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Fozzie

Please please please Trendy make the game a challenge soon

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You can go onto any NM4 map these days and see the most BS builds ever, all centered around PDTs or course.

These builds shouldn't be successful but with the current state of the game, PDT + anything = GG is the formula being used.

Isn't it about time this crutch was removed and people had to think about what they build, BEFORE the end game revamp.

If PDT \Toxic Shock stay in as it is currently the end game revamp is severely hampered.


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Honestly the game in its current state is easy no matter what.  PDT or no.

Even if the PDT gets a "nerf"  the game will be piss on nm4 and still requires 0 thinking on what to do/build.

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@Felkuro quote:

Honestly the game in its current state is easy no matter what.  PDT or no.

Even if the PDT gets a "nerf"  the game will be piss on nm4 and still requires 0 thinking on what to do/build.

I agree, but again thats just because all new hereos are overtuned. Its a case of slowly but surely nerfing all the new heroes (wont happen), and they can start with PDT's.

Alternatively, they buff old heroes to the point of the new heroes (doubt they will do that) and then make the content harder.

What I see happening, new heroes stay at the top, PDT gets nerfed, content gets harder and the old heroes get a slight buff. The end result being; a more challenging experience for those who purchase new heroes, extremely challenging for anyone who doesn't, with the possibility of some maps being impossible for pure Old hero decks. 

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The game IS hard without PDTs. The issue is that you guys with 328746582376 hours played and with ipwr 9001 gear want enemies that insta-kill the universe and lanes that only spawn goku.

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@Nefhith quote:

The game IS hard without PDTs. The issue is that you guys with 328746582376 hours played and with ipwr 9001 gear want enemies that insta-kill the universe and lanes that only spawn goku.

You know what, to some extent you have a point. It is hard when you have the original 4 (and do not use PDTs), pets arnt maxed, you cant afford to max out gear to 43/43, you have far from all the spheres needed due to gold and medal shortages... and so on.

However that should not mean that people who have sunk the hours in should not also have a challenge, and that challenge will be there for all those guys currently struggling once they have put in the hours and have the gear, pets, spheres, new heroes etc.

So I do agree with you, but we shouldnt forget about the "long long term".

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[[52650,users]] If your waiting for a end game like DD1 then you will be disappointed. Remember when NM4 in DD2 was a good challenge before the nerf? Look what happen there. Remember when huntress traps was dominate? Look what did not happen there. Oh do let me get started with Betsy. She was hardcore before her nerf that happen twice not once but twice. Do you see where this is going. End game revamp will be meh..

Most dedicated players are waiting for end revamp but not I. The reason is I know it will be nerf. I'm waiting for the the full release of the game whenever god knows that will happen.

[[150185,users]] Hey monk master! Are you ready for end game revamp? Before you reply I will leave you with a spoiler: everyone need to refarm their gear and Trendy will lose 1/3 of it's population again...

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@LukeAsh22016 quote:

Zimmermann Hey monk master! Are you ready for end game revamp? Before you reply I will leave you with a spoiler: everyone need to refarm their gear and Trendy will lose 1/3 of it's population again...

If I have to refarm for the same ipwr and performance due to some silly changes then I would be mad. If I get to keep my current 750 gear and go into NM5 to progress and get new higher ipwr gear 800+ then I will be super excited! Gear that I have now is simply for that battle through new "content" (same maps, new challenges), and if it helps me get better gear, it has done its job.

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@Zimmermann quote:



If I have to refarm for the same ipwr and performance due to some silly changes then I would be mad.

Then you are going to be very upset monk master. I remember when loot change about 4 or 5 times. On the 5th time during the harbinger update. Most players left because they had to refarm their gear. if Trendy going to pull the same stunt. You will see their steam chart drop. That is why many players try to tell Trendy work on the core game.


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@Nefhith quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

 NM5

Come on, we don't want more nightmare modes.

If I am not mistaken they confirmed this in a devstream at some point. Anyway I am sure they will add some DD1 type toggles to turn on and off stuff for better gear. But I htink NM5, or at least a revamped NM4 with higher ipwr rewards and requirements, in other words end gamers will all end up with gear thats good for NM3. This would also be fine in my eyes.

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@Nefhith quote:

The game IS hard without PDTs. The issue is that you guys with 328746582376 hours played and with ipwr 9001 gear want enemies that insta-kill the universe and lanes that only spawn goku.

That doesn't sound to bad!  Make it happen trendy!

I demand lanes with only GOKU!
For real though game is easy without PDT's. Just learn how to gear/combinations and you can easily afk  nm4 without the use of PDT's.

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I appreciate how this topic so quickly summarized the general flow of the same set of arguments we've seen for ages lol.

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@Vagnar quote:

I appreciate how this topic so quickly summarized the general flow of the same set of arguments we've seen for ages lol.

:D

One does not simply change ones arguments.

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The other night we did the Biome Incursion with 6 maxed out volcanos, no PDTs, frosty and buff beams/auras.  It was ridiculous(ly fun!).

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Honestly though, I don't envy any dev trying to do what Trendy is doing in today's market.


Games like this survive based on player retention, so you have to create something that can be substantial enough to keep the casual crowd playing and progressing and fun, but also appease that committed hardcore crowd, who completely trivialize content unless it's super brutal, which is a turnoff to anyone else, including hardcore gamers that just don't want to add another game to their rotation.


This and Warframe are my two most active games now, so I can empathize with that struggle when something else is trying to convince me to play. I have friends always pestering me to play ESO and Neverwinter, but those games would have to let me keep up with them with only like a few hours/week worth of playtime or I just don't see the point in playing at all, but that would ruin the game for the peeps that DO play them most likely lol.


Not really sure where I'm going with that aside from just imagining how exhausting that would be being the guy in charge of that and its success being what pays my bills.

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@Zimmermann quote:


@Felkuro quote:

Honestly the game in its current state is easy no matter what.  PDT or no.

Even if the PDT gets a "nerf"  the game will be piss on nm4 and still requires 0 thinking on what to do/build.

I agree, but again thats just because all new hereos are overtuned. Its a case of slowly but surely nerfing all the new heroes (wont happen), and they can start with PDT's.

Alternatively, they buff old heroes to the point of the new heroes (doubt they will do that) and then make the content harder.

What I see happening, new heroes stay at the top, PDT gets nerfed, content gets harder and the old heroes get a slight buff. The end result being; a more challenging experience for those who purchase new heroes, extremely challenging for anyone who doesn't, with the possibility of some maps being impossible for pure Old hero decks. 

I will give a small bit of input on this though... it's really most important they take the route that's the most fun, then balance around that.


I have way more fun with crazy towers and my double jumping flying super fast heroes than I do a sluggish game that's slow just to maintain balance. I'd much prefer the game be built from that "everyone is crazy strong" baseline and amp up the challenge from there. If everything OP, nothing is OP kind of apprach (as long as the content keeps pace)


PDT is overpowered, but if it was 100% up to me, I wouldn't nerf it. I'd just keep ramping up the game to match it, because more options means they can start getting sadistic with enemy designs and map layouts. I know there are limitations to that though, and I'll honestly roll with whatever they do for now, but yeah. I'm not the one responsible for keeping the game updated, so it's easy to spout off lol. 

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When the item revamp happens some people will not sing the same tune as Trendy. I'm calling it now a refarm on gear will not be kind. To think Trendy will release the carnival and Terraria without fix any core mechanics is outstanding. Who cares about defenses bugs when can't even connect to the servers. Who cares about end game when the enemies hug you and tickle you at the spots you don't want to be tickle at. Laughable new enemies and bosses. The list goes on.

Where is the PVP while we wait for revamp. Where is the cool player shops. The forums is mostly dead because we have no trading. If we had trading at least we can talk about something different. Where is the host control and finally where is the challenge. I'm not talking about a hard challenge but a challenge that take tactics. I thought this was a tower defense game that promote strategy. One more thing where is the builder weapons!!!!!!

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[[157895,users]], I dont really want to go into this again as I think we both know each others opinions on this. But ramping up the game to keep up with PDT is just adding a 0's to your numbers, because ultimately if their is a challenge then that feeling of OP that PDT's might give you will vanish. 

But I do not care if they nerf or buff, as long as there is some level of balance... I dont even care if all towers are twice as strong as the towers I use, as I will still be able to complete all maps with that.  I just dont want this status quo to continue where there is only new heroes with one or two insanely overpowered towers each and PDT as reliable options in multiplayer. 

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Nono when I say ramp up, I don't mean numbers. I mean actual enemy design, AI, etc.


Honestly, the actual numbers stuff does is irrelevant to me. I've played games where doing 200 dps was godly, and games where hitting for billions of damage was so common it just became screen decorations that made things look busier than they were.


When I say ramp up, I mean actual enemy AI and tactics. Giving us a powerful and diverse arsenal (aka Toxic Shock applying full poison damage to everything hit by an explosion, not the actual damage/tick) lets TE come up with even more insane scenarios. Toning our toolset down also forces enemies to not be able to reach their full potential either.


That's more what I meant. The actual damage and health values are frankly fairly arbitrary to me. As long as our tools can get the job done and they can punish us for doing our job poorly, that's all that ultimately matters. I just want a crazy game.

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[[157895,users]], ahh I understand I was always a bit baffled by your opinion on PDTs "staying the same", when in reality you mean keep the way it works rather then the damage it does. I agree the concept of toxic shock is pretty cool along with PDT's DoT. 

I would 100% like to see more weapons like that added to other tower builds, but without being game breaking like the current state of PDT.

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I always felt like one good hard counter to Toxic Shock would be to make certain enemies be healed by DoT effects, so if you were going to use it, you had to account for the fact certain units would love to get hit by that poison, and the fact that that explosion radius was so big, it'd be pretty hard to prevent. Imagine the two Skeleton minibosses having that much health regen because you were careless, especially if Slekeleon didn't lose the regen between rounds.


And that would just be one of many various issues you may run into across the many possible build options, so it wouldn't be a simple solution. In some form or another, you have to manually intervene because your defenses, while powerful, have met their match.


Edit: But yeah, I've always been talking about functionality in nerf debates. They hit way too hard lol. I just don't want them to obliterate how it works too.

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They have all the mechanics in the game to make it a challenge.

Malthius healing circles, Maldonis marks with higher damage and tower damage, Betsy curse areas, all these can significantly affect the viability of a build.

Buffed versions of Trollblood, hearty, speedy etc

Immunities like in DD1 would make PDT only builds moot. 

All this stuff is easy to put in with the multipliers they are talking about.

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I miss the crazy DD1 builds of rapid fire harpoons, and bowling alleys of hundreds of bouncing balls, when we could make a hero fun and usable! (with out people hacking to have 1 aura covering the whole map 1 hitting every thing)

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