New content announced, to hype or not to hype?

@Zimmermann quote:

LOL this is coming out on the 15th... with no end game, balance or bug fixes in sight....

Trying to bring in new players now is just so stupid when the game is still hemorrhaging players, they should be fixing their fundamentals first.

In addition to this, it appears our 3 week wait for a single bug fix will be extending to 4 weeks now... as the first bug they fixed was not fixed, and the second bug they fixed was a work around that always worked.... so zero fixing thus far.

A list shorter then 30 bug fixes, and I include multi player lag and Frostbite towers in that need to be fixed in their next "bug fixing patch" if I am able to keep any hope they are taking this *** seriously. If not, we may as well expect DDE 2.0.

Careful not to criticize around these parts, logical posts like yours are sure to get some bull*** response about how trendy is starving and they have to make money too. (If they spent as much time fixing bugs, and working on end game, as they do pumping heroes out, we'd probably have a pretty solid/balanced game post-max level. 

Bring on the ***-talking, my body is ready.

@Tristaris quote:

Careful not to criticize around these parts, logical posts like yours are sure to get some bull*** response about how trendy is starving and they have to make money too. (If they spent as much time fixing bugs, and working on end game, as they do pumping heroes out, we'd probably have a pretty solid/balanced game post-max level. 

Bring on the ***-talking, my body is ready.

The thing is, I want them to make money... I want them to make money by having a game that works and attracts players.

750 players on steam charts is not good... they are losing about 20% of their player base every month with last month, the month of the "campaign revamp" gaining 1.5%. Now sure those numbers could be wrong, and they don't include console players, but the trend is, the numbers are getting smaller... and to be honest... I am worried, I am worried this game will not last.

@Zimmermann quote:

@Tristaris quote:

Careful not to criticize around these parts, logical posts like yours are sure to get some bull*** response about how trendy is starving and they have to make money too. (If they spent as much time fixing bugs, and working on end game, as they do pumping heroes out, we'd probably have a pretty solid/balanced game post-max level. 

Bring on the ***-talking, my body is ready.

The thing is, I want them to make money... I want them to make money by having a game that works and attracts players.

750 players on steam charts is not good... they are losing about 20% of their player base every month with last month, the month of the "campaign revamp" gaining 1.5%. Now sure those numbers could be wrong, and they don't include console players, but the trend is, the numbers are getting smaller... and to be honest... I am worried, I am worried this game will not last.

Exactly. I want them to do well too. But I have to also ask myself, do I enjoy it? Do I feel that I'm getting my moneys worth? 

At the end of the day, I decide to vote with my wallet. That doesn't mean I don't care about the game, nor want it to crash and burn. That means I want time to be spent elsewhere, than having a laundry list of heroes I honestly care nothing about until the core game, is fun to me. 

Hey if people enjoy the game for what it is right now, by all means, continue to do so. I'm not stopping it, I don't want to stop it, but it's not going to stop me from voicing my opinion on what I feel is much more important than yet another hero to buy, when the balance of the current hero/towers is ridiculous at best.

Don't even get me started on the fact that there still isn't skins for towers either, and it's been how long now?

Yeah I'm not really that worried atm. I'd need hard evidence on what they're doing and how their sales meet their projections and stuff before saying they're making the wrong choices.

If they say they're fixing/working on bugs, I'll just accept it for now. To claim otherwise is just speculation.

well then...

@Zimmermann quote:

LOL this is coming out on the 15th... with no end game, balance or bug fixes in sight....

Trying to bring in new players now is just so stupid when the game is still hemorrhaging players, they should be fixing their fundamentals first.

Bugs in the Hot Issues section are the bugs we're hoping to fix in the Terraria update, so bug fixes are in sight. And of course, we fix bugs that aren't on the site, like we did in our previous patch. Also, we've already mentioned that the update after this one is endgame, which will hopefully also have some balance changes. 

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If our community wants Dungeon Defenders II to be successful, updates like the Terraria update (which is focused on attracting new players) and a fundamental update like Phase 3 (which is focused on keeping hardcore players happy) are what's going to bring that success. They both have to happen. The Terraria update is not "just another hero" -- it's literally focused on improving player numbers and generating more attention for the game. It's aimed at attracting another community that has a massive overlap from the community of our first game to come try out a game they'll most likely be interested in. (And to be clear, this is probably going to be our last hero for a bit as we move into Phase 3 and Phase 4. The Dryad happened because it helped us meet our goals.)

KnowsNoLimits said it perfectly. There are multiple approaches to improving the game, and we're trying to nail them all. 

@littleLEBOWSKI quote:

Not even remotely hyped.

^^^this. I played Terraria and I don't like it at all. I don't enjoy it in any way. However, I understand Trendy wants to grow their player base and Terraria does have a huge player base. So, I can't blame them.

@iamisom quote:

@Zimmermann quote:

LOL this is coming out on the 15th... with no end game, balance or bug fixes in sight....

Trying to bring in new players now is just so stupid when the game is still hemorrhaging players, they should be fixing their fundamentals first.

Bugs in the Hot Issues section are the bugs we're hoping to fix in the Terraria update, so bug fixes are in sight. And of course, we fix bugs that aren't on the site, like we did in our previous patch. Also, we've already mentioned that the update after this one is endgame, which will hopefully also have some balance changes. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If our community wants Dungeon Defenders II to be successful, updates like the Terraria update (which is focused on attracting new players) and a fundamental update like Phase 3 (which is focused on keeping hardcore players happy) are what's going to bring that success. They both have to happen. The Terraria update is not "just another hero" -- it's literally focused on improving player numbers and generating more attention for the game. It's aimed at attracting another community that has a massive overlap from the community of our first game to come try out a game they'll most likely be interested in. (And to be clear, this is probably going to be our last hero for a bit as we move into Phase 3 and Phase 4. The Dryad happened because it helped us meet our goals.)

KnowsNoLimits said it perfectly. There are multiple approaches to improving the game, and we're trying to nail them all. 

This is overall good to know. But, at the same time, makes me sad for the Barbarian.

[[39695,users]] How could you not like Terraria?! D:

I suppose that a valid question. I can pm you my why's. No need to post here, as I suspect a potential to be blasted by Terraria loving folk. :-)

iamisom Yup, see I knew what Phase 2 was going to be about. I will admit I got abit cheesed hearing about it at first, my thought process was "great just another hyped up thing intended for new players soley again, just like the Campaign revamp".

 I understand why you are bringing in a crossover though and the thing I like best about this cross over is that it's finally bringing back some personality and humor to your game. New character, weapons, map, enemy and boss all tie into that.

Now moving onto Phase 3. The reason  why I'm excited for that is to finally have some hardcore player focused content. I'm realistic though, I know this is the beginning of said changes. I expect simple things such as new/existing core enemies with actual scaling to them and half a brain. Hardcore mode would be nice to have return, although I'm not counting on it.

I make it no secret. I loathe your NM system and I'm not sold on your incremental difficulties fueld by gimmicky ideals to make them stand out. I just rather have all of it condensed in one NM mode again, then poor on the pain and thankfully alot of other people feel the same way.

I'm hoping phase 4 is to do with Onslaught, because boy does that mode need help. You have no real objective to attain, enemies don't scale significantly, you have 2 useless enemy rounds where nothing drops and infinite waves just leads to boredom. I'm not going to go into more detail, you guys are well aware of the issues.

I lastly want to mention one more thing that I hope you don't overlook. End game to me isn't just about difficulty, it's about a hook. You need other things to keep end game players interested in your game besides grinding and getting smashed up.

The loot system in this game is well trash atm, you just have way too much RNG to contend with. So that needs a major revamp. End game loot needs to be rare and actually rewarding and exciting to attain, having Legendary loot appear so commonly trivializes that. You need to look at the bigger picture and find that hook. It shouldn't soley be loot, but other things you can do ingame to keep the established player interested.

That's what end game means to me.

Hate to break it to you guys, but the player bug submission is only a sheer decimal place of the amount of bugs that get caught and dealt with accordingly.  There is a LOT going on behind the scenes that involve multiple groups of people working at on a daily basis.  Acting like your few bugs you found on live is the end all be all indicator that stuff isn't happening or being resolved is ludicrous to say the least.

Honestly, if you want to be more involved, apply to one of the many testing groups.  Don't just make claims that nothings happening because our NDA prevents us from telling you the depths of stuff we've seen and dealt with between multiple testing groups and internal groups working at the Trendy offices.  If you want to see what's behind the veil and make an impact directly, that's the route to go.

Dear folks thinking we're not fixing bugs this update,

These are the current (but not final!) public submitted bug fixes coming with the update.

There is also hundreds of non-public bugs that will be fixed and included.

Thanks!

@Dani quote:

Dear folks thinking we're not fixing bugs this update,

These are the current (but not final!) public submitted bug fixes coming with the update.

There is also hundreds of non-public bugs that will be fixed and included.

Thanks!

BOOYAH The 24/7 whiners

[[25251,users]], that is fantastic news, but lets be clear plays don't complain for fun, bugs have existed for months on end with no sight of a fix for a long long time. It is completely reasonable when this happens, I could go into detail but I don't want to bring down a positive like this and "whine" just for the sake of digging my heels in when the reality is I only care about results, and the results right now look good.

As long as Onslaught gets, at some point, replaced by DD1's survival mode, I'll be welcoming any update.

@roboticaust quote:

Hate to break it to you guys, but the player bug submission is only a sheer decimal place of the amount of bugs that get caught and dealt with accordingly.  There is a LOT going on behind the scenes that involve multiple groups of people working at on a daily basis.  Acting like your few bugs you found on live is the end all be all indicator that stuff isn't happening or being resolved is ludicrous to say the least.

Honestly, if you want to be more involved, apply to one of the many testing groups.  Don't just make claims that nothings happening because our NDA prevents us from telling you the depths of stuff we've seen and dealt with between multiple testing groups and internal groups working at the Trendy offices.  If you want to see what's behind the veil and make an impact directly, that's the route to go.

Look i'm gonna be blunt, I don't like roboticaust, but he's not wrong and I have been saying this for months, if you care so much about bugs join the ***ing test team or stop complaining, apparently you don't care enough to do something about it.

@Zimmermann quote:

Dani, that is fantastic news, but lets be clear plays don't complain for fun, bugs have existed for months on end with no sight of a fix for a long long time. It is completely reasonable when this happens, I could go into detail but I don't want to bring down a positive like this and "whine" just for the sake of digging my heels in when the reality is I only care about results, and the results right now look good.

Are you sure about that? It certainly does seem like a lot of people on these forums do complain for fun. And make up things to complain about. And misrepresent reality in order to continue complaining that nothing ever changes.

@Zimmermann quote:

Dani, that is fantastic news, but lets be clear plays don't complain for fun, bugs have existed for months on end with no sight of a fix for a long long time. It is completely reasonable when this happens, I could go into detail but I don't want to bring down a positive like this and "whine" just for the sake of digging my heels in when the reality is I only care about results, and the results right now look good.

Some of those "persisting" bugs tend to be reoccurring bugs that have been addressed but manage to work their way back up under different circumstances as new things get added and code gets changed to accommodate it.  Then there are bugs that only happen under weird non100% replicable circumstances that are harder to pinpoint.  Good example of this is the merged heroes silliness.  Sure certain actions can trigger it, but not every single time those actions are taken.  Hard to address something that you can't exactly point a finger at and say "This is exactly why it's happening".

Let's be real here.  Trendy has added a lot of content the past 9 or so months.  Sure some bugs have crept in because of that, sure some have come back over time, sure balance has gone slightly off the mark; but that in no way means bugs aren't constantly being dealt with.  As I stated earlier, there are multiple groups dedicated to constantly tracking bugs, reporting them and classifying them.  Then there's interaction with the teams who can best deal with each bug on top of their already existing workload of getting new content ready for release.  Bugs are seriously being handled by everyone involved to a degree or another and there are things I just can't mention about other complaints that will be addressed in the future.

Simply put, chillax.  It's an early release game.  Good stuff is coming.

@roboticaust quote:

Welcome back I guess!

@MushroomCake28 quote:

@roboticaust quote:

Welcome back I guess!

Never left.  Just rarely feel the need to interact on the forums at this point.

@legion160 quote:

@roboticaust quote:

Hate to break it to you guys, but the player bug submission is only a sheer decimal place of the amount of bugs that get caught and dealt with accordingly.  There is a LOT going on behind the scenes that involve multiple groups of people working at on a daily basis.  Acting like your few bugs you found on live is the end all be all indicator that stuff isn't happening or being resolved is ludicrous to say the least.

Honestly, if you want to be more involved, apply to one of the many testing groups.  Don't just make claims that nothings happening because our NDA prevents us from telling you the depths of stuff we've seen and dealt with between multiple testing groups and internal groups working at the Trendy offices.  If you want to see what's behind the veil and make an impact directly, that's the route to go.

Look i'm gonna be blunt, I don't like roboticaust, but he's not wrong and I have been saying this for months, if you care so much about bugs join the ***ing test team or stop complaining, apparently you don't care enough to do something about it.

I have tried. Multiuple times. I have sent E-mails to the right person, but never get a response. I guess I can always send another E-mail....

@iamisom quote:

KnowsNoLimits said it perfectly. There are multiple approaches to improving the game, and we're trying to nail them all. 

STOP THE PRESSES DID YOU JUST AGREE AND VALIDATE ONE OF KNOWSNOLIMITS' POSTS.

@gigazelle quote:

@iamisom quote:

KnowsNoLimits said it perfectly. There are multiple approaches to improving the game, and we're trying to nail them all. 

STOP THE PRESSES DID YOU JUST AGREE AND VALIDATE ONE OF KNOWSNOLIMITS' POSTS.

Sure why would they not?

All my negative critique is always accompanied as to why and through point by point detailed explanations. It's never blind hate. The problem is alot of people don't like hearing the truth and I'm not ever going to sugar coat it no matter who you are.

This sums it up perfectly.

So I look forward in see what Phase 3 starts to deliver.

What and who they listened to regarding to what end game should be for DD2. Until then I can just enjoy the Terraria cross over in bites. So I will definitely check that out.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:The problem is alot of people don't like hearing the truth.

KNL = Jack Nicholson ... who knew?