Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Peekaboss

Walls Tier list

Recommended Posts

Edit*

Blockades are now above Viper walls again.
Due to. Automotion, Grounded waves and damage reduction spheres giving the blockade more effective HP

I still believe Training dummy trumps the squire blockade because it has 20 DU cost, but feel free to enlightenme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as orc walls go... I think they use to take aplified damage from getting hit in quick succesion? I've never seen anything about that changing, but I've noticed that both the Orc wall's damage modifier is no longer in its inspect window, as well as the "armor" stat spike barricades use to have.

As far as dummies go... If you're using dummies, you almost don't need walls imo. They are great just incase walls, but as far as security goes, smaller physical block and less HP than spike barricades, although seemingly higher aggro rates.

Apprentive walls will always be the most useles things imo just because of the downtime on them... If mobs didn't run past them after they explode, I'd love them as damaging walls, but I've never found a situation where I'd prefer them to just a training dummy for cheap walls, or Orc's for damaging walls.

But I REALLLY think you are under valuing lavamancer walls. The one thing that often goes unoticed is how much they get for upgrades. At T5, a single maw can indefinately lock down a lane that doesn't have tenacity (or an ogre, since they have inate tenacity - But they still get kept busy a good while), since they will start firing about the same time the enemy becomes unpetrified, at 5k+ range. Even if it does reach the wall, its too big for them to get around, and too beefy to go down usually.

This makes them the least cost efficient wall at T1, but I find them well worth their cost at T2 or T3, and incredibly useful for onslaught, where they can be allowed to reach T5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@dreamanime quote:

I use snake ones too because they have good HP, damage and cc.

But out of all walls i rate the Maw from Lavamancer the highest. It has really high HP if you go for it, and then it can turn enemies into stones (literally into other walls) and all monster around it will focus it and attack it. With that it's HP ratio is actually way higher because it just turns monster into walls too. And also increases the damage this mob receives. Which works well on bosses.

If the game turns into any situation where walls ever would really be needed (which i doubt simple because we have way to much strong CC) then Maw is the one to go for me probably.

i agree. Although Maw is high DU, it is very useful. When I do my super utility slow build, this is a requirement for that build as it adds to the "slow". As you said, it effectively turns enemies into walls & causes other enemies nearby to stop & attack it. "Thank you bad guys for joining my team for a moment!"

You can use these on any map & still have room for PB or PDT and SA. Maybe even room for other defenses, too. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@SpiderDanX quote:


@dreamanime quote:

I use snake ones too because they have good HP, damage and cc.

But out of all walls i rate the Maw from Lavamancer the highest. It has really high HP if you go for it, and then it can turn enemies into stones (literally into other walls) and all monster around it will focus it and attack it. With that it's HP ratio is actually way higher because it just turns monster into walls too. And also increases the damage this mob receives. Which works well on bosses.

If the game turns into any situation where walls ever would really be needed (which i doubt simple because we have way to much strong CC) then Maw is the one to go for me probably.

i agree. Although Maw is high DU, it is very useful. When I do my super utility slow build, this is a requirement for that build as it adds to the "slow". As you said, it effectively turns enemies into walls & causes other enemies nearby to stop & attack it. "Thank you bad guys for joining my team for a moment!"

You can use these on any map & still have room for PB or PDT and SA. Maybe even room for other defenses, too. :-)

Drake is still my favorite wall, but it does have a MASSIVE drawback. Ogres will buttslam petrified allies, so builds have to account for that, and on some maps, it's very inconvenient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Peekaboss quote:

Edit*

Blockades are now above Viper walls again.
Due to. Automotion, Grounded waves and damage reduction spheres giving the blockade more effective HP

I still believe Training dummy trumps the squire blockade because it has 20 DU cost, but feel free to enlightenme

Don't forget about harbinger sword that gives dummies teleport ability "Harbinger Void" it's like addind all dmg x2 for the teleported enemies.




@Zimmermann quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Zimmermann quote:


@MaJean quote:

Walls? Who needs walls?

Everyone who doesnt use IMBA towers. I use walls even with an average of 780 ipwr on my core builders and they do get destroyed from time to time.

You could also just use protons.... they are very wally. Thats what I do. And it kills mobs.

they are IMBA, I don't like IMBA :)

pardon me for not knowing, what is IMBA? International  Monumental Bobblehead Association?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Vagnar quote:



Drake is still my favorite wall, but it does have a MASSIVE drawback. Ogres will buttslam petrified allies, so builds have to account for that, and on some maps, it's very inconvenient.

And on some its super convenient :D. Literally Ogres smashing Ogres. Mmmh actually that fits fine to my Madness Mystic. The receive damage debuff from maw and madness stacks probably really well, it is half an additional lich after all, and killing bosses with bosses is awesome, they also can clean up all other mobs then too XD. Really should test this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@xArcAngel quote:

But I REALLLY think you are under valuing lavamancer walls. The one thing that often goes unoticed is how much they get for upgrades. At T5, a single maw can indefinately lock down a lane that doesn't have tenacity (or an ogre, since they have inate tenacity - But they still get kept busy a good while), since they will start firing about the same time the enemy becomes unpetrified, at 5k+ range. Even if it does reach the wall, its too big for them to get around, and too beefy to go down usually.

This makes them the least cost efficient wall at T1, but I find them well worth their cost at T2 or T3, and incredibly useful for onslaught, where they can be allowed to reach T5.

While i whole heartyingly agree, that they situationally are great. I'm sure they hold thier own and do something fancy for 80DU. 

However, if you are comparing what you get for 80 du in other departments,  (dummy, pdt, serenity) the Maw simply can't compete. 
I was abit of an onslaught specialist back during Frosty traps era (wave 68 nimbus reach) and many other 14hour + runs, Back then, every piece of DU was nessasary. We found ourselves, selling things at wave 30-40-50 etc, to add more anti air. As the difficulty increases. 
Maybe i've yet to see the full potential of the MAW in lets say, an Onslaught perspective, however i think that DU could be used much more efficiently, say (boost beams) or something of the sort.

I like the idea of the maw creating essentially 2x choke points, but for the 50-60 DU per lane, you could essentially, just make annother choke point for the same DU or add more damage/ CC to make up for everything the MAW brings to the table.

Cute mechanic, but i don't think i'm underating it in comparison .

If you were to go for a Maximum min maxed run, i think the squire blockade would trump overall, maybe even the training dummy although it comes at a risk of leaks. I can see the MAW being used in onslaught because there is less chance of something punching through it, climbing it or getting choked up so hard it gets pushed past it. however DU management they are too expensive for what you get.





@NomzoArashi quote:

I have to disagree with ranking of Apprentice walls. having recently switched my waller from squire to apprentice for multiple reasons. 

Lastly they draw aggro to themselves. I've seen monsters walk past my squire blockades like they weren't even there while Arcane Barriers will 'pulse' every second and goblins suddenly turn away from my towers next to the barrier and go for the wall instead. Saved my towers a few times when a goblin timed the explosion just right and got past the wall, immediately turned around and hit the barrier when it respawned. I've also noticed this on Orc skeletons as well so maybe all blockades do that and I've just had bad experience with squire. 

Regarding Apprentice walls. 
Just the factor that they leak, makes them less viable than other walls.  There nearest competitor is the Training dummy, while they have slightly more (if they even do) HP. They have less radius and often will need multiple walls to cover the same distance that a Training dummy does.  
If you are relying on your walls to do damage, you have a significant design flaw in your build. 
However there is something to note about forward Mage walls, with frosty fire beams.

I feel like for what they do, sure they wall off, (abit unreliably), they have 'meh' damage.  They are decent, but if you want a sturdy wall, i'd pick the mystic or the blockade. If you want a cheap wall, training dummy beats mage wall in 90% of cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[[93260,users]] As someone who still uses them on maps they didn't butcher DU costs, I can say the Drake Wall is INCREDIBLE if you do wall focused builds.


Just like most towers though, yeah, its value goes up or down depending on what your pair it with, but it can completely lock down bosses, takes forever to die (especially if you slap a Boost Aura over it), and turning enemies on each other can, and will, have excellent DPS spikes. Build around them instead of just including them and you can tell how potent they are.


They're a total waste if you run most of the meta towers though, but so are other walls really. The Dummies win in this scenario by default if you just need that insurance policy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, there have been a lot of back and forth on advantages, but most everything is people discussing advantages theoretically and why one is better than the other. So I wanted to try and make a repeatable test case and see how an unassisted wall can handle a mob by itself.

I chose the Bling King Incursion since it supplies a timer, and specifically used the Deck Path route. They release nice little mobs that are similar (besides monster bonuses), and this lane is far enough away that I can make sure no damage from other lanes comes in or out. All the other lanes were spawn kills with PBs, with PDTs to take out air far away from the test lane. I only counted runs where the Deck Path was green as the other colors mean a much meaner mob. I started the count the first second the wall was hit, and ended the count when it died. I put the towers in the same spot by the rock before the turn to the secondary objective.

I did 2 runs of each, and this is how long they lasted:

445k Blockade = 35 seconds, 43 seconds

474k Fang = 47 seconds, 55 seconds

745k Maw = 62 seconds, 49 seconds

318k Dummy = 75 seconds, 60 seconds


That is an awesome dummy! I ran it again, and watched what was going on. This time Dummy got lucky, and lasted 103 seconds. The Shielding Guard seemed to activate a good amount, but the big thing was the teleport and the damage per hit. It seems like only a couple of monsters would get close enough to attack, and then the others would wait. But when one teleported or died, the others wouldn't move in right away and the dummy got a break. It also looked like the range guys were getting hit? The little void effect graphic would flash on them, and even though that was just a couple of k that was enough to kill them in a couple of hits.

Anyhow - I guess in cases of lots of little annoying goblins, the Dummy seems like the easy winner flat out, not even considering the DU cost. I imagine against Ogres the weird effects won't do much (they don't teleport anymore, they don't bubble, damages too fast for automation to do too much), so in that case I'd guess the most HP would win.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@geo981010 quote:

I did 2 runs of each, and this is how long they lasted:

445k Blockade = 35 seconds, 43 seconds

474k Fang = 47 seconds, 55 seconds

745k Maw = 62 seconds, 49 seconds

318k Dummy = 75 seconds, 60 seconds

Good stuff mate,

I think Dummy is the Tier 1 overall, nothing really beats it. If you are going for some form of Onslaught run, then it really is a toss up between Squire wall and Fang. Fang requires more maintainance over longer runs, but in short terms appears to work better.
During longer runs, automotive passive seems to kick in to repair the 'chip damage' and that would class the Barricade higher.

Needless to say, The training dummy is rediculous in comparison to its counterparts

And like i thought, the MAW is quite negligable and has very limited use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[[93260,users]] like many and i said maw is really strong, you forget some important aspect of what an wall shall do, it should stop the enemy advancing and is the last point of defense kinda. So it needs to hold out as long as you can. With that barricades are awesome for sure, but for maws, they not only have a really high health, they even stop enemys completly and block even their path. They even stop bosses and so they don't reach the maws at all, they even increase the damage the bosses take, letting other defenses do more damage to them, and also other monsters. With that they hold out really long.

Before mystic i used them alot on all maps as walls and on maps with right chokepoints they shine incredible well. Like demons Lair incursion. Witherbeasts are often the first one arriving to them. These witherbeasts are tanky as hell and the maw turning these on the stairs into stone. Meaning no monster can even pass it and reach the maw and they need to kill it before advancing to the maw, making the whole witherbeast useless vs maws.

Now witherbeasts are the enemy to all walls for they debuff them so they receive more damage, but for maws they are the perfect second wall and you can include them into the maw HP wall if you like :D. Maws don't fear them, they use them.


I do used all walls alot over time too and have nearly a maxed waller for every type of wall, but still i do consider Maw's the best. And it seems i am not the only one this time at last which is refreshing for once, gobu gobu gobu.

Well in a game world when walls are needed, not like you need them now :d.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[[94093,users]]

The Arguement isn't weather they are situationally viable. As most things in this game are, Ie. Flamethrower towers can be placed in X position on X map and work well. However, in general Flamethrowers suck in comparison to other towers.
The argument is Comparing a 'wall' and its positives and negatives in regards to its cost in DU.

I can see the positives and negatives of a MAW and i can understand the different elements and fundamentals of the tower, however it is quite evident that a Wall should be 'The last line' and as a mechanical standpoint, usually you place your defences to kill Mobs before they get to your wall.  
While yes, you can reason that a MAW will halt a witherbeast in its tracks and stop the next line of mobs from progressing, however You could also place 3 Mines, which will also kill that witherbeast with the excess DU you would have 'Saved' if you chose to opt for a cheaper wall.

IF the argument is about an Ogre, you could place a frost tower which has the ability to halt an Ogre, and you also have DU to spare. You could even place a Ballista to help kill the ogres or a buff beam on your Damaging towers and you would be in a considerably better position, than if you just used a MAW.

Situationally, sure its got some perks to it, it has alot of hitpoints.
Efficiency, It really isn't very efficient for what it costs/effectiveness
I personally can't see reason to place it any higher on a Tier list, due to its extreme DU cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That entire post basically explained why there really isn't a point to a tier list lol.


The obvious answer is just whichever fits into the meta, and since current meta doesn't even need walls, the cheapest wins.


As someone who enjoys wall style setups, Maws are always my preferred choice.  First hand experience with all of them has shown me Maws are hands down the most reliable no matter what enemies spawn where with what modifiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Vagnar quote:

The obvious answer is just whichever fits into the meta, and since current meta doesn't even need walls, the cheapest wins.

The most cost effective will always win, which was what i was trying to decipher.

If we are Asuming that walls are needed in a meta, the training dummy would become less viable and more situational because for 10 DU more you can get a sturdier wall, however 60DU more for the 'sturdiest' wall is bonkers.

I just have yet to see a compelling statement, that can justify Using a maw. Over using a cheaper wall and placing mines, or placing Lightning auras, or placing frosty towers, or placing legitamately anything with the saved DU that would make the MAW more effective.

But if you're talking Cost per HP/damage/utility.   
Maw VS  Dummy + ballista (balistas arent in the meta) (60du tower)
I'm sure you'll get signifciantly more value out of the dummy + ballista

This can be said about a significant amount of variations, even something like Squire wall + Frosty tower + mine.

@Vagnar quote:

As someone who enjoys wall style setups, Maws are always my preferred choice.  First hand experience with all of them has shown me Maws are hands down the most reliable no matter what enemies spawn where with what modifiers.

Maw might be the most reliable to you, because the meta doesn't revolve around Walls, We build maps with around 1/2 the DU cost, and fill the rest of the map with whatever else we would like.
If you were in a situation where a wall would be nessasary, things would be vastly different. 
If you were to sacrifice some of the HP on your wall, and run a 30 du wall and place mines/auras around the place (wall style setups) There would be less things hitting your walls

@dreamanime quote:

it should stop the enemy advancing and is the last point of defense kinda. 

Then wouldn't idealy you want to shut down the enemy before they get to your wall, For this. you would be building more damage infront of it.
'A good offence is the best defence'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maw DU cost should be reduced to 60 I think, Why spend 80DU for 1 700k wall when you can just spend 60du for 2x mystic walls = 900k,  Or build 1 Arcane or Dummy with 2x frosty towers for 80du and or so much other combinations.  just too much of a wast of DU for 1 wall I think.

Also update the wall list to 700k maw and 450k Vipers Fangs, apprentice walls to 300k, and skeleton orc to 600k(fortitude sphere), and for pdt is 250k+ assuming u using totem with wep hp stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@xArcAngel quote:

Apprentive walls will always be the most useles things imo just because of the downtime on them... If mobs didn't run past them after they explode, I'd love them as damaging walls, but I've never found a situation where I'd prefer them to just a training dummy for cheap walls, or Orc's for damaging walls.

Barriers have hardly any down time. They explode and less than a second later its already back up, I've used a single Arcane Barrier to cover the short sub path in Dragonfall Bazaar (due to the builder insisting to use all the DU defending middle lane and leaving it completely unguarded after the subcore wiped first wave), only had 1 orc manage to get past the wall but he immediately turned and started hitting the backside of the wall due to the agro mechanics Barrier seems to have.


[[93260,users]] 

Its not that I rely on the wall dps to kill for me, but if I'm up top on a large map like Buried Bastile clearing out an ogre its nice knowing that my walls can handle themselves against the other bosses before I can get to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@geo981010 quote:

Ok, there have been a lot of back and forth on advantages, but most everything is people discussing advantages theoretically and why one is better than the other. So I wanted to try and make a repeatable test case and see how an unassisted wall can handle a mob by itself.

I chose the Bling King Incursion since it supplies a timer, and specifically used the Deck Path route. They release nice little mobs that are similar (besides monster bonuses), and this lane is far enough away that I can make sure no damage from other lanes comes in or out. All the other lanes were spawn kills with PBs, with PDTs to take out air far away from the test lane. I only counted runs where the Deck Path was green as the other colors mean a much meaner mob. I started the count the first second the wall was hit, and ended the count when it died. I put the towers in the same spot by the rock before the turn to the secondary objective.

I did 2 runs of each, and this is how long they lasted:

445k Blockade = 35 seconds, 43 seconds

474k Fang = 47 seconds, 55 seconds

745k Maw = 62 seconds, 49 seconds

318k Dummy = 75 seconds, 60 seconds


That is an awesome dummy! I ran it again, and watched what was going on. This time Dummy got lucky, and lasted 103 seconds. The Shielding Guard seemed to activate a good amount, but the big thing was the teleport and the damage per hit. It seems like only a couple of monsters would get close enough to attack, and then the others would wait. But when one teleported or died, the others wouldn't move in right away and the dummy got a break. It also looked like the range guys were getting hit? The little void effect graphic would flash on them, and even though that was just a couple of k that was enough to kill them in a couple of hits.

Anyhow - I guess in cases of lots of little annoying goblins, the Dummy seems like the easy winner flat out, not even considering the DU cost. I imagine against Ogres the weird effects won't do much (they don't teleport anymore, they don't bubble, damages too fast for automation to do too much), so in that case I'd guess the most HP would win.


Yep I would expect the dummy to be the best against goblins unless I had a wall that could kill them as fast also, so for me it doesn't really say much at this point. Dummies would get demolished against more aggressive harder hitting slower attacking monsters in comparison despite the the teleport. (in my opinion, though not tested)


Really you need to test against a variety of monsters, one option would be to test in onslaught round one, and just restart the map for different mob types. Being extremely mindful of the passive empowerment each lane has. I would not like to test this lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Zimmermann quote:

I am pretty sure its not about taking more damage but rather Automation. This has been one of those things people often spoke about re Orc walls vs Squire walls. 

Try building squire walls without automation and see if they start to appear to take "more damage", that should prove the point. Unfortunately I do not have a Mystic to test this myself.

I also rate Squire walls, as the reflect damage larger sphere is phenomenal, I have under rated that sphere for a long long time and only recently started using it again.

How can you be pretty sure about the Mystic's walls when you don't have a Mystic? Well, that's not it. I don't even have Automation on my Squire. I never found it useful at all so I don't look for gear that has it. What is it... 25% chance to restore 15% of its damage when it attacks? My blockade does 2215 damage, so on average it restores 83 health per hit, and it attacks once every 1.41s so thats 58 health per second, but only while there is something up in its face, which there usually isn't. So automation = 0 health for the majority of the time, and about 0.01% of its health per second for a short time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like there's a type of damage resistance each wall has too. I really do. Mystic walls really don't take a beating well at all.

In the same setup even with dropping another tower and using Drakes, the amount of damage they took during waves is significantly lower almost always.


Dream made a good point earlier. High DU towers means less upgrading, so you'll have more points to spend actually upgrading the towers you have out. Sooner you hit top tier, sooner you wreck everything. There's a reason Volcanos and Obelisks get used so much despite their 100 DU price. They're worth it. 

I get there are multiple ways to tier something, but I have to point out that when you make topics like this, less informed/new players are more likely to take the info as gospel, when it isn't necessarily an accurate reflection of in game usage.


I don't wanna prattle on forever though so I'll cut my ramble here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

I am pretty sure its not about taking more damage but rather Automation. This has been one of those things people often spoke about re Orc walls vs Squire walls. 

Try building squire walls without automation and see if they start to appear to take "more damage", that should prove the point. Unfortunately I do not have a Mystic to test this myself.

I also rate Squire walls, as the reflect damage larger sphere is phenomenal, I have under rated that sphere for a long long time and only recently started using it again.

How can you be pretty sure about the Mystic's walls when you don't have a Mystic? Well, that's not it. I don't even have Automation on my Squire. I never found it useful at all so I don't look for gear that has it. What is it... 25% chance to restore 15% of its damage when it attacks? My blockade does 2215 damage, so on average it restores 83 health per hit, and it attacks once every 1.41s so thats 58 health per second, but only while there is something up in its face, which there usually isn't. So automation = 0 health for the majority of the time, and about 0.01% of its health per second for a short time.

I am/was pretty sure that the reason Squire blockades take damage better then other walls was due to Automation. It seems very awkward, clunky and not something you would design for to make each wall take a different amount of damage. However, I could, and based on what people have been saying, am wrong.

Regarding Automation, don't forget you can get 3 items with it, and based on how much I see my walls repair it possibly also scales with damage it returns via one of its spheres.  But yes rank 1 walls dont do any healing.
I usually play with frosties, walls that are upgraded due to not using meta/OP towers and Boost auras. I see a lot of healing in comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

Aren't Frostbites still broken? I haven't even attempted to build one in weeks.

yep they are still broken, but when they do work they increase blockade damage, along with other effects. I am getting some pretty large amounts of damage dealt by my blockades which is resulting in noticeable healing.  But until they nerf the *** out of the META and other OP towers walls will never see any real gains due to them staying at rank 1 never getting hit, and then every now and a gain getting demolished due to them being ignored or a poor build.

one of my fully buffed Rank 5 blockades with 1 frosty, BA + BB has 37k DPS, and that shoots past 40k as soon as you start upgrading the BA/BB. a single hit can be over 40k too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Peekaboss quote:

-snip-

Applaud the in depth rebuttle... and you are correct. For 60 DU, you get a lot more out of adding a PDT instead of a maw... Of course... If you already have a PDT out (cause adding a 2nd won't increase your damage), and add a buff beam to that one, you get about a 20% DPS increase if I remember? (Speed buff, the biggest thing ur paying for with buff beam, doesn't do really anything for PDT). Thats nice.

But that means, if the maw buys 20% more time for that PDT to DPS than without a maw, you've effectively created the same DPS increase. At T5 (again, they are drastically more useful at higher tiers), Maws easily buy more than 2-3 times the amount of time for PDTs and other towers to DPS.

Compined with consolidating a lot of DU into one tower, it makes it easier to get the spare mana to upgrade them to reach those points. PDT's are also amazing AOE, but because of their inability to stack, they are no longer the worlds greatest against bosses anymore. Between the damage increase from petrification itself (which btw, alone puts it on par with something like a buff beam), and the damage of the other monsters attacking the boss now, I find them to have pretty beautiful synergy with specifically PDT's and other high cost towers.

But of course, I am biased... because I consider a build a failure if my walls get touched, so I always prefer walls that can actually do more than just soak damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[[146531,users]] That's honestly part of the debate for me. Those of us who lurvs their wall builds build around them, so we likely already have said towers out and accounted for. 


In the Drake builds I run, dropping Drake for Viper's Fang/Squire Wall and using that free 50 DU changes... Very very little. Most enemies don't get to the wall anyway. The Drake though will absolutely hold the line no matter what is thrown at it, which is the fun of a wall build.


Cheap towers win end of discussion when talking about efficiency/meta as the meta doesn't even use them. If you want to discuss them further, the actual builds and intent on how to use them factor into the equation too much imho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...