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KnowsNoLimits

I'm skeptical Trendy knows what real End game is all about

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@mindlessdefender quote:

I think 2 most important things in the game would be, Are most/all defenses viable/useful in hardest difficulty, and is hardest difficulty actually challenging.
In a game like this it is not bad to have a super hard difficulty because all content and items can be unlocked in lower difficulties, going higher is a matter of a player wanting to be challenged.

100% agree, all defenses are not meaningful, shall I take a picture of the Uber Sphere towers that are meant to you know, be UBER? Monk's lightning auras are pitifully small and the damage output is to laughed at. Squire turrets are slow as hell and the damage is so underwhelming a goblin in an 70% slow aura could take it down, and MAY I EVEN ADD THE BALLISTAS, which frankly have the worst targeting system and have ABSOLUTELY no use since you know they require lines of enemies.. BUT, low and behold the enemies stay spread out like butter on bread, nice and random across the giant paths leaves the ballistas useless as all HELL. I wont even get into the other towers. You get my drift. I just want balance and to give each tower a use. Not a ONE TOWER FULL BUFF WINS.

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@MaJean quote:


@Dani quote: 

"The biggest issue I seen, wasn't that Nightmare was too difficult, it was the entry into Nightmare wasn't logical or progressive. I remember farming Endless Spires and doing the first two waves over and over hoping to get some loot, that would eventually let me get further."

Actually, it made logical sense that you had to "claw your way" into Nightmare. Nightmare mode was a different beast altogether or - a league of it´s own,  and the feeling when you finally made the transition was totally worth the while. I too did Endless Spires over and over, gradually clearing more waves and every Mythical piece of loot I aquired in those runs are still to this day, the best feeling of well earned loot I ever had in a game.

Frankly I've seen mobile tower defense games with harder gameplay to get into the end modes.. Like literally so hard it required an exact build with exact upgrade patterns to win... This game makes end game look like a joke and it shouldn't be. I had great hopes of good end game but the only hard mode to break into was the NM4. I solo'd my way from NM1 - NM3 in one day.. LIKE SERIOUSLY? That makes end game look like a joke and I was done before I even had mentally started..

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@dimitrimartin quote:

End game content is the same problem for every game , and you'll always find people against the way dev deal with it.

Basically, either you implement scaling difficulty, either its fixed challenge. In both systems, end game player will hit a wall.

In the first one, it's impossible challenge with max given stuff, after repetitive attempts to push your stuff and skill to limit. Diablo 3 is a good exemple.

In the second, it's nothing new to do once you clear/get last patch new content. Fixed difficulty lead you to easily clear every challenge once you get proper stuff. DD2 here.

A compromise could be scaling difficulty + scaling stuff? But even here, you create endless farming for +1 stat stuff, which is kind of boring as hell.

And to nail the coffin, even when you add new, original, challenging content, end game players clear it way too quickly compared to time needed to create it

No solution here, and it's not TE problem.

Needs more variety. Hard to have any variety when you have like 3 tower stats to go for. Plus you don't control tower atk speed. This is my main problem. They have such a low attack speed cap. You cant get any faster than a rate they set and it needs more variety. The tower speed stat was something that was good and when they removed it for crit I literally stopped playing like altogether.. It needs fun tower stats again. Not crit. Crit isn't fun. Tower speed is fun, watching your towers shoot a million times a minute is entertaining to watch and gives more variety.. Instead of having 100 Attack speed maxed on every hero unless it's a waller or serenity aura builder..

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@TMyth quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Dani quote: 

"The biggest issue I seen, wasn't that Nightmare was too difficult, it was the entry into Nightmare wasn't logical or progressive. I remember farming Endless Spires and doing the first two waves over and over hoping to get some loot, that would eventually let me get further."

Actually, it made logical sense that you had to "claw your way" into Nightmare. Nightmare mode was a different beast altogether or - a league of it´s own,  and the feeling when you finally made the transition was totally worth the while. I too did Endless Spires over and over, gradually clearing more waves and every Mythical piece of loot I aquired in those runs are still to this day, the best feeling of well earned loot I ever had in a game.

Frankly I've seen mobile tower defense games with harder gameplay to get into the end modes.. Like literally so hard it required an exact build with exact upgrade patterns to win... This game makes end game look like a joke and it shouldn't be. I had great hopes of good end game but the only hard mode to break into was the NM4. I solo'd my way from NM1 - NM3 in one day.. LIKE SERIOUSLY? That makes end game look like a joke and I was done before I even had mentally started..

Did you start playing after they removed lane resistances and added the Hero Deck? We're in a transitional period right now where they took out what made the game hard initially as step 1 of a rework. Right now everything is a joke until the revamp completion hopefully fixes that.

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@LukeAsh22016 quote:


enemies could surprise attack players in build phase.  Something just crazy and challenging.

Ya know, Kupo, there was this time, in the not too distant past, when a friend & I were playing with 2 other people in a public match on one of the town maps (the burning one). When all other enemies were killed, there were still 5 enemies left that we could not find anywhere. Next thing we know, our core (gate lock with chains) was being attacked... There was nothing to be seen, but sure enough, the core was slowly, but surely, losing HP. 

Kupo decide to take action!! I use my melee hero with Keyblade in hand (Oh wait...that's another game) and attack the core, not know whether it would work! 

WHACK

SCHWING

CLANK

SMACK

KINK

WAVE ENDS....

YAY Kupo! I did it!! I beat the invisible baddies!

This happened again 2 waves later. I knew what needed to be done! For some reason, range attacks did nothing. Only Melee, Kupo!

SMACK

Ka-CHINK

CLANK

BASH

BONK

Wave Ends...VICTORY AGAIN against these stealth baddies!!


What if....

what if, Kupo,

This tale is a glimpse of things to come? Invisible enemies that can find your core & defeat it from the inside out? Evil technicians that burrow unground! You won't know they are there until your core is being attacked? and only certain hero types can stop them. Or maybe only ranged in some maps & in other maps only melee heroes can stop them. I think, Kupo, this would be a pretty cool mechanic that would change the way I look at the game. 


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@TMyth quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Dani quote: 

"The biggest issue I seen, wasn't that Nightmare was too difficult, it was the entry into Nightmare wasn't logical or progressive. I remember farming Endless Spires and doing the first two waves over and over hoping to get some loot, that would eventually let me get further."

Actually, it made logical sense that you had to "claw your way" into Nightmare. Nightmare mode was a different beast altogether or - a league of it´s own,  and the feeling when you finally made the transition was totally worth the while. I too did Endless Spires over and over, gradually clearing more waves and every Mythical piece of loot I aquired in those runs are still to this day, the best feeling of well earned loot I ever had in a game.

Frankly I've seen mobile tower defense games with harder gameplay to get into the end modes.. Like literally so hard it required an exact build with exact upgrade patterns to win... This game makes end game look like a joke and it shouldn't be. I had great hopes of good end game but the only hard mode to break into was the NM4. I solo'd my way from NM1 - NM3 in one day.. LIKE SERIOUSLY? That makes end game look like a joke and I was done before I even had mentally started..

You do get that this was NM in DD1 I was referring to...? Yes NM in DD2 is super easy.....

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...I can't believe how many people still rave over Nightmare entry in DD1. No matter how you dress up a donkey it's still a donkey. Grinding the same few waves on the same map over and over again to get the gear you needed was nothing more than broken game design.

Making loot the sole guiding star of this game, or even the deciding factor, is always going to result in a broken game design. The difficulty in a tower defense game should be based on two things: towers and monsters. "Normal" difficulty should have rather straight forward monsters that only require basic strategy and tower composition in order to win. Each difficulty above normal should add monsters with unique abilities or modifiers to increase the amount of strategy required(modifiers are in the game but... yea they're pretty pathetic). I realize that DD1 had some of these things but they were locked behind a ridiculous grind for gear that added nothing but a requirement to play for x amount of time(based on rng). There was no skill involved. Beating Nightmare required skill. Gearing for Nightmare? It just required an annoying grindfest that only tested your patience or the amount of free time you had.

I can't believe there's even a debate regarding DD1's abysmal approach to entry into Nightmare. What's needed in DD2 isn't a difficulty level that's locked because you don't have the gear. It's a difficulty that's locked because you can't handle the strategy required. The only way that's going to happen is with a large increase in monsters with varying abilities designed to wreck all the cookie cutter builds. Gear should only be a way to give you some padding to work with.

Along with more enemy types they should add a randomizing factor. Each time you play a map should feel like a different experience. Unfortunately, the only way I see this happening is with a very large array of monsters with varying abilities to choose from, larger than DD1. After that they can randomize which enemies appear so that one strategy will never always work on a particular map. Although, I feel the random factor should only apply to Nightmare, not other difficulties(it's what should make it Nightmare).

TLDR; DD1's Nightmare gearing was god awful even if the strategy layer itself was solid. DD2 needs more enemy types to encourage more strategy. Loot needs less emphasis than strategy.

P.S. Yes, I'm aware of the strategic revamp. We'll see how much it actually adds before I get excited.

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@Zinec quote:

Grinding the same few waves on the same map over and over again to get the gear you needed was nothing more than broken game design.

You pretty much just described the whole Dungeon Defenders franchise as broken.

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@MaJean quote:


@Zinec quote:

Grinding the same few waves on the same map over and over again to get the gear you needed was nothing more than broken game design.

You pretty much just described the whole Dungeon Defenders franchise as broken.

Ain't that the truth. I remember glitterhelm quite well ahahaha.

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@Vagnar quote:


@TMyth quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Dani quote: 

"The biggest issue I seen, wasn't that Nightmare was too difficult, it was the entry into Nightmare wasn't logical or progressive. I remember farming Endless Spires and doing the first two waves over and over hoping to get some loot, that would eventually let me get further."

Actually, it made logical sense that you had to "claw your way" into Nightmare. Nightmare mode was a different beast altogether or - a league of it´s own,  and the feeling when you finally made the transition was totally worth the while. I too did Endless Spires over and over, gradually clearing more waves and every Mythical piece of loot I aquired in those runs are still to this day, the best feeling of well earned loot I ever had in a game.

Frankly I've seen mobile tower defense games with harder gameplay to get into the end modes.. Like literally so hard it required an exact build with exact upgrade patterns to win... This game makes end game look like a joke and it shouldn't be. I had great hopes of good end game but the only hard mode to break into was the NM4. I solo'd my way from NM1 - NM3 in one day.. LIKE SERIOUSLY? That makes end game look like a joke and I was done before I even had mentally started..

Did you start playing after they removed lane resistances and added the Hero Deck? We're in a transitional period right now where they took out what made the game hard initially as step 1 of a rework. Right now everything is a joke until the revamp completion hopefully fixes that.

I've been playing since day 1 Pre-alpha. And the lane resistances weren't hard. They were easily fixed by laying 20 traps and 15 frost towers. Again that wasn't hard. It was boring..

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

Lol that didn't work for D3. They got a sledge hammer instead of a newspaper and still stuck with it haha.

D3 is a complete turd compared to D2 but blizzard stuck with it and its an ok game now i guess. DD2 is in a quite similar spot. I think both blizzard and trendy wanted to make something different at all costs and they will stick with it no matter what.

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@Pegazul quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

Lol that didn't work for D3. They got a sledge hammer instead of a newspaper and still stuck with it haha.

D3 is a complete turd compared to D2 but blizzard stuck with it and its an ok game now i guess. DD2 is in a quite similar spot. I think both blizzard and trendy wanted to make something different at all costs and they will stick with it no matter what.

Yup, not going to disagree with you on that one.

With bright ideas of a never ending boring Torment system to ideas like the auction house, it's clear to see why it didn't surpass it's predecessor.

Thing is Blizzard's fanbase is huge, alot bigger than this game. So they can afford to have stupid mistakes. Trendy on the other hand? not so much.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

No, it's not valid. Trendy has told us they are working on end game and this thread is nothing but whining and complaining about end game. You're complaining about stuff before you even know what it is. How is that a valid complaint?

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

No, it's not valid. Trendy has told us they are working on end game and this thread is nothing but whining and complaining about end game. You're complaining about stuff before you even know what it is. How is that a valid complaint?

I already know that we are in for a world of hurt in NM thanks to meaningless incremental upgrades to ipwr once again, no matter what gimmick they end up showing NMV it's just going to be stupid. It's going to be never ending. We will get NMX eventually. Which god knows what dumb gimmick will come with that and the sad thing is it will be a sub par upgrade to NMIX.

The Torment sys...er NM system doesn't work in D3/DD2 either.

End game needs a real hook. Not transitional NM modes. A once mighty mode is diluted to be obsolete and boring. You may as well call NM1-4 Insane ++++ when NMV hits.

No one asked for more NM modes, because in the 2 years it failed to impress. I get it's embedded in the code, so my hope is that NMX leads into Hell mode. 

A mode that is a substantial upgrade in ipwr which is actually needed to clear it. Enemies need to be unforgiving and rely on actual strategy to beat the map, ya know something which doesn't rely on gimmicks to sell itself. It needs to be the be all end all difficulty mode.

Also ty for keeping this thread alive. :P

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

No, it's not valid. Trendy has told us they are working on end game and this thread is nothing but whining and complaining about end game. You're complaining about stuff before you even know what it is. How is that a valid complaint?

I already know that we are in for a world of hurt in NM thanks to meaningless incremental upgrades to ipwr once again, no matter what gimmick they end up showing NMV it's just going to be stupid. It's going to be never ending. We will get NMX eventually. Which god knows what dumb gimmick will come with that and the sad thing is it will be a sub par upgrade to NMIX.

The Torment sys...er NM system doesn't work in D3/DD2 either.

End game needs a real hook. Not transitional NM modes. A once mighty mode is diluted to be obsolete and boring. You may as well call NM1-4 Insane ++++ when NMV hits.

No one asked for more NM modes, because in the 2 years it failed to impress. I get it's embedded in the code, so my hope is that NMX leads into Hell mode. 

A mode that is a substantial upgrade in ipwr which is actually needed to clear it. Enemies need to be unforgiving and rely on actual strategy to beat the map, ya know something which doesn't rely on gimmicks to sell itself. It needs to be the be all end all difficulty mode.

Also ty for keeping this thread alive. :P

You go tell him knows lol


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KnowsNoLimits 

Anyway I had this idea about loot. what if you were to do a special quest to obtain these very rare items. Once finish the quest you gain a rank plate and a title. It should give more meaning to loot. I will create a thread about later or tomorrow. oh not all items will have this just these ultra rare items.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

A mode that is a substantial upgrade in ipwr which is actually needed to clear it. Enemies need to be unforgiving and rely on actual strategy to beat the map, ya know something which doesn't rely on gimmicks to sell itself. It needs to be the be all end all difficulty mode.

You are hilarious. Why?

Because after you gear up in the so much wanted "HELL MODE" you would come back here to complain about how unimportant and meaningless the previous difficulty is.

Just like you're doing right now.

Edit: the ONLY thing they need to do is add that so much wanted "HELL MODE" and make it drop the usual NM4 stuff. At least then you'll get your so much wanted challenge so you could come here cry about how "unrewarding it is" and proceed to contradict your current complains.

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You have to simply accept that you grew bored of the franchise (yes, not just DD2. You're not playing DD1 either. Why? Cause you're bored and tired of the same game itself. Gotta know when it's time to move on.)

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@Seph quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

A mode that is a substantial upgrade in ipwr which is actually needed to clear it. Enemies need to be unforgiving and rely on actual strategy to beat the map, ya know something which doesn't rely on gimmicks to sell itself. It needs to be the be all end all difficulty mode.

You are hilarious. Why?

Because after you gear up in the so much wanted "HELL MODE" you would come back here to complain about how unimportant and meaningless the previous difficulty is.

Just like you're doing right now.

In NM in DD1 I never complained once. I was doing NMHCMM survival and loving it. Why? because unlike the horrible Onslaught you had objectives to go for. You had a unique pet and a weapon at the end.

Monkey farming in Karathiki/Akatiti, hell yeah!

Lets talk about NM mode in DD1, it was fun challenging and I actually had to think up a build to beat it. Also lets talk about NM mode maps which no matter your gear you would get annihilated if you didn't build right. The map that comes to my mind the best for that was Talay Mines.

People would commit suicide if they faced enemies that tough and unforgivable, but in time you learned a strategy which helped, but didn't assure you of victory. It's the same with that raising lava level on NM an Incursion like that would make people quit

Another map was Palantir survival, holy hell when you have multiple 250 million hp Ogres which pound on your defenses you will feel it and that was just one threat.

Not one time did I feel completely OP even with my 7.2k Summoner and built up characters. It had such addictive gameplay and polish. It may of been hard to break through to NM initially, but when you did it was so rewarding.

NM wasn't just NM, each map had different scaling to enemies to the map and when you enter Hardcore mode to the mix, well you are going to be in for a fun time. Ya know when death is actually fairly penalized.

Enemies were there to *** you up, unlike this game. They are here to come and shake your hand. We had dangerous enemies such as Spiders, Sharken, Djinn and Goblin Copters. Even to this day Sharken are feared after how many years?

What enemy is memorable in DD2?

The enemies themselves look so cool, they are just so disappointing in tactics in DD2.

God the potential is there. Trendy just need to unleash it and not rely on gimmicks.

@LukeAsh22016 quote:

KnowsNoLimits 

Anyway I had this idea about loot. what if you were to do a special quest to obtain these very rare items. Once finish the quest you gain a rank plate and a title. It should give more meaning to loot. I will create a thread about later or tomorrow. oh not all items will have this just these ultra rare items.

Sounds good, I will be sure to look out for your thread.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Pegazul quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

Lol that didn't work for D3. They got a sledge hammer instead of a newspaper and still stuck with it haha.

D3 is a complete turd compared to D2 but blizzard stuck with it and its an ok game now i guess. DD2 is in a quite similar spot. I think both blizzard and trendy wanted to make something different at all costs and they will stick with it no matter what.

Yup, not going to disagree with you on that one.

With bright ideas of a never ending boring Torment system to ideas like the auction house, it's clear to see why it didn't surpass it's predecessor.

Thing is Blizzard's fanbase is huge, alot bigger than this game. So they can afford to have stupid mistakes. Trendy on the other hand? not so much.

Diablo 3 obliterated Diablo 2 in all time sales btw. It way surpassed it despite the opinions of a vocal minority. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves it. Only the D2 sympathizers complain incessantly acting like they know what's best for the game, forgetting D2 is still a game they can go play.


No real point being made here. Just noticing a trend.

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@Vagnar quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Pegazul quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

Lol that didn't work for D3. They got a sledge hammer instead of a newspaper and still stuck with it haha.

D3 is a complete turd compared to D2 but blizzard stuck with it and its an ok game now i guess. DD2 is in a quite similar spot. I think both blizzard and trendy wanted to make something different at all costs and they will stick with it no matter what.

Yup, not going to disagree with you on that one.

With bright ideas of a never ending boring Torment system to ideas like the auction house, it's clear to see why it didn't surpass it's predecessor.

Thing is Blizzard's fanbase is huge, alot bigger than this game. So they can afford to have stupid mistakes. Trendy on the other hand? not so much.

Diablo 3 obliterated Diablo 2 in all time sales btw. It way surpassed it despite the opinions of a vocal minority. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves it. Only the D2 sympathizers complain incessantly acting like they know what's best for the game, forgetting D2 is still a game they can go play.


No real point being made here. Just noticing a trend.

D3 surpassed D2 before it even released on hype alone. I know... i was there. It was not the vocal minority lol. The player base dropped by millions in the first 3 weeks.( very similar to what happened after the DD2 f2p launch)

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@Vagnar quote:

Diablo 3 obliterated Diablo 2 in all time sales btw.

Britney Spear's "Baby One More Time" has outsold every Black Sabbath, Miles Davis, Radiohead, U2, (name the other 5 million bands that are better here) album, btw. :)

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@Pegazul quote:


@Vagnar quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Pegazul quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

This thread needs to just die. Nobody needs to be complaining about an update they haven't even seen yet.

Oh you wanted this thread to die?

Then I shall bump it just for you.

Complaints in this thread are a long time coming and quite valid. Thankfully most agree with me, which further strengthens my points. We already know they are heading in the wrong direction with more NM levels. So sometimes you just have to speak up and roll up a newspaper, whack them on the nose with it and say "No! bad Trendy, look at what you are doing".

Rinse and repeat until they learn.

Lol that didn't work for D3. They got a sledge hammer instead of a newspaper and still stuck with it haha.

D3 is a complete turd compared to D2 but blizzard stuck with it and its an ok game now i guess. DD2 is in a quite similar spot. I think both blizzard and trendy wanted to make something different at all costs and they will stick with it no matter what.

Yup, not going to disagree with you on that one.

With bright ideas of a never ending boring Torment system to ideas like the auction house, it's clear to see why it didn't surpass it's predecessor.

Thing is Blizzard's fanbase is huge, alot bigger than this game. So they can afford to have stupid mistakes. Trendy on the other hand? not so much.

Diablo 3 obliterated Diablo 2 in all time sales btw. It way surpassed it despite the opinions of a vocal minority. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves it. Only the D2 sympathizers complain incessantly acting like they know what's best for the game, forgetting D2 is still a game they can go play.


No real point being made here. Just noticing a trend.

D3 surpassed D2 before it even released on hype alone. I know... i was there. It was not the vocal minority lol. The player base dropped by millions in the first 3 weeks.( very similar to what happened after the DD2 f2p launch)

12 million sold year one. Over 30 million lifetime. The pre hype wasn't its only moment of glory.

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