small fraction of the playerbase does this. I doubt most of us are actually going to them in public games a lot while PDT is so hard to resist. We need to shove people to use their gear for other builds so there is more diversity because everyone

F) Trendy is taking their time and they will get to it eventually! (True but we need it soon and we've been saying this over and over again ever since it became a thing. We'd expected it to get nerf about a month after when PDT was buffed to how it is now)

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I am one who is awfully frustrated with PDT along with all the completely overpowered towers most of which are in the arsenal of new heroes.

I highly recommend stopping building in public, stop playing public unless its a catacomb 5/7, then sure join for a quick chance at a chest.

I also highly recommend playing solo, and playing with towers you enjoy, if its a challenge you are after, play with the old heroes, play with ***ty towers from the new heroes (reflect beam, ramsters) and start to enjoy the game again. 

Its harder, it can be frustrating, but ultimately its rewarding and fun.

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Supposedly the next major patch will include significant changes to the way equipment passives work, which is likely to have a huge impact on the viability of nearly every tower in the game. This of course means that every tower will need to be adjusted and re-balanced before we can have fair and challenging gameplay again. 

There's little point in reworking the PDT or anything else before this patch is completed.

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@Folly quote:

Supposedly the next major patch will include significant changes to the way equipment passives work, which is likely to have a huge impact on the viability of nearly every tower in the game. This of course means that every tower will need to be adjusted and re-balanced before we can have fair and challenging gameplay again. 

There's little point in reworking the PDT or anything else before this patch is completed.

other then letting people have fun again and play the new heroes before that patch is released.

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Haha. "Letting" people have fun again. You mean "making decisions for players who aren't cognitively capable of making any themselves to improve their own experience while waiting for said updates."


Oh this tower so boring. Better keep spamming it while making endless topics about it until the merciful devs take it away from me!


It's gonna get fixed when it gets fixed, and if they're waiting for a certain benchmark first, then so be it. Impatience I get, but this isn't really an argument worth having anymore. We all know it's gonna get toned down in some manner and most everyone agrees with that sentiment. HOW it gets nerfed is up for debate I guess.

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@Zimmermann quote:

I am one who is awfully frustrated with PDT along with all the completely overpowered towers most of which are in the arsenal of new heroes.

I highly recommend stopping building in public, stop playing public unless its a catacomb 5/7, then sure join for a quick chance at a chest.

I also highly recommend playing solo, and playing with towers you enjoy, if its a challenge you are after, play with the old heroes, play with ***ty towers from the new heroes (reflect beam, ramsters) and start to enjoy the game again. 

Its harder, it can be frustrating, but ultimately its rewarding and fun.

I went through and did a bunch of testing yesterday on those new tavern dummys. I was trying to figure out a good replacement build that isn't as ez mode as PDT but also not as brutal as your builds :)

What i found was that most of the towers in the game are broken/bugged in some way and don't really do what they are supposed to do.

Few examples:

Harpy inspect dps is 38k on my 700 ipwr geared dryad. Dummy DPS was like 25k

Mystic viper tower does not crit with 30% crit chance and its dmg does not scale with buff beam only the attack rate.

There where several towers who did not get higher dmg from buff beam only higher attack rate.

I did another test of hornets. Separate towers will not attack the same target. So more than 1 nest per lane is pretty bad if u have decent aoe coverage.

The frostyfire nerf really screwed frosty/trap i don't know if its worse than before but i'm not willing to find out.

LA did not seem to crit ever. All of the special build weapon passives don't scale with upgrades(we knew this but its terrible) 

Most of the critical dmg in game doesn't scale at all or in a really weird way.


Basically PDT is trendy taking the easy way yet again. Its a crutch to hold up a broken game.

Can you do NM4 without PDT? Sure easy. But you have to do a bunch of testing to figure out what towers actually work and it will most likely end in some other cheese like proton/volcano/vipers.


Suggestion to trendy:


Go test all of your towers with all of the supporting buff towers to see the interaction. And fix the ones who don't work.

Normalize critical scaling to 100% or X% of base dmg then add the critical dmg stat from gear.

(example - tower A does 1000 dmg per shot it then crits for 2000 dmg. You upgrade it to 2000 dmg it now crits for 4000 etc etc)

Do a bit of math and figure out relative DPS/DU stats for towers and bring the towers a bit closer to balanced.

Rework build passive weapons so they scale with upgrades.

Nerf PDT to hell.


Thanks for listening


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@Vagnar quote:

Haha. "Letting" people have fun again. You mean "making decisions for players who aren't cognitively capable of making any themselves to improve their own experience while waiting for said updates."

Oh this tower so boring. Better keep spamming it while making endless topics about it until the merciful devs take it away from me!

Thats a bit harsh assuming anyone who takes the path of least resistance is mentally incapable of self restraint to further enjoy a game. But there is a grain of truth to that statement.

I pretty much can speak for any developer when I say, sometimes players will choose the path of least resistance to obtain a goal even if it makes their gaming experience worse. And if they could be honest, they would publicly agree with me :P

Now a personal example where I was as you so politely put it "not cognitively capable of making a decision on my ownn". That was moving away from Sky Dragon's Fury. It was a fun weapon, but hugely overpowered. It solved all my DPS problems and gave me no insentive to think of other solutions.

They nerfed it into the ground, completely destroying its use in any meaningful situation. From 4 million damage per second... to 150k DPS.

Now I am really enjoying the game, I have built and learned how to use a melee burst monk, and I am loving the synergy and play style of Glaive of the Storm.

If I could go back and un-nerf Sky Dragon's Fury... I wouldn't!! (yes it needs a buff, but thats another topic)

So to recap, sometimes players are incapable of seeing the forest for the trees, and thats where a good design team makes decisions that are hated, but ultimately make the game better and let players have fun again.


[[130078,users]] Yeah many good points you made there. I have been playing with LA's and the Glaive of the Storm passive not critting since the launch of the new content. I worked out the amount of damage I am losing, and its about 25% on my LA's, not sure how much im losing on the Glaive.

So I got new content + a nerf as usual hehe. But I played when Amped up was broken and reduced your damage by 18% (if perfect), so you lost 18% damage, then had an additional 18% reduction. During that time, you had to equip gear without Amped up, to get some damage back LOL


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I didn't mean it to be an insult to all PDT users. I want it to be toned down too, and I still use them. That said, it doesn't make me so mad that it ruins my experience, and I'm not bothered by it every time I place one. If it was actually ruining my experience though, it's definitely something I have a degree of control over, and I know they're going to adjust it, so it's just a waiting game right now. It's totally in my capacity to not use them though if it upset me that much. I never use Proton Beams. Why? I don't like them. They make the game less fun for me even though there are plenty of strats WAY STRONGER than what I use that utilizes them, and they'd be a perfect solution to weak points in what I do use.


If they came on forums and said "We deliberately designed PDT to perform at this overwhelmingly strong level and we have no intention of changing this," I'd probably complain about that lol.

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TLDR, don't care to read all of the comments this time. 

On that note, here are some thoughts:

PDT is not a super strong tower. This is a false notion. Try placing just a PDT tower (without the specific bow) and without Serenity Aura Purge Evil. Then see how it well it does.

After you see that fail, Go ahead & add the huntress bow, but don't use SAPE (Serenity Aura Purge Evil). You will still need DPS as support or other towers as support in order to win.

When you try these 2 things, you will realize the truth: PDT are not strong towers. PDT + specific Huntress Bow + SAPE is a strong BUILD. Add frosty tower with freeze sphere for an even stronger build! If you do not understand this concept, I do not know how else to explain it. Maybe someone else can.


Similarly, Archers are not a strong tower either. But, add the passives + SAPE and it is a strong build!


Another Strong build, Maw of the Earth Drake + Proton Beam (with frosty node AKA PBFN) + Frosty Tower (with freeze sphere) and SAPE is a strong build.


Do we see a pattern yet? Serenity Aura with Purge Evil! Yup! that's is what makes these "towers" so strong! It's not the towers, people! So quit with your red herring arguments!! It makes you sound dumber than what you actually are. I assume you are all smart.


When DD2 was 1st announced to the public (post MOBA version), TE showcased some synergies & let the future player to believe that this game had a large center around tower & player synergy! Well, they did NOT lie & they came through with that promise! Many towers/heroes synergize (sp?) very well together!


If anything nerf is to be called for, it's the nerf of Purge Evil, yet NO ONE is talking about nerfing purge evil. personally, I like Purge evil & want it to stay as it is. I do NOT want it changed at all.

When Zimmermann's Lightning Auras get buffed and when Skyaliciouse's Apprentice Fire towers get buffed, I have no doubt they will use SAPE. Then many others will catch on that these setups are super OP! & then people will be crying out to Nerf LA & nerf Fire towers. When really, it's the Purge Evil that makes the BUILDS so OP!


So, please just stop with the "NERF PDT! NERF PDT! No one is forcing you to use it. No one is forcing you to join public games. No one is forcing you to NOT build public games yourself with something other than PDT. If you happen to join a game where sum1 has built a PDT build, then ask them why they use it. Ask them if they understand the mechanics behind the OPness. If not, explain it to them. If so, cool. Then ask them if you can build next run. If they let you, show them another build that is also OP in it's own right.

We all play according to our own likes and dislikes and based on how we understand the game.


I have super utility slow build I use alot, but not many people know about it. It is as good or better than the PDT build. The people who DO know about it & use it, really enjoy it! And guess what, PDT are NOT part of that equation! However, Serenity Auras Purge Evil are!


At any rate, Trendy is focused on end game right now. They have said as much in the past 2 dev streams. They (Elandrian specifically) have also mentioned here on the forums that they plan on making some positive changes to all the heroes. Not sure what "positive" means. To me, it means heroes will be strong. To someone else, it might mean "balanced" heroes...whatever "balanced" means. And it may mean something completely different to Trendy.

Based off those 2 things from trendy, I am not convinced that any major nerfs are coming until after the enemy revamp and maybe even not until after end game is here. I could be wrong. I could be right. I don't know. I just don't see/hear anything from trendy that indicates any major nerfs in the near future. unless of course, we consider the enemy revamp (where enemies will behave differently and some will be immune to projectiles) to be a type of nerf to ALL builds. If that is the case, then I see a HUGE nerf coming to the game soon...whatever "soon" means.


Thanks for reading, Have a good day and a great life!! 


#1stworldproblems

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@SpiderDanX quote:

TLDR, don't care to read all of the comments this time. 

On that note, here are some thoughts:

PDT is not a super strong tower. This is a false notion. Try placing just a PDT tower (without the specific bow) and without Serenity Aura Purge Evil. Then see how it well it does.

After you see that fail, Go ahead & add the huntress bow, but don't use SAPE (Serenity Aura Purge Evil). You will still need DPS as support or other towers as support in order to win.


I don't use serenity with PDT anymore cause i realized its not needed.  I can win most maps with only PDTs. If i struggle ill add a snake wall or lava wall and its GG afk. The reason ?

high end Purge does like 12k-18k dmg per explosion if i remember right. My PDT  does 29k poison dmg per tick and it ticks very fast. Most little *** minions have like 30-50k hp so they die in 1 or 2 ticks which means less than 1-2 seconds from when the first one gets hit with PDT they all die regardless of purge. 

That's at T1. If you cut out all the other towers you can do T2 or T3 PDTs on wave 1. It will 1 shot explode everything that isn't beefy. Anything with more than 300k HP might get to live a few seconds.

The slow from SA is useful for PDT but really if you have a good toxic shot and place your PDT in a decent spot most things will start dying long before they even get to the PDT.

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@Pegazul quote:


@SpiderDanX quote:

TLDR, don't care to read all of the comments this time. 

On that note, here are some thoughts:

PDT is not a super strong tower. This is a false notion. Try placing just a PDT tower (without the specific bow) and without Serenity Aura Purge Evil. Then see how it well it does.

After you see that fail, Go ahead & add the huntress bow, but don't use SAPE (Serenity Aura Purge Evil). You will still need DPS as support or other towers as support in order to win.


I don't use serenity with PDT anymore cause i realized its not needed.  I can win most maps with only PDTs. If i struggle ill add a snake wall or lava wall and its GG afk. The reason ?

high end Purge does like 12k-18k dmg per explosion if i remember right. My PDT  does 29k poison dmg per tick and it ticks very fast. Most little *** minions have like 30-50k hp so they die in 1 or 2 ticks which means less than 1-2 seconds from when the first one gets hit with PDT they all die regardless of purge. 

That's at T1. If you cut out all the other towers you can do T2 or T3 PDTs on wave 1. It will 1 shot explode everything that isn't beefy. Anything with more than 300k HP might get to live a few seconds.

The slow from SA is useful for PDT but really if you have a good toxic shot and place your PDT in a decent spot most things will start dying long before they even get to the PDT.

PDT's have an additional bug at the moment anyway, they also slow XD

So even less reason for SA's.

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@Random Asian quote:

::Quote point 1::

Old Veterans who didn't get filled in with updates months ago? Newbies who didn't bother to utilize combos or take time to farm proper gear passives or build a DPS character? Back in my days we only had FrostyTrap Meta as a viable build and only Huntress was Viable dps character.Nowadays more setups are actually viable but still need HeroDps to ensure it won't fail assuming its not PDT. Some of the Hero Dps Options nowadays can handle a Nm4 lane by themselves because they're insanely strong. I don't see how PDT nerf would make Nightmare impossible at all. I've seen a Nm3 geared player beat a Nm4 map before PDT was Meta but he had to put effort in upgrading that gear and having good passives which he worked for)

::Quote point 2::

E) People need to farm gear and PDT makes it easier so they can get gear for other builds! (A small fraction of the playerbase does this. I doubt most of us are actually going to them in public games a lot while PDT is so hard to resist. We need to shove people to use their gear for other builds so there is more diversity because everyone


You nailed my issue to a 'T' with point 1... Most builds will fail without a hero DPS. While I like having the synergy between towers and hero's in this game the issue I'm finding is how the gear drops are generated (and off the recent update we have a good insight as to how they're going to drop in the future). So because of this if i'm trying to gear the new dryad for example, I have to be playing that character just in case the RNG gods bless me with the item I'm looking for. This will be even more an issue when they introduce gear locking to the character being played at the time.  

The argument there is just get multiple of the same character however that involves buying a shed tonne of slots, now I AM one of the original veteran players returning due to the new content. For a returning or new player I've got to save up a HUGE amount of medals, or fork out a small fortune so that I can get at least 16 character slots just to have a builder and DPS version of each character to gear farm. Just NO that isn't fun....
On that note, so what if I'm a returning player that's missed updates. Who want's to pick up a game then spend hours reading missed patch notes?!?! It's a moot point anyway when the enemies end game have resistances to a bunch of tower effects and combo's. (Tenacious, grounded etc)

Point 2 is pretty much me in a nutshell.... I'm trying to farm gear for character's to get them up to scratch after returning (since Geyser - lightning aura combo now seems to be useless now). And because of that PDT is the only way for me to finish levels and collect gear. And I'm not going to lie having to use them SUCKS!, I want to cover enemies in bee's!!!

This brings me to my own point which I know has been mentioned before... SO MANY TOWERS ARE BUGGED OUT!!! too many of them aren't working as intended it's completely impossible to say something is rubbish since a huge amount of the towers aren't performing as intended (bee's AI or slimes getting stuck for example).

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