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MushroomCake28

Things I suggest reworking before the official release

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Now, as we all know, DD2 is moving forward and we all hope it will get out of alpha without too many problems. However, until we get there, some mechanics are going to change, be updated, or either removed. That's why many players, including myself, aren't ready to invest too much time right now on the game (I still play a bit to complete missions) because some gears/pets we farm might become obsolete. For example, I haven't been investing much on pets for the last 3-4 months at least because they might be redone and the current effort would go to waste. Now, here are things I highly recommend reworking before the official release:

1. Gear System

This one is pretty obvious. Not that I hate the current gear system, but DD1's gear system is highly superior than our current one because of the diversity. In DD1 you could roll all stats and depending on builders/dps you could try to find more of a certain stats while trying to balance others. There were also sets, meaning that you also wanted to find similar gear type on top of the stats. Of course, the best thing was the gear rarity. Omg it felt good to get an Ultimate++.

Compared to that in DD2, the system is pretty simple: you simply gotta check if you got the right primary/secondary stats and if you got the right passives. On top of that, Legendaries are really common, especially if you compare them to supreme/ultimate in DD1. However, I have to say that I pretty like the passives, the problem about them is just how they are implemented. 

So here are the 2 main problems: the fact that you only need to look for the right primary/secondary combination compare to all stats in DD1, and the fact that legendaries aren't rare (you don't get the omg feeling when you get one). TE, if you could at least fix the second one, it would be amazing.


2. Pets

Ok so this one is a big one since it hasn't been touched for a very long time. They just need an overall rework, because now, they are like an additional piece of equipment that we use for stats. There are a lot of things to do:

- Redo the DPS: Not very complicated, they are trash atm, doing max like 4k dps. Make it actually usable.  

- Diversity in attacks: Right now they just all shoot projectiles toward a single enemy. In DD1 there were close range dmg pets, long range single target, multiple projectiles, etc. This needs to be implemented. 

- Abilities: Although I like the idea in DD2, it needs a lot of reword. First of all, their current impact in the game in minimal. Bring all the abilities at a level that level that at least can compare to a hero ability. Make them at least useful like the current dragolich. Also, I suggest adding a passive ability, one that is always present without a need for it to be activated, like in DD1: constant healing aura around the hero, mana recovery when attacks enemy, different element projectiles (like djinns), stuns enemies on attack, etc. This will add diversity.

- Make some farmable: In DD1 if you wanted a specific pet, like for example the djinn, you knew you had to do a certain map. Make it so that some pets are unique to a map and always roll specific abilities that would make them desirable. 


3. Difficulty

Now, this one has been brought out a lot of times so I'm going to sum it up. The current NM, which is stupidly divided into layers, just takes enemies and boost their stats, making the NM gameplay feel the same as hard and insane when you have the gear. There is a need for some additional features, additional enemies and modifiers. The toughest map shouldn't be accessible to the casual players. No need to say more as many players keep reminding TE what a true endgame is (there is even a thread about it lol).


4. Survival

I like the current idea of having a reward in onslaught, so you can farm a specific thing. Survival was always a farming mode anyways. The only things I don't like are: 

- The wave/rounds system: It feels really stupid to have 2 useless waves before getting a third one because loot can only be dropped by bosses in the third wave. My suggestion is to completely remove this and have only waves, like in DD1. You can give the reward at each 5 waves. 

- The poor enemy progression: Currently, after setting the map and upgraded everything, you can just afk until wave over 9000. Make enemy difficulties increase a lot faster. Increase the number of bosses/ogres as the survival goes on. I want like one ogres + 1 boss in each lane at the same time. If wave 10 felt easy, wave 15 should be ok, and wave 20 should be super hard.

- Loot: I suggest making loot drop from all enemies like the regular mode, but if you really want to make it drop only from bosses, have bosses on every wave. Also, as we get deeper into survival, make rare loot drop more often.   


5. Loot rarity

This one is different than the general gear system I was talking about. Many of us are complaining because legendaries are dropping too often, making them not really rare. The current problem is that having a higher rarity would cause 2 issues: increasing the passives' max values (which would cause making a properly geared hero with all passives' max value near impossible) and making that little upgrade meaningless. Let me explain the second issue. 

Except for passives, the only difference between mythical and legendary is the little difference in stats. For a 700 ipw DP/DH gear, the legendary would have 314/314 and a mythical 300/300 (not sure about 300, but should be near it). Like seriously, who cares about "14" points difference? The difference is too little to make a legendary so much better than a mythical. Considering the fact that if TE adds a new tier which is actually rare (like Ultimate) and that they won't be adding a fourth passive sloth, will the mere 15 points difference make it actually an upgrade? I have no idea how TE will address this, but let's see how they will do things. 


Sorry for the brick of wall, but I felt that 2 sentences couldn't express everything I had to say. 

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On the topics of gear and passives, the idea I like best is to move passives to spheres (except, perhaps, some weapon-specific passives), increase the number of sphere slots, and change gear, essentially, back to how it was in DD1 (many stats; (about) half give negative values).

They can then easily lower the drop rate and boost the stat bonuses of legendaries since their advantages will be limited to higher and/or more stats on a single piece of gear.

This also removes the frustration of having to toss otherwise good gear due to the lack of a passive you really want because those will be on spheres that you can swap out whenever you want.

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@CollectorOfBolts quote:

On the topics of gear and passives, the idea I like best is to move passives to spheres (except, perhaps, some weapon-specific passives), increase the number of sphere slots, and change gear, essentially, back to how it was in DD1 (many stats; (about) half give negative values).

They can then easily lower the drop rate and boost the stat bonuses of legendaries since their advantages will be limited to higher and/or more stats on a single piece of gear.

This also removes the frustration of having to toss otherwise good gear due to the lack of a passive you really want because those will be on spheres that you can swap out whenever you want.

Alot of us want it this way, the Uuber sphere should determine the build and Armor should be universal. Otherwise I expect fixed max rolls on all passives if they are still to be random, because the sheer quantity of them for one character is just ridiculous. The passives in this game are just overkill and killing the game for alot of people. 

Trendy have said they won't do it this way. They have told people they are looking into a passive re-roll instead.

That's not going to save loot. As you are going to have to align the right piece, with the right stats, the main passive, with the minor passives and with the right ipwr for it to be viable.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Alot of us want it this way, the Uuber sphere should determine the build and Armor should be universal. Otherwise I expect fixed max rolls on all passives if they are still to be random, because the sheer quantity of them for one character is just ridiculous. The passives in this game are just overkill and killing the game for alot of people. 

I would also prefer universal gears with multiple stats without passives (moving them to another system like spheres) like in DD1, but I assume TE will keep the passive system since they worked so much on it. Another thing that's going to be a problem is the stats on the gears. The current system seems to limit it at 2 and I don't believe TE would want to raise it. If they actually do put all stats on gears and have a negative point system like in DD1, they would have to remove the passive system cause the rng would be too overwhelming. So it's like they have to do 2 things which they don't want: add more stats on gears, remove the passive system.

That's why I believe we can do something in between via a crafting system (something that showed up in the influence week a long time ago and was never heard again). First thing would be to bring back stats on gears like in DD1, meaning all possible stats (including Defense Speed and Defense Range). They could keep passives on gears, but make it so that passives are movable through crafting from one gear to another. Of course there would be some conditions and such to just not take the greatest legendary for stats and throw in some weak gear with good passives, but yeah, that's kinda an idea. 

Anyways, one thing sure is that it can't stay like this. 

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Looking back, the passives system is one of the main reasons me and my friends have not played since last December.*

It just got to a point where what would have otherwise been an upgrade was garbage due to the passives either being entirely wrong or having numbers drastically lower than our current gear that was commonly of a drastically lower item power.

Progress slowed to a crawl and the joy-to-disappointment ratio on drops was just too heavily weighted towards disappointment with an punch to the stomach in the form of gear that was off just enough to not be useful.


* The only reason more significant was the lack of an interesting challenge involving more than just dumb enemies waltzing down each lane.

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@CollectorOfBolts quote:

Looking back, the passives system is one of the main reasons me and my friends have not played since last December.*

It just got to a point where what would have otherwise been an upgrade was garbage due to the passives either being entirely wrong or having numbers drastically lower than our current gear that was commonly of a drastically lower item power.

Progress slowed to a crawl and the joy-to-disappointment ratio on drops was just too heavily weighted towards disappointment with an punch to the stomach in the form of gear that was off just enough to not be useful.

The fault isn't on the passives (btw the values got a lot better than before). They are adding a nice additional mechanics. The problem is how it is implemented on loot: since you are only looking for legendaries with the correct stats, stats on gear aren't really relevant because loosing 2-3 DP doesn't change much, so the result is that you are only farming for the 1% additional passive, which is a very terrible farm. That's what annoying about the current system. 690 ipw with 5% of a passive > 700 ipw with 4% of that same passive. 

That's why many of us want that old DD1 loot (even though I don't believe it will happen). 

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@CollectorOfBolts quote:

Looking back, the passives system is one of the main reasons me and my friends have not played since last December.*

It just got to a point where what would have otherwise been an upgrade was garbage due to the passives either being entirely wrong or having numbers drastically lower than our current gear that was commonly of a drastically lower item power.

Progress slowed to a crawl and the joy-to-disappointment ratio on drops was just too heavily weighted towards disappointment with an punch to the stomach in the form of gear that was off just enough to not be useful.

The fault isn't on the passives (btw the values got a lot better than before). They are adding a nice additional mechanics. The problem is how it is implemented on loot: since you are only looking for legendaries with the correct stats, stats on gear aren't really relevant because loosing 2-3 DP doesn't change much, so the result is that you are only farming for the 1% additional passive, which is a very terrible farm. That's what annoying about the current system. 690 ipw with 5% of a passive > 700 ipw with 4% of that same passive. 

That's why many of us want that old DD1 loot (even though I don't believe it will happen). 

I probably could have been clearer as I actually agree with (most of) what you've said.

I'm fine with the mechanics introduced by passives. What I don't like is them being on gear. Giving them set values (or at least tightening the rangers they can have) would certainly help, but ultimately I do not want anything that changes (tower) mechanics on gear.

I want to be able to choose how I play without having to rely on RNG at all. Any system that does not allow that is, IMO, flawed and not worth investing great amounts of time in.

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Personally, I'm okay with some of the passives on gear, the really generic ones like defense/hero crit chance, harden/nullify, and vector corrector (which should not be squire gear only as it currently is and should apply to aura/trap radius as well), but the class specific ones like Hearty Blockade, Empower, etc. should all be spheres.  Most importantly, the specific, farmable class legendary passives like the PDT Huntress Bow should be Uber spheres or removed/reworked.  Right now, at least a few of them impact the way you build your defenses and such so significantly that attempting to balance higher difficulty scaling without assuming that those abilities are in play is pointless.


In a similar vein to the OP, I think the Hero Deck mechanics need a rework.  Right now, there's entirely too much leeway in builds due to being able to switch heroes in and out of the deck during the build phase.  You should be able to fiddle with your hero deck until the end of the warm-up.  After that, you should be locked into the four heroes in your deck for the rest of the map.  This alone could solve at least some of the problem with multiple Colossi or multiple Volcanoes.  You could still have 4 of them, but you'd be limited to one class in your deck to do it.  Right now, what should be a serious strategic implication to which heroes are in your deck and how they're built and geared is reduced to irrelevancy.

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@MushroomCake28 quote:

Now, as we all know, DD2 is moving forward and we all hope it will get out of alpha without too many problems. However, until we get there, some mechanics are going to change, be updated, or either removed. That's why many players, including myself, aren't ready to invest too much time right now on the game (I still play a bit to complete missions) because some gears/pets we farm might become obsolete. For example, I haven't been investing much on pets for the last 3-4 months at least because they might be redone and the current effort would go to waste. Now, here are things I highly recommend reworking before the official release:

1. Gear System

This one is pretty obvious. Not that I hate the current gear system, but DD1's gear system is highly superior than our current one because of the diversity. In DD1 you could roll all stats and depending on builders/dps you could try to find more of a certain stats while trying to balance others. There were also sets, meaning that you also wanted to find similar gear type on top of the stats. Of course, the best thing was the gear rarity. Omg it felt good to get an Ultimate++.

Compared to that in DD2, the system is pretty simple: you simply gotta check if you got the right primary/secondary stats and if you got the right passives. On top of that, Legendaries are really common, especially if you compare them to supreme/ultimate in DD1. However, I have to say that I pretty like the passives, the problem about them is just how they are implemented. 

So here are the 2 main problems: the fact that you only need to look for the right primary/secondary combination compare to all stats in DD1, and the fact that legendaries aren't rare (you don't get the omg feeling when you get one). TE, if you could at least fix the second one, it would be amazing.

The only thing i disagree with is the legendary drop rate, it's fine how it is cause frankly you need a lot of legendaries and mythics to be able to upgrade your gear, if the upgrade system was simply designed with gold in mind (AKA if your gear piece was level 30/46 and you wanted to invest 1/5, 2/5. 3/5. 4/5. 5/5, obviously out of the current implementation, instead of investing gear and gold though you could just invest gold and it would upgrade based on the current legendary feed power.) The idea would be to then fix the drop rate by giving them no reason to give such a high drop rate and would make legendaries more special. But at the same time still making upgrades possible. People give me some FEEDBACK, it is appreciated and I would like to see how everyone would feel with that type of implementation. Or something close. 

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@TMyth quote:

The only thing i disagree with is the legendary drop rate, it's fine how it is cause frankly you need a lot of legendaries and mythics to be able to upgrade your gear, if the upgrade system was simply designed with gold in mind (AKA if your gear piece was level 30/46 and you wanted to invest 1/5, 2/5. 3/5. 4/5. 5/5, obviously out of the current implementation, instead of investing gear and gold though you could just invest gold and it would upgrade based on the current legendary feed power.) The idea would be to then fix the drop rate by giving them no reason to give such a high drop rate and would make legendaries more special. But at the same time still making upgrades possible. People give me some FEEDBACK, it is appreciated and I would like to see how everyone would feel with that type of implementation. Or something close. 

Legendaries should be something rare, or TE should make a higher rarity (like supreme/ultimate). That actually would add to the reason to play, make a new reason to farm. The game would feel more rewarding (of course, if the new rarity really adds something new). 

Now, I believe the current gear upgrade system needs to be rework. We've voted for a crafting system. So at the very least, they'll remake this. It would be indeed completely logical that something of higher value offers more when crafting. So logically, mythical of same ipw and level 1 < legendary of same ipw and level 1. As you upgrade a gear, it should increase its value. I'm not sure it currently does (or if the scaling is very bad), but it should. 

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@SuitUp quote:

Personally, I'm okay with some of the passives on gear, the really generic ones like defense/hero crit chance, harden/nullify, and vector corrector (which should not be squire gear only as it currently is and should apply to aura/trap radius as well),

Those really genetic passives need to simply be removed. They're just stats disguised as passives.

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@CollectorOfBolts quote:


@SuitUp quote:

Personally, I'm okay with some of the passives on gear, the really generic ones like defense/hero crit chance, harden/nullify, and vector corrector (which should not be squire gear only as it currently is and should apply to aura/trap radius as well),

Those really genetic passives need to simply be removed. They're just stats disguised as passives.

That was sort of my point.  I don't care if they call them passives or stats, but they're currently the only way to increase defense/hero crit chance, increase defense range beyond the base 50 points, etc.  I doesn't matter to me how they're displayed on the item, but anything that's not effectively a stat should be a sphere.

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Totally Agree! i also would like to add Bring Back Defense Speed back. Like in DD1 its so funny to make towers attack faster.

The Defenses atm are so slowly! Look at the Flameburst Atk Spd is so slowly that makes me feel asleep.

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@Chronos ~ quote:

Totally Agree! i also would like to add Bring Back Defense Speed back. Like in DD1 its so funny to make towers attack faster.

The Defenses atm are so slowly! Look at the Flameburst Atk Spd is so slowly that makes me feel asleep.

There was a Defense Speed stat in DD2 before. They removed it and they're not going to re-implement it. It was game-breaking and very hard to balance. TE said this themselves.

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@Seph quote:

There was a Defense Speed stat in DD2 before. They removed it and they're not going to re-implement it. It was game-breaking and very hard to balance. TE said this themselves.

Agree and disagree.

I also highly believe that defense speed will never again be reintroduced into the game as a stat on gears (sad). Anyways if they really reintroduce it, they'll have to redo the loot system (cause we can only get 2 stats and we will get too many defense stats). 

Although it was gamebreaking, it doesn't mean that a defense speed stat will always break the game. It is possible to still balance with that in mind (example: tower starts off at 2.0 rate and the max value is 0.5, no matter how high your defense speed is.) 

All that said, it is a fact that the current way the game handle speed and range is highly flawed because everyone will always put max speed and max range in the SAS for a builder. 

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TLDR every post. But, in response to the pets, I pretty much agree. I will say this however, I have the robo kitty pet on my HD/AP Monk. The Pet ability does as much as 330K dmg (not DPS) every 10s. Well...sometimes anyway, and ONLY when I use heroic wave. Sometimes it does 88K dmg (not DPS). Other times 220K dmg. The other day it was hitting 880K dmg level 45 pwr & 26 pet affection. now that it is fully level  60/60 and 60/60, the highest I am getting is 330K dmg.

I am currently trying to figure out of it does more dmg with AP or more dmg with hero crit. Maybe it's a bug? But,I think this really just helps your point that pets need to be re-worked.

The good news? The devs said that pets are on their list of things to rework. So is bag/inventory things.


I see people often say things like "put XYZ in DD2, just like it was in DD1." To that I ask, "Why not just go play DD1? DD2 is a different game. Yes, it's the sequel to DD1, but it doe snot have to be carbon copy with the #2 on it. Sure, put a few things from DD1 into DD2, but if we ask for more things from DD1 to be put into DD2 and the devs do it, then we just have DD1 rehash with a #2 and a furthering story. In which case, we might as well go play DD1 again.

A famous person once said "Be careful what you ask for, because you might just get it."

Just a thought. Otheriwse, a good post MushroomCake28. :-)

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