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Black Mamba

[Dis~] How To Make TOL(& others) Great Again! (UPDATED for Halloween Spook 2)

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@Caimen0 quote:

Yeah ToL can go f**k itself. I know of like 3 people who actually like to run the map and I consider 2 of them to be nutcases. (Not in a bad way of course)

It is not fun to run, it is stressful since a single pair forming ends the map, the boss fight sucks and forces a one dimensional fight strategy, not to mention reliance on phys walls to make it.

I don't really care about what happens to it but for the love of god don't make it a map you have to farm for something.

Sounds like a case of "git gud" really.

Although jokes aside, your rant about ToL probably seems like you don't like playing any map? Coz whichever map you play there's only one strategy -- defend the crystals, up, rep, kill mobs, repeat. Hardly sounds any more fun than ToL. Although I've beat ToL with Barbs a bunch of time, dunno what you're talking about it being one-dimensional. The Old One is one-dimensional strategy, Embermount Phoenix is one dimensional, Akatiti boss is one dimensional, WW almost one-dimensional. Do tell which boss is not one-dimensional. Come to think of it, this does sound like a case of "git gud".

I hate couple of maps, and while I would like to farm them purely for the rewards, I'm quite okay with not farming them becasue I can't put up with these maps, and I'd rather just trade for the stuff from the said maps.

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It's not "git gud" because I can beat it just fine. It's a case of the map being fun only if you like self flagellation squire_small.png
"one dimensional" means there is a very narrow manner in which you can beat the boss. You use monk + ranger or for the most part you get an L and wasted 20 minutes getting there.

Old One can be beaten with any character and any playstyle. This goes for most maps, (except Embermount, and we all know how fun that map can be) although I'm not sure if one's defenses could hold up long enough for a dps summoner to beat akatiti. Or if the summoner would survive a missile barrage.

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I like the idea of making map specific accessories like ToL, Palantir etc. stop spawning on LA.

I do not like the idea of making accessories other than the bow and hat spawn on ToL and here is why: ToL should, in my opinion, reward its unique accessory, especially if that is the only place to get it, and replacing that with a different accessory, which you can get anywhere else including lab, is not something I will support. I play ToL for the hats/bows, not any others (although I do really love fancy masks <3)


@Caimen0 quote:

I'm not sure if one's defenses could hold up long enough for a dps summoner to beat akatiti. Or if the summoner would survive a missile barrage.

Challenge accepted

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@ThePoet424 quote:

 in my opinion, reward its unique accessory, especially if that is the only place to get it, and replacing that with a different accessory, which you can get anywhere else including lab, is not something I will support.

I think they were suggesting only adding an extra bow or hat as a reward or perhaps a new mask like Gigazelle showed off which would then be exclusive to ToL.   

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[[70358,users]] -- I've already said I've beaten ToL with Barbs a couple of times already, its not ideal of course given the nature of the Boss, but then so is the case with any other non-land based Boss in the game. While it can be done, it just requires quite lot of time, hence people just prefer ranged. There needs to be some bosses that aren't 1 HKO-able with melee chars with a cat under Monk boost, and the Cupids IMO fit that role quite well, so does the Ember Boss.
Now, as far as Old One is concerned, while it can be beaten with other chars, the point is -- its not quite as efficient to beat him using a Squire / EV / Mage / Summoner vs a Barb / Monk / Huntress / Jester. Granted he can be beaten with other chars, just not quickly. So its the same thing as ToL bosses, which aren't any different from SoL and TD boss. So I don't see what is the problem here if it is optimal to beat a certain Boss with ranged chars. Pointless thing to rant about. Either way, this is not the place for arguing about maps.

@ThePoet424 quote:

I like the idea of making map specific accessories like ToL, Palantir etc. stop spawning on LA.

I do not like the idea of making accessories other than the bow and hat spawn on ToL and here is why: ToL should, in my opinion, reward its unique accessory, especially if that is the only place to get it, and replacing that with a different accessory, which you can get anywhere else including lab, is not something I will support. I play ToL for the hats/bows, not any others (although I do really love fancy masks <3)

Like [[48136,users]] mentioned -- the suggestion is not for replacing the Top Hats and Bows, rather, just adding 2-3 additional face accessories(ones mentioned in the main post) which will be rewarded upon code completion. Without completing the come, you will still get the Top Hats or Bows. Also these additional accessories are already available on Lab Assault since they aren't new models.
Although if it is agreed upon -- then perhaps on ToL code completion, which currently drops an additional Top Hat or Bow, the suggested accessories can be added, rather than replacing the additional Top Hat or Bow. I don't mind having 2x TopHat/Bow + 1x random accessory reward from the 2-3 suggested(or the new one [[31834,users]] posted). As far as the one [[31834,users]] posted, that IMO should be ToL (and/or SoL) exclusive unless its decided otherwise by CDT or the community.

Goal is to have people move away from Lab Assault to other high-end maps and such for gear, and if making certain accessories as exclusive(ONCE AGAIN, which they were before Lab Assault) helps reach that goal, then why not! :D

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@ddace quote:


 

I think they were suggesting only adding an extra bow or hat as a reward or perhaps a new mask like Gigazelle showed off which would then be exclusive to ToL.   

I believe others have suggested the monocle and moustache as well but I could be wrong

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@mkjo quote:


@ddace quote:


 

I think they were suggesting only adding an extra bow or hat as a reward or perhaps a new mask like Gigazelle showed off which would then be exclusive to ToL.   

I believe others have suggested the monocle and moustache as well but I could be wrong

You are right .  Might could do a reskin of those to give them a different look and keep them exclusive too

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@ddace quote:

You are right .  Might could do a reskin of those to give them a different look and keep them exclusive too

That works totally fine. Although the current Mustache is pretty legit good-looking for Male chars.
But if something new & better looking AND EXCLUSIVE is being made, then I don't mind! :D

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@gigazelle quote:We already have a mustache in game! I'm actually hoping to move away from mustaches and beards because I know a lot of people don't like having so masculine-looking female characters.

Have no fear though, because the mask accs I have in store are much better :)

Yay!  Yes, I am really tired of beards on my girl characters :(

By the way, if fancy masks could drop with WW-quality stats, I would be super happy.  I wish accs were more of a cosmetic choice than they are right now. 

Terraria has a feature where you can equip one item for stats, and then pick another one for looks.  I miss that sort of thing when I come back to DD.

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It is kind of a combined thing in DD.  Some like the stats just to have more stats and some like the looks.  We are trying to keep stats on accessories around the same levels though so it should be just like the others on the same map.

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Accessory stats at their current Lab ranges are quite fine TBH. Of course, like vanilla weps and some pets, certain accs will be low-end(stat-wise). But even then most low end accs are still good stat-wise now. Should probably look at having a few Bracer Accs at the stat-range of WW / ToL / Pirate Invasion / Ember accs.

Although I'm always neutral on stats, becasue 3-4k stats is more than enough, but I can understand people wanting more and touching those 7-8k milestones! :D

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UPDATE for Halloween spook 2:

Okay guys, did some play-testing with Halloween Spook 2 at lower stats + lower DPS.
Roughly around 2k each. Was doing a duo run with 2 DPS Monks -- no chickens, just a 15k Seahorse & Trans Fire Dragon.
It is still a hectic challenge as it was earlier, especially the last wave. Not sure why I was under the impression that it was steamroll-able at low stats. Might be missing something.

But anyways, the weapons may not be top-end damage-wise, they still do tend to have decent stats for low-level players to serve as temporary equips until they can find better gear. Especially the Nosferatu, its still a great low-level monk weapon!


Although, the accessories are absolutely terrible stat-wise, comparable to Tavern Defense NMHC stat-range(or it could just be the RNG since I did 5-6 runs at most). So even for a 2k stat player they are worse than Lab Assault Hard/Insane HC accessories for the same map.

So, I'd suggest CDT to definitely to take a look at adding Halloween Spook 2 to the recent accessory buff map list in the next update.

Also I would not suggest making Halloween Accessories as exclusive
, becasue then that would leave Lab Assault accessory drop-pool completely dry. Plus HS2 map is verrrrrrrrry old, so it doesn't make much sense for it to be made forced upon everyone to be farmed for Halloween Themed Accessories. But if someone absolutely wants to farm these, then they shouldn't have to rely on Lab Assault RNG for them since that can  take a crazy amount of time.


TL;DR:

  1. HS2 is kinda still hard for low-end stats.
  2. Weps are somewhat decent.
  3. Accessories are terrible.
  4. include HS2 in the acc buff list.
  5. But don't make its accessories as exclusive.


Anyways lets see what others have to say about this.

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