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ddace

CDT Update 3 - Ult++ Min Upgrades and Hero Healing Cost

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Here are a couple of smaller topics (I think) so I decided to combine them into one thread.  Please take a look at each and provide your feedback below on these ideas.

Topic 1:  Min Upgrades for Ult++

Many players desperately seek for those elusive ult++ pieces of armor and weapons.  How disappointing it can be though when the RNG finally smiles upon you and gives you a great looking item but trolls you on the ups.  Several have suggested before to adjust the minimum ups for ult++.  Currently ult++ upgrades can be quite a bit under 300 if rolled really bad.  So the question to you the community is, do you want to go ahead and see the minimum upgrades adjusted to something like 325 or 350?


Topic 2: Character Healing Cost

The cost to heal a character when you first start playing seems relatively balanced.  However as you start to progress in the game, it becomes more costly.  Eventually you noticed that even with full 2020 mana, you are not able to fully heal yourself and require far more.  So we are proposing a change where healing cost is also based on the max mana amount for your character.  So even if your char has crazy amounts of health, your max mana limit will be enough to heal you completely.  

Note:  This would be in addition to the original method and it would use the method costs less for your char.  Therefore low level characters, which dont require much mana, wouldnt use up all their mana for healing.

Thanks.


9/5 Update: Looks like there is a decent percentage of players who would like to keep Ult++ min ups as is. So we will drop this change for now.  

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I don't have any issue with the healing change.  The game shouldn't punish you for having more health.


As far as ups for Ult++ gear is concerned, I think it should be taken a step further.  Gear across the board should all be looked at and adjusted with mins and maximum ups to reflect their quality.  This will smooth out progression dramatically.  It isn't just Ult++ gear that can roll really absurdly crappy up rolls, and I think it would ultimately benefit the game more to look at every "tier" of gear.  

Personally, I kind of feel like ups (like basically all gear stats) have inflated to excessive levels.  I wouldn't mind seeing ups scaled back on all gear (though I recognize I'm probably in the minority here.)  But that's another topic in general, and I doubt it would make much headway.

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I like the healing idea very much (might help at Embermount)


As for the Ult++ I would prefer to remove the ridiculous negatives seen when one stat 'rolls over'. I am however, to give you some feedback, I guess positive on your proposal

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Making healing cheaper will make fairies mostly useless... Not necessarily a bad thing, I just happen to have a really good one :D I guess I don't really care about this change.


As for Ult++

Any tier can roll really badly, ults can get less than 200. It just sucks a lot more when it happens to an ult++. Although it would depend on how exactly you would implement it. It sounds like you would do a check or something before an ult++ drops, and then when it has less than 300 ups you don't allow it to spawn, or change it to ult or something? This would just lower the rate of ult++ items, but all of them are pretty good. I don't have a problem with that. I don't think the drop rate of 'good' ult++ should go up though.

Also I don't really get why you want this change. All it really does is change what it means to be ult++. As it is there has to be some minimum to the upgrades an ult++ can have already right? Why change that? One of the things I really like about DD is that a certain tier does not mean the item is automatically better than the previous tier.

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I actually like the mana cost for healing as it is. I don´t think you should be able to heal 1m hp with a bit more than 1k mana since you could heal almost infinitely then. Non the less I don´t heal that often so I don´t have the most accurate opinion on that.

And about Ult++ cahnges uhhhmmm, even tho it´s sad if you get ult++ with less than 300 ups that most of the time doesn´t happen. But I agree with Poet "I don't think the drop rate of 'good' ult++ should go up though.".

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I got screwed by a 298^ ++ pawn shot and a 302^ ++ quietus, so you can call me salty all you want but I am 100% for the ++ change.


I also like the healing changes. Now it wont take 3k mana to fully heal a barb :P

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+1 to the Healing idea as healing right now is more expensive than my item box.


I am Neutral on the Ult++ idea more leaning towards -1 as it adds an element of surprise and RNG to the game. if it was changed, I wonder how it would effect the market as everyone would have really nice Ult++ and the average/good ones now could become worthless. I, personally, have been blessed with RNG over the past few days so I am not salty but still, its fun and exhilarating.

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The healing change will make Old One significantly easier for people who haven't learned to dodge his attacks yet.

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I think as well that you should not change the Mana needed for Healing, since fairies are quiet nice for that one (and Cowboy Monkyes as well). Old one can be easily beaten with a fairy - they can be easily awarded from several maps and sometimes on the tavernkeepers shop as well.


About the Ult++ thing... i think it shouldnt be increased as well, since droprates for ult++ are already higher since last patch. People who really get that much bad luck to drop a Ult++ with that many upgrades, just have to keep farming- they can either play more Lab (wow, i personally started hating this map after a few thousand runs), or just AFK repping in a Survival.


So it should stay like it is.

-> Michili

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@[Ger] Michili quote:

About the Ult++ thing... i think it shouldnt be increased as well, since droprates for ult++ are already higher since last patch. 

I havent seen where ult++ drop rate was increased with this last patch.  If anything it may have dropped actually with fixing a bug that was previously causing higher gear to drop on 8.1.  However if you have seen it increased, then let us know where you have seen this so we can look at it.



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Hmm I'm neutral on the healing thing. Yes, the mana costs becomes silly and incredibly high at a certain point but I'm used too it and to me it is part of nightmare difficulty. "It is not about how hard you hit, it is about not getting hit", the healing change could take away this aspect, also getting hit to much and dying because of it still sounds fair to me. 


The elusive good ++ is not needed anyway, I'm not sure why it would be buffed. You get "trolled" so be it, you get "blessed" good for you, you get hero speed well get rekt. Personally I'm -1 on the ++ simply cause I don't see why it should be buffed, rng has always be part of the game.

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Im against both of the changes

The amount of time you actually have to heal a dps toon is very small already. The few times it is needed it would just make fairly easy challenges even simpler. The game needs some degree of difficulty to it. 

Rng has to be rng. We shouldn't be making stupid high stats even easier than it already is. If people just care about having stupid high stats then maybe they should check out that other game that is not to be named. 

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@harry4550 quote:

If people just care about having stupid high stats then maybe they should check out that other game that is not to be named. 

You mean like this? Note: If I remeber correct just 3 or 4 pieces are upgraded, didn't made sense yet to upgrade further :p

3BE839FF97044A14CA0721E08C847B528B55ECBA

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@EagleOne quote:


You mean like this? Note: If I remeber correct just 3 or 4 pieces are upgraded, didn't made sense yet to upgrade further :p

3BE839FF97044A14CA0721E08C847B528B55ECBA

aaaarrrrggghhh, stop it, it hurts my eyes even seeing it (even though I did enjoy afking Embermount overnight one time)

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@mkjo quote:


@EagleOne quote:


You mean like this? Note: If I remeber correct just 3 or 4 pieces are upgraded, didn't made sense yet to upgrade further :p


aaaarrrrggghhh, stop it, it hurts my eyes even seeing it (even though I did enjoy afking Embermount overnight one time)

so the part of that game that you enjoyed was sleeping at night? seems reasonable 

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@harry4550 quote:


@mkjo quote:


@EagleOne quote:


You mean like this? Note: If I remeber correct just 3 or 4 pieces are upgraded, didn't made sense yet to upgrade further :p


aaaarrrrggghhh, stop it, it hurts my eyes even seeing it (even though I did enjoy afking Embermount overnight one time)

so the part of that game that you enjoyed was sleeping at night? seems reasonable 

Well, for me, in the ezpz environment that was DDE, I enjoyed the challenge of building a defence that would last the night.  Although it only worked once for me, this was probably the only time in DDE that there was a challenge.


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@mkjo quote:

Well, for me, in the ezpz environment that was DDE, I enjoyed the challenge of building a defence that would last the night.  Although it only worked once for me, this was probably the only time in DDE that there was a challenge.


To be fair you can make the game always harder by dumping some stats :p By the way this works also on DD1. DD1 actually dont need any harder content for challening purpose. However, stat inflation is real for both games but DDE's progression is so much faster while being still the same game basically as DD1 :P

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On the topic of healing, I just realized -- if you make it so that it caps and fully heals you for whatever max mana limit is, it will make an ALREADY EASY LAB ASSAULT even easier. Right now whatever insignificant challenge people face is by getting randomly banged up by Ninjas or EVs on Lab Assault, given the lack of mana on that challenge it can be make or break really. So I don't think there should be any healing change becasue then you could heal a lot on Lab Assault too.

So yeah, come to think of it in the hindsight of my initial comment I will have say a no for the healing change.

As far as Ult++ goes, it should be noted that RNG is RNG regardless of what you get. I've had plenty of trolled Ults & higher weps and a few Ult/Sup armors that I wish were better rolled, but it is what it is... gotta live with it and move on. 

There shouldn't be any bias towards Ult++ be it armors, pets or weapons.
The core of the game's loot drop is RNG based it should stay that way.

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Looking at the comments on the healing there are those in favor and those against.  Would it work if it would just heal a percentage of  your health instead of full health? like maybe 50%

This keep the healing viable but also fairies should still be useful.

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@ddace quote:

Looking at the comments on the healing there are those in favor and those against.  Would it work if it would just heal a percentage of  your health instead of full health? like maybe 50%

This keep the healing viable but also fairies should still be useful.

I'm not sure I understand.  Would this be a flat 50% heal when you press the button on a cooldown, or would this be a channel like normal that only goes up to 50% (or only heals 50% of your health?)  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  It seems like it would be a pretty substantial nerf to healing for lower end players if not handled properly.

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It is not meant to change the current behavior for lower end players.  It would use the better of the two methods.

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