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EagleOne

WTF... Tavern Expansion thread closed?

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Point of closing? Since the discusiion doesn't seem to be finished and still people may want to provide other suggestions/feedback. The tone was civil from Black and me.


However, I actively requested access to the latest DDDK and Nexus' tavern data in order to add the door we were discussing 36263 pages long and I'm still awaiting a reply a private message with actual data to download those...

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So Acen messaged me in Steam...


The CDT has taken Maggicus request word by word. Separating bottom-level and top-level of the new tavern does not keep the original size of the old tavern since new tavern is overall bigger. As I said before I don't mind in the most cases but I get upset if they are refusing to even try to do anything. If they are adding a door to separate bottom and top level of the new Tavern, they at least tried to keep the Tavern as small as possible to please also players who would like a smaller Tavern.

Needless to say this Tavern would be still bigger BUT the CDT has done their best to fulfill a request by an user. I don't know exact numbers but I'm sure anyone who likes a smaller tavern will be much happier to deal just with new bottom level than having to deal with both floors.

For the future; Go ahead and explain things a bit more detailed than just saying "No". Also think about alternatives, a lot of users are happy if you are at least trying to go a step in their direction... if you are open to that, you will also notice much less headwind.

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So... some users have reported my posts -.-


I have no clue if it was Nexus itself or other users from the CDT. I just can say... I never have insulted someone... I've even offered my help... yet I'm still awaiting a reply from the CDT to grant me access to the latest DDDK they are working with and Nexus' data.


I actually don't think there is a language barrier but anyways... don't forget that English isn't my native language... therefore if you think I'm too harsh, contact me in personal via private messaging or steam chat. I'm not here to blame anyone, I want to get people to think out of the box which is often a heavy task. If something is not clear from my side contact me or ask withing related topics. I'm at all time civil to my acknowledge even though I'm calling the things by its name.


I don't know if this post leads to a temporarily or permanent ban or not, I just wanted to let you guys know about current state of this situation. A ban would be extremely sad in any case.



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Now Im confused, are they planning on doing that or not?


If they are replacing the old tavern with a new tavern that is going to be bigger anyways because of all the new data, games and such, are you saying they are trying to keep Nexus' tavern the same size as the old tavern?  Is that even possible with all the new data that will be there?


If the new tavern has a carbon copy of the old tavern as the bottom floor, then adding a door between the two (a few mb of data at most) would effectively be the same thing. I can't speak for everyone but I don't see why we can't have the option without having to "switch maps" as people say. All we need to do is just add a button switch door. Put it where the access is from the "old tavern" bottom floor to the "new tavern" upper floor.


Having the ability to keep people out of the top isnt just a simple "But I like the old tavern"...

Using a door would be incredibly helpful in helping keep people from wanting to take your items or beg for items. You can keep all your cool items and event items up on the upper floor for when you are playing with your buddies. I constantly have to drop my items, to pick them back up again because I like showing off my collections to my friends, but when I play public I have to pick everything back up again to not worry about people trying to panhandle me or try to find some way to take my items under my nose. Its aggravating. The option to easily switch between the two by keeping my collections and most cared for items upstairs would be incredible.


Moonbase isn't two maps...you load the map once and you are done. When you open the door you are given access. Until then you are not allowed in. You dont open the door and then have to wait for that area to load up. You can see it from the main level.

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The bottom floor of Nexus' tavern is bigger than current Tavern. That's why the CDT says the original sized Tavern won't be possible (... why Nexus says no). This should have been mentioned by Nexus in first place to my believes then it wouldn't have been escalated like that.


Agreed to the other things you stated...

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I was under the impression that it is the same exact tavern as the original, just with the extra level built on top.


Either way I dont see why its such a big problem.

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@starfox64_0 quote:

I was under the impression that it is the same exact tavern as the original, just with the extra level built on top.


Either way I dont see why its such a big problem.

No it isnt the same.  This is from Nexus' original post.

"The lower floor got a few unit expansion outwards while the upper floor.. is brand new."

As for restricting access to the top floor, that is likely not a great route to go because it is a hangout area, not as much of a show off area, at least not the whole upstairs. However having restricted access to a room upstairs like Russman mentioned early on in the previous thread and what some have said they want in order to show off items, then that might be a better solution.

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Allrighty, I have been following this from afar, I love the idea about the new and bigger tavern a lot, I hope that the discussion can continue in the old thread once the emotions have calmed down.


To Mambo and Pew, the tone was a little hostile

to the CDT, maybe it is better to choose a spokesman to answer in threads on your behalf? A little like Josh his job?

Thx for the hard work anyways, looking forward to the next patch ;)

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@Veetoo quote:

Allrighty, I have been following this from afar, I love the idea about the new and bigger tavern a lot, I hope that the discussion can continue in the old thread once the emotions have calmed down.


To Mambo and Pew, the tone was a little hostile

to the CDT, maybe it is better to choose a spokesman to answer in threads on your behalf? A little like Josh his job?

Thx for the hard work anyways, looking forward to the next patch ;)

you are saying like a PR person or some one to handle the announcements. so that things don't get elavated since i know when some one insults your work it can be taken to heart. i was sorta thinking the same thing to be completely honest. 

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[[60173,users]]/atherial

Aight, thanks for clarification... you might be able to refer to certain sentences? That would help tremendously to avoid/prevent trouble in the future as in I really have no clue what exactly the issue is. Thank you very much, appreciated.

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@EagleOne quote:

veetoo/atherial

Aight, thanks for clarification... you might be able to refer to certain sentences? That would help tremendously to avoid/prevent trouble in the future as in I really have no clue what exactly the issue is. Thank you very much, appreciated.

Specifically, here and here. Granted, it was not your fault that that thread began escalating... although you certainly didn't help matters at all...

There is, unfortunately, a certain set of people on both sides of the issue who are seemingly incapable of calmly and rationally responding to others rejecting or even disagreeing with their opinion. I know I am often in that group.

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@Caimen0 quote:



@EagleOne quote:

veetoo/atherial

Aight, thanks for clarification... you might be able to refer to certain sentences? That would help tremendously to avoid/prevent trouble in the future as in I really have no clue what exactly the issue is. Thank you very much, appreciated.

Specifically, here and here. Granted, it was not your fault that that thread began escalating... although you certainly didn't help matters at all...

There is, unfortunately, a certain set of people on both sides of the issue who are seemingly incapable of calmly and rationally responding to others rejecting or even disagreeing with their opinion. I know I am often in that group.

First link... you mean the ***? That's so harmless compared to other people responses here at the forums for examples curtis... (link does not work correctly.... https://dungeondefenders.com/1/topic/130896/?scrollTo=1205570&page=6) I even did the work to censor MINE.


Second link; It is stated clearly in response of Nexus post.... I do have marked the specific sentences which fires an insult first... here Please do not try to quote things out of context! Thanks.


However, thanks for the advise to response more wisely. I will try to mark up further insults for investigation instead of responding to it. Appreciated!

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Tavern Expansion Notes: 
-Closing off the upper floor via a door is not optimal during beta testing / nor is it recommended until feedback has been sufficiently provided.

- Making the original tavern space available next to the new tavern - Mostly a technical issue that regards loading time and various other bugs that can/will cause lesser hardware to lag. The current default lobby level may be made available in the maps list however (pending approval)

- Regarding Item display: Providing another alternate space that is closed but for "Display purposes" is counter intuitive to currently available space.  There have been many points / discussions  regarding adding display cases however.  At a technical level, this is something that is still being looked into and may / or may not come with  a future update once all technical aspects of it have been worked out.  (keeping items locked to the host, for example is one of the technical issues) 

- Dropped item count will not be changed in regards to how some save data is managed and is out of the scope of CDT's abilities. *Note:  Display cases will potentially negatively affect the total dropped item counts.

-The music box has been updated to show current song name, each song on the list will be select-able off a list instead of having to cycle through every song

-A diamond forge : pending some technical and artistic finishes.

- The bottom tavern floor is expanded by a few units, a marginal floor space increase.

- The upper floor is brand new, and is intended to suit all future needs including the purpose of displaying items

- Tavern Themes : all of the old holiday themes are made available to the host to be changed when desired. *Note: Themes do not persist and must be changed back per any reload of the level. 

- Item-loss prevention is being introduced into the Default and Expanded taverns, to prevent items from being disolved by the void space around the tavern when dropping items to close to a wall or from switching tavern spaces.

-Mini-game ideas are still being considered and will come in a later update. The DDR mini-game will remain with Moonbase only.


If you have a request or an idea  regarding the Tavern Expansion previous to the beta please post it here in the format of :

- Your General Idea / Concept

- Why or how this can improve the tavern for everyone
 
And please remember to Consider Technical / Practical application, as there are some deeper technical aspects of the game the CDT does not have access to.  

 Other pending Tavern Expansion Ideas being considered:
-A "private" display room accessed from the upper floor

-An outside space

-Various mini-games

-Expanded basement floor in lieu of another private room

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@Black Mamba quote:

May I ask why the DDR machine isn't being added to the Tavern? What is the difficulty in that?

It's mostly because the DDR game is very complicated in how it is put together and a nightmare to move to another map because of  it's complicated nature/code.  It was briefly discussed around the CDT during a meeting when the Tavern expansion was being considered.. and it was inevitably put into a stand-by / last resort option, if no other less complex options are brought forth.  So far some other more optimal mini-games have been suggested, and production for them may or may not come to the tavern, something that a community poll will probably determine after the beta.

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Also one more thing, can it be done that in the basement room, any item that is dropped can't be hovered over by anyone else and can't be seen?
I'd like to make space from my inventory/shop and drop a few collectibles(mainly event items i don't use/equip) down on the floor, but don't want others hovering over it and possibly duping them.

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Strictly speaking no one but the host should be able to have access to that part of the level. As far as how the item pickup works when the cross-air is over it, I can't really say. In theory it should be blocked but it seems to often disregard the way collision works. That's a good technical bug to mention though. 

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hey guys im just saying that im super excited to have a out door area and that may be the thing im most looking forward to. nexus please make it happen some time and can we have a second eternian crystal out there so that i don't have to go inside.

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@Black Mamba quote:

Yea that's fine, but it is possible to block out basement items from being hovered over and viewed from outside?
Or is that a tough task?

I think crzy will be checking to see if it is possible.  Unclear if it is currently.

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