I'm having trouble justifying 30 DU for a niche Wall (World Tree)

Went through the test version (fantastic idea btw), and I found that Dryad does not sync with other Heroes at all due to her Tower requirements.  Wherever a World Tree is placed, you'll want to maximize that space with her defenses, and ideally with a dps Dryad covering that lane as well.

Building anything else within the World Tree space is a waste of potential, and you're not gonna replace Orc Wall or Training Dummy with a World Tree for the sake of 2 or 3 Towers.  Despite her being a much more active dps/builder hybrid (which I absolutely love), she feels very lonely due to her complete lack of synergy.

If a Dryad builds in a lane, it has to be her alone and nothing else, including the wall, b/c to attempt otherwise is a colossal waste of DU.

Why is it a waste to place anything other than her defenses in that space? That'd only be true if her towers were that much better than everyones, in which case, why place other towers?

That's kindof my point.  If you are going to use the WT, why would you not take full advantage of it?  If her Towers are good enough to justify WT + only 1 or 2 others, you should use her for the whole build.  If they are not that good, you'll want to fill that space with her stuff to get the most use of your DU otherwise.

@Immortal-D quote:

That's kindof my point.  If you are going to use the WT, why would you not take full advantage of it?  If her Towers are good enough to justify WT + only 1 or 2 others, you should use her for the whole build.  If they are not that good, you'll want to fill that space with her stuff to get the most use of your DU otherwise.

Honestly, her tree is more of a support blockade than a real one. If you make a dedicated Tree builder, her Tree spheres (specifically World Tree McBufferson and Natures Growth) are really good to assist another wall. Then you have another Dryad speced for Tower Damage (/Tower Crit damage, seems to be the best secondary stat) and use her to build.

Thus, I see her being a really good character in areas that need more than just 1 Blockade... for example, the Forest Biome or Bastille maps.

@TMTrainer quote:Thus, I see her being a really good character in areas that need more than just 1 Blockade... for example, the Forest Biome or Bastille maps.

Which brings me back to the DU conundrum.  Using Tower Boost Aura with the Wall HP Sphere means I never need more than 1 Wall per lane, and the Aura benefits everything else I can throw in there.  Plus, even if you don't have super Walls, the most minimal of attention paid to repairs & upgrades means you'd be hard pressed to lose anything.

Whereas the WT, as you say, is more of a supporting blockade, and at that point, why bother?  Don't get me wrong, I really really want to like her (huge Terraria fan), I'm just struggling to find her place due to a complete lack of synergy with other Heroes.

@Immortal-D quote:

Which brings me back to the DU conundrum.  Using Tower Boost Aura with the Wall HP Sphere means I never need more than 1 Wall per lane, and the Aura benefits everything else I can throw in there.  Plus, even if you don't have super Walls, the most minimal of attention paid to repairs & upgrades means you'd be hard pressed to lose anything.

Whereas the WT, as you say, is more of a supporting blockade, and at that point, why bother?  Don't get me wrong, I really really want to like her (huge Terraria fan), I'm just struggling to find her place due to a complete lack of synergy with other Heroes.

Admittedly, I just finished gearing 1 Dryad (680 TD/TcD build) and I'm working to see where she fits. I'm having issues fitting her into low DU maps atm (Griblok's Horde is my go-to for testing stuff). Not going to lie, 30 DU is pretty steep for a blockade. I'd already love to see it buffed to 20 DU, or a Sphere added to where it costs less DU but perhaps use less HP.

AT THE SAME TIME the World Tree's Aura...

@iamisom quote:
Ability Four - World Tree: The World Tree provides the power that the Dryad needs to summon her defenses. It restores 5% of a hero's max HP over time while giving +20% Hero Crit Damage and +10% Hero Crit Chance to nearby heroes.

So it can definitely see use in other places, not just in for normal trash. Using her Hornets and Cloud, they definitely seem like a 'boss beater' (Ogres) over other towers and the Hero Crit damage and Hero Crit Chance encourages active game play.

No the sphere does not stack 

@TMTrainer quote:

@iamisom quote:
Ability Four - World Tree: The World Tree provides the power that the Dryad needs to summon her defenses. It restores 5% of a hero's max HP over time while giving +20% Hero Crit Damage and +10% Hero Crit Chance to nearby heroes.

So it can definitely see use in other places, not just in for normal trash. Using her Hornets and Cloud, they definitely seem like a 'boss beater' (Ogres) over other towers and the Hero Crit damage and Hero Crit Chance encourages active game play.

I missed that in the notes.  That is a huge plus for ranged DPS, and to a lesser extent melee for the times when an Ogre or mini-boss actually gets that close.  Definitely a point in the Tree's favor.  That said however, in terms of sheer Hero power, Serenity Aura is unquestionably better for the simple fact that it can't be hit.

The more I play her in test mode (and think about this discussion), the more I feel that her Tree should function like Healing Well; uses Ability Mana, allows Dryad Towers, minor healing, boosts Hero DPS, can't be hit.

PandynatorDD I lol'd :D

@Immortal-D quote:

@TMTrainer quote:

@iamisom quote:
Ability Four - World Tree: The World Tree provides the power that the Dryad needs to summon her defenses. It restores 5% of a hero's max HP over time while giving +20% Hero Crit Damage and +10% Hero Crit Chance to nearby heroes.

So it can definitely see use in other places, not just in for normal trash. Using her Hornets and Cloud, they definitely seem like a 'boss beater' (Ogres) over other towers and the Hero Crit damage and Hero Crit Chance encourages active game play.

I missed that in the notes.  That is a huge plus for ranged DPS, and to a lesser extent melee for the times when an Ogre or mini-boss actually gets that close.  Definitely a point in the Tree's favor.  That said however, in terms of sheer Hero power, Serenity Aura is unquestionably better for the simple fact that it can't be hit.

The more I play her in test mode (and think about this discussion), the more I feel that her Tree should function like Healing Well; uses Ability Mana, allows Dryad Towers, minor healing, boosts Hero DPS, can't be hit.

PandynatorDD I lol'd :D

The problem is then it steps on the other towers a bit too hard. I'd like to see a small buff to the Tree alongside the bug fix (the Sphere that gives shields to blockades does not work with other World Trees). Perhaps a small DU reduction. In addition to that, perhaps a small DU buff to other maps if more characters are released with synergy like this. It's not a bad thing by any means, but with the nerf to DU on maps, it makes it hard to set up with more expensive builds.

Before she even came out I speculated she'd be a "core" builder. Use other towers to support her builds, but she isn't ideal as a support to another builder.

Honestly fine with that. It'll be interesting designing maps around her vs just making a few tweaks to my standard build like I've done with the other heroes.

Well i don't have my dryads 50 yet, but for me the wall is pretty much the best part already.

The crit chance and crit damage + heal is actually super sweet. That you can use it as a wall is an extra bonus in my eyes, while the first part is HUGE. Less playing it as a wall (except you want it) but more as a serenity aura with damage increase in the crit area. Which makes any crit type hero really love it (my crit huntress, crit dps monk, gunwitch!)

I mean ... a wall and a serenity combined? So sweet for an active player :d and that only for 30 DU!

What dreamanime said. I LOVED hugging the tree inside a hero boosting serenity aura and seeing big red numbers pop all over the map with my huntress.

It being a wall is a HUGE plus.

I'm having the opposite problem, I don't think I'll be using any other wall anytime soon. I mean, my Dryad waller is only 702 iPWR thanks to upgrading 660-700ish items, only has 6% World Tree health on the totem, and her wall has just over 600k hp at max rank, 302k base.

Sure, it has less hp than my 680 iPWR waller mystic's 722k hp without even having a pet equipped. But still, 600k+ is completely fine for a wall. What's more, as previously mentioned it gives an aoe heal and hero dps buff. Most importantly of all though, it only takes 130 green mana to max. Not sure if it's supposed to be that way, but even if they fix it, it'll be 180 green mana instead. So, while the Dryad wall might have slightly less hp for the same cost, it more than makes up for it in buffs, heals, and the fact that it takes ~400 less green mana per blockade to max.  

It is, hands down, the most DU/green mana efficient wall in the game atm, even ignoring the buffs it gives. It might be the first OP wall in this game.

@Immortal-D quote:

That's kindof my point.  If you are going to use the WT, why would you not take full advantage of it?  If her Towers are good enough to justify WT + only 1 or 2 others, you should use her for the whole build.  If they are not that good, you'll want to fill that space with her stuff to get the most use of your DU otherwise.

The same argument could be used against absolutely any hero. Why ever use the second-best hero if you can use the best?

The answer, of course, is that different heroes are able to utilize different mechanics. If you want to slow enemies down or stun them so they bunch up before being pierced by harpy feathers, you mix in a Frost Tower or Sand Trap. If you want to combo with the tar effect from the slimes, you add a Fire Tower or Fire Baloon. If your towers just need a bit more power, have a monk drop a buff-stick in there.

Some of these ideas work better in theory than in practice, but that's not a conceptual flaw, it's a matter of balance.

Accommodating different tastes and playstyles is always a factor too. I won't lie. I don't like EV AT ALL, and Mystic didn't quite live up to what I was expecting either. Obelisks are nice and all, but I could go withoht. So far, Dryad fits a lot more in what I thought Mystic would be like from a tower perspective, and I'm genuinely having fun using her just like when I first got Gunwitch, and the first week LM was out before he got slapped back inline and lost that insanity factor and was demoted to tower duty.

She's also arguably the tankiest character in the game in Purification mode.

@Immortal-D quote:

Went through the test version (fantastic idea btw), and I found that Dryad does not sync with other Heroes at all due to her Tower requirements.  Wherever a World Tree is placed, you'll want to maximize that space with her defenses, and ideally with a dps Dryad covering that lane as well.

Building anything else within the World Tree space is a waste of potential, and you're not gonna replace Orc Wall or Training Dummy with a World Tree for the sake of 2 or 3 Towers.  Despite her being a much more active dps/builder hybrid (which I absolutely love), she feels very lonely due to her complete lack of synergy.

If a Dryad builds in a lane, it has to be her alone and nothing else, including the wall, b/c to attempt otherwise is a colossal waste of DU.

You should read her spheres first

Very interesting.  Does anyone have some baseline stats comparing Tree to Orc & Spikes?  If the previous posts are to be believed, sounds like World Tree not only matches other walls, but completely stomps them.  In which case, my original concern is completely turned around; no longer 'WT is a niche wall', but 'WT is insanely better than everything else'.

Tree costs the same as spike blockade and has about the same HP at baseline.

The big difference is Tree costs 50 mana to upgrade every time and only has 3 upgrades.

So if you want low cheap upgrades tree is good. If u need high max upgrades then tree is worse.

It's an excellent wall for builds that want a wall but aren't reliant on them as much. 

I've come to the conclusion snakes are the worst wall by far in a functional sense. They offer no benefit whatsoever to anything they can't lift. They have a bit more health than blockades, but are too inconsistent if you're wanting to stick to a specific wall for your builds. 

For 30 DU, Spike if you don't manually DPS or use Dryad towers, WT otherwise imho.

This is a major simplification and over reaction, and it's just not true.

Hmm.  For the amount of damage Heroes are outputting now, I'm wondering if the Orc Wall has become obsolete in the face of World Tree.

@Immortal-D quote:

Hmm.  For the amount of damage Heroes are outputting now, I'm wondering if the Orc Wall has become obsolete in the face of World Tree.

It's less about what benefits you get from a wall, its more about how you feel towards a certain wall and how you like it's design and what it does, like any wall is fine but some people prefer certain things.

If you feeling aligned with nature and love to hug trees like elfs mating in the summer wind then the tree is your best friend, or even a whole forest.

If you like it more spicy and spiky the good old barricade will bring you the most joy.

If you like stuff to get really hard like a rock which you can crush down afterwards because its actually pretty soft then, then the Maw from the lavamancer will give you a really good ride through the maps.

But then there are these types of people who love bony stuff with not much meat on them. The Orc walls probably are your choice then.

You are playfull and love to experiment around alot like with magic? App wall or dummys are there for your delight.

@dreamanime quote:

@Immortal-D quote:

Hmm.  For the amount of damage Heroes are outputting now, I'm wondering if the Orc Wall has become obsolete in the face of World Tree.

It's less about what benefits you get from a wall, its more about how you feel towards a certain wall and how you like it's design and what it does, like any wall is fine but some people prefer certain things.

If you feeling aligned with nature and love to hug trees like elfs mating in the summer wind then the tree is your best friend, or even a whole forest.

If you like it more spicy and spiky the good old barricade will bring you the most joy.

If you like stuff to get really hard like a rock which you can crush down afterwards because its actually pretty soft then, then the Maw from the lavamancer will give you a really good ride through the maps.

But then there are these types of people who love bony stuff with not much meat on them. The Orc walls probably are your choice then.

You are playfull and love to experiment around alot like with magic? App wall or dummys are there for your delight.

You forgot my favorite. If you like snakes and bubbles and poison then snake walls are your thing :)

*sniffle*  That was beautiful >.<

imho, after doing a bit of testing...

If you need 2 walls, doing 1 'main' wall (the one you expect to take the most damage) alongside the tree seems to work amazingly well. I love the idea of the tree being a 'support' wall when you have all the spheres equipped. I don't like the idea of the tree's single walling until they fix the shield sphere for the tree AND you have multiple trees in their sphere of influence.

In addition, it seems like every tower, except for Slimes, out Single Target DPS PDTs when on a level playing field (if PDTs are boosted, these towers need boosted similarly) and built for crit damage. My Harpies are pulling (if my math is right) almost double the DPS of the PDTs (on single target damage) so I definitely see Dryad's towers being core in my builds for now on. I love her towers, amazing looking and functional to boot. Slimes seem to out burst-AoE mobs if they get too close, but I havn't found an effective spot in my build for them to do major testing yet.