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Currently all I'm doing in DD2 is dailies and maybe farm Demon Lord for a few runs, because he rox my sox off.

Other days I don't even do that. I just let my dailies stack for a couple of days and then do them.

The challenge isn't there, so that doesn't hold me.

New maps hold me for a few days to a week. Then those grind blue's feelings sets in.

New characters are bothersome to level up. I have 5 characters yet to level up, but Harbinger spam is boring. So I just keep them in my deck and they progressively level up.

This new Campaign update isn't exactly going to make me put time into the game either.

I just wish their was something to hook you in. 

This game feels like it just has all these features, but has no heart to it. It just feels like an empty shell.

A hook doesn't neccesarily mean it has to be extremely challenging (although I would appreciate that), it just needs to be something addictive and extremely rewarding.

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This is a good post and I'm sure many people agree with what your saying but the thread itself doesn't leave much room for discussion besides we're all with you on your train of thought.

Just based on your council status/post count it's safe to assume you've put in far more hours then I have. Do you have any thoughts on what that hook what would it be?

My thoughts is this is a pve grind game at its core there's nothing to do but grind for better loot. The only other pure grind game I've put as many hours to is Diablo3 and I could see that model working here. Once the game releases you can now actually level in campaign and strategic revamp is released imagine a greater rifting system were like onslaught you have to beat three waves of mobs to advance to the next round in a certain amount of time so you couldn't turtle it. When you advance there's an npc in each hub that allows you to start at your highest completed round with leader boards for whose gotten the highest the fastest in solo, 2, 3, and 4 player.

They could even do a seasonal latter too with new items to farm like storm gloves so each season your able to get slightly further by hunting down new loot with better unique passives that alter your builds in various ways. And of course when you do complete higher rounds of this "greater onslaught" system like D3 your awarded with explosions of loot.

I know my idea wouldn't work because it's a straight rip off of another game but man I personally would love a tower defense game that played like that.

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I know ... how about if part of the game is wandering around outside (like actually outdoors) looking for virtual monsters and collecting them. I bet something like that might go over big.

On second thought ... Nah.

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I'm sure they have some ideas they plan to work on after this next big update. 

The reward system is always the best way to get people to continue playing, which is what they're doing with the new campaign giving an abundance of medals and gear. So that's a some huge love for new players.


A few ideas off the top of my head for late game players they could add are

1. My favorite thing in every game, events! Add more events! 3X medals event is what gets me playing on weekends. Easiest way to get people on. 

2. Add a small amount of gems with the weekly, lets say 40. That way if I play 4-5 months straight I get a low gem skin or a premium pet. 

3. Add back monthly pets in some cool way or for medals like betsy ( they said in the latest dev stream pets are getting love sometime after this next big update (insert patience here) )

4. Add onslaught rewards, if I get to wave 50 or 100 give me a chance of getting something worthwhile. 


Some basic ideas, that could be implemented fast and give people a handful more of hours to play for. 


 

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:I just wish their was something to hook you in.

I feel the same way. I always appreciated the game but this is in no way a counter for boredom.

Also a problem is that a lot of people start a thread about how boring the game gets lategame but there is no real conversation about it. So far iamisom just thanks the community for the feedback and even then most of the time the community statements are just ciritcs.

Feedback is an overview on e.g. what is bad and why! The start of discussing a solution is also part of a feedback. So far threads are like: Problem, people spamm ideas, iamisom thanks. Thread vanishes. (Edit: Not saying iamisom is wrong for doing it, just that people seem to just wait for the statement and then abandon the thread "because Dev was there")

I don' think you can ever work out anything from such a base.

It's also clear that TE doesn't want to bother with such things right now but rather wait and adress things in a later run for whatever reason we don't know. Maybe because the game does work pretty fine so far and before they want to adjust things, they want to throw out the content they have.

I just feel like they have multiple ideas which are all fine but with the amount of ideas getting bigger and bigger and more and more things are implemented it's super difficult to adjust things accordingly. It seems the lack of adjustements according to things getting implemented and things beeing affected by new and old content starts hurting the game bit by bit.


If I'd get the idea to change things I'd change the drop chances for items in general. Increase the drop chance for mythics and legendaries in NM4, speed up enemies in lanes and increase their amount per wave by a tremendous amount. Lower Ogre health a bit but make them non-special enemies to come out during the wave. Increase the destructive power of special enemies like Griblok by increasing health, damage and attack range add special attacks like a cleaver slash that hits towers from a disctance or stunns them or slows them, w/e. Make mages sumon the skeletal enemies faster and make them cast a spell that summons new skeletal enemies, too. Increase the amount of air-enemies in NM4 maps.

Rework the iPWR system. Grinding maps for max. iPWR gear with only a chance of it dropping int the end is incredibly dissatisfying, make it drop during the wave like in the DD1 mixed-hardcore mode and let chests drop the special weapons or armor sets only.

Adjust the effectivity of AOE towers like the Serenity and PDT combo beeing more effective then single target towers like the Cannonball Tower. You can't have an all destructive combo that melts through the standard units like a hot knive through butter. It supports beeing lazy and the only solution so far is done with the Incursion map Power Surge. Everywhere else you can pretty much ignore the enemies once the towers are built.

Those changes should make the game harder but more rewarding meanwhile players are forced to participate in the game.

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I completely agree. I think different item types, rare pets that are actually good, armor sets, more interesting item stats, and a skill tree would be a good star (skill tree that you could level past max level would be neat). We need more things to collect and do. Also we need really challenging content, Nightmare progression and difficulty needs a rework.

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Can't you make one whiny whiny post and gather all the whining in the same place ? It is always the same story "I have played the game hundreds of hours and I'm complaining despite the cheap price of it (now it's even free)".

First of all there's not so much game that kept you playing that long nowadays, secondly the devs are aware of the issues and are working on it and keep saying it every other week during devstream.

Lastly nobody ever said the game was perfect and finished, it's in developing currently, it is not the final product, flaws have to be expected. There is nothing constructive to flood the forum with 500 posts saying the very same thing with nothing constructive added to it.


And for the last time, the game is not easy, PDT, proton beams and dragolich are overpowered, HUGE difference. Remove those 3 elements from your build and you won't feel the game is quite as easy at all. And just as a reminder people whined for so long when the game used to be too hard and now it is the opposite, if I was the devs I would be quite pissed to see players constantly complaining because the grass is greener somewhere else. Can't you wait and see what they have in store? Constructive suggestions are a good thing, and even constructive complains, but saying over and over I have no challenge because I dried the game like hell despite it's only in alpha is just pointless.

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I'm not super sure what the game could offer without branching out of the niche it's trying to fill. I could spitball all kinds of things, but right now it does feel like a game you play some, then play something else, then come back later and play some more. That's what I do. I run a map or two, do errands out or around the house, etc until I'm ready to change games. If this was my only game, yeah, I'd burn out hard.


A few things it could use though for me specifically to become way more invested:


1) Post level cap progression system, as well as a quicker streamline for more characters to get to said cap quicker. I like the +35% boost, but it dies out due to the fact they have to be in deck. Why can't all your heros contribute to this bonus up to a certain cap? It's not the best setup system, because you have to level up one character at a barely tolerable pace, or level up multiple at snail's pace. Post game leveling could be anything from passives to something similar to Diablo's Paragon system, where you gain more points to distribute or unlock new perks.


2) Having more stuff to farm than just gear. Rare pet eggs would be a cool start, but the vanity chests feel like a borky idea that could have been done different, or contain unique accessories or color palette swaps and such. Maybe implement tavern decoration and decoration farming etc. Lots of side activities beyond just "ok I need this same weapon but with 2% better on the passive."


3) At least one mode that played differently than the others. Maybe a tower offense, or a survival mode where there's no core. Enemies are coming for YOU. As long as it's a completely optional/self contained mode, it could be anything.


4) Some sense of purpose that connects the community. Events that determine the outcome of future content, etc. This could even be used as the potential influence vote replacement if done right.


Plenty of other stuff I could say, but this was mostly me just slamming my phone kb while half awake, so take it for what you will lol.

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what keeps me playing at the moment is, how much gold will I make on Clicker heroes while I am doing dungeons, its the excitement of being able to upgrade my clicker hero helpers with all that gold!

What is turning me off the game is that I want to look forward to patches, but patches consistently break my deck, and its hard to motivate oneself to play when all I am farming is 750's and I keep getting handicapped with horrific bugs that are not hotfixed.

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I just find the game fun to play lol. It has all the right ingredients. It just needs more time to grow. I'm just glad I can currently play it evem though it hasn't "officially" been released. I can find other things to do if I start losing patience. I am totally guilty of uninstalling the game once back when PS4 version crashed every other map, but I came back after a few months to much better experience.


That said, I am glad to come share my positives and negatives on the current state of things. I want to see the game be great for everyone and succeed... and if not... push for at least an offline version so I can still play after the fact :P

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@Sombrero quote:

And for the last time, the game is not easy, PDT, proton beams and dragolich are overpowered, HUGE difference. Remove those 3 elements from your build and you won't feel the game is quite as easy at all.

I told you in another thread that I can build maps without using any of those 3 things and I'll even add Archers to the table. I'll make it feel as boring as it would be using these towers/pet. Nobody likes to see 50 threads about the same thing and even thought I usually agree with him, I don't like these threads either. But for the love of god, stop using this argument. I'm fine with you saying the game is not easy in some specific cases, but blaming the strongest towers/pet is bloody retarded and not true.

Thank you...

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Qstrike Hmm don't let my council title or post count intimidate you. It doesn't matter if you have 10 posts or 1000 posts I like to see different people's opinions.

As for a hook? 

Increasing the level cap/higher ipwr won't do it, that's a superficial solution. Increasing the enemies health/damage is a band aid at best right now, however increasing enemy variety and having a few core enemies which would make you uneasy at all times is a good start.

Forcing you to build more strategically than stupidly would also be a good start. Most builds you see wouldn't work if the enemies were scaled right and actually posed a threat. If you built close to spawns in DD1 you would get annihlated. In this game it's encouraged.

I personally find grinding enjoyable if done right. In this game it's done wrong. You have loot with so many passives to sync up it's not enjoyable to farm, then you have top end loot which drops from the skies as little orange rain drops which demeans it's name and value because it's so common. Not only that, but the fact that is common further taints you from using any lower tier quality in the game. You seriously may as well have only Legendaries dropping right now, it would make no difference.

Professor_Valconian Yeah...No, original idea though.

AVENUE I really like your gem idea, it will reward people who put the time in, a hook though? probably not, but a good star none the less.

As for Onslaught it needs a major rework. So just going to sum it up quickly.

  • No more infinite waves it's incredibly boring
  • Keep themed enemy waves, it was a nice touch
  • Have random events, say golden enemies for example which when killed drops a guaranteed high level piece of loot, make them rare enough for you to care
  • Have loot drop from every enemy, not just Bosses
  • Do away with rounds, because the first 2 rounds are meaningless
  • Bring back waves of 30 or so with mini reward mid way like a rare pet exclusive to the map and have a proper end game reward at wave 30
  • Let you have the option to start at anyway you previously cleared, just because you can start there doesn't neccesarily mean you will do well
  • Have enemies scale dramatically, wave 30 should be no picnic to clear even with fully leveled towers

Onslaught is now fixed.

Moving on.

Mybrainisanut I'm no stranger to having my ideas ignored or my voice ignored, but some rare events I do get through to them. But man oh man I sometimes feel I'm beating a dead horse to a bloody pulp with how much effort it does take to get the message through. In saying that I have tremdnous amount of respect for what iamisom puts up with and the crap he to sift through. Yes it's his job and the heat he recieves is unjust at times, but people need someone to lay out their frustrations on and unfortunately he's in the cross fire 9/10 times. However he still puts up with it like a champ.

Also nice ideas, keep them coming.

Mythos They were talking about maybe including a Paragon esque system in the near future, nothing concrete but something to look forward to. A nice mini hook as you will. But agreed man the lack of rare objects in this game to farm are a turn off. Nothing really is held at value.

Sombrero There's always one huh?

Ok lets go back into the past for abit. DD2's End game has always been easy, you were never challenged right. If you came from DD1's NM mode you would chuckle and say what in the hell is this crap?

This is not another whiny complaint, this is the major complaint for end game players and anyone that enjoy a challenge. Now if you want to gimp yourself by not using certain towers to make it harder for yourself than go right ahead. However that's just the easy way out and leaving Trendy give you a half assed NM mode. 

The fact of the matter is that no matter how strong your towers are certain enemies should counter them and other should fall to them and some enemies... well they should just be out to destroy you no matter what you build. It's the ying yang system I miss from DD1, it made you build more intelligent and you rewarded for your effort.

Vagnar I'm glad you brought up the exp boost. The Hero Deck was a nice niche idea, but now we have far more Hero's yo level up it really shouldn't matter how any chosen Hero's you have in your deck, it's going to be an incredibly boring process. What you could do now with 3 level 50's you could do with one exp boosting item popped for your whole Hero Deck and that means for more devoted players having every hero in your game level at an even pace.

Also it's becoming a pattern now in this thread that people are wanting something of value and rarity to farm. So you aren't alone.

[[150185,users]] Ah gold farming, it's a mini hook for some as yourself.mIt became quite tedious for me though, but I can see you are slowly but surely getting some reward out of it because you are seeing some noticable progress.

Ah yes your Monk. He got quite a few bugs given to him of as late, but dw a buff to his towers is coming soon. Lets see howmthat play outs shall we?


 

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The game is too easy, no challenge means no need to try and beat anything, so no need to find better gear.

Gear doesn't make much of a difference, even the extra 50 points you could get makes no tangible benefit.

Dragolich is far too powerful

Mobs are too slow have no real chance to damage the defences as they are slowed by many different mechanics.

Could go on and on but one simple improvement would be to double speed on NM1 and add an extra 10% speed per level thereafter.

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I'd also like to see the old Monthly system re-implemented, but without the time restriction. Give us a bunch of very lofty goals with various benchmarks, and meeting those nets us rewards. Unique costumes, pets, TOWER SKINS?! etc


I hated the old monthly system, but that was entirely due to the time limits imposed. I failed to complete them once or twice simply because I wasn't able to play much if at all. We get busy sometimes. I'll forever regret my Narwhagon (PS4 wanted 1000 kills from environment, and at that point in time, I knew of no fast way to pull it off in the time I did have to play) . It's the one mistake I'll tell my grandchildren not to repeat.


If they were permanent and we could tackle them at our own pace, it'd be like giving people a lot of side activities to work at off and on, and even encourage them to try different builds and heros.

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@Fozzie quote:

The game is too easy, no challenge means no need to try and beat anything, so no need to find better gear.

Gear doesn't make much of a difference, even the extra 50 points you could get makes no tangible benefit.

Dragolich is far too powerful

Mobs are too slow have no real chance to damage the defences as they are slowed by many different mechanics.

Could go on and on but one simple improvement would be to double speed on NM1 and add an extra 10% speed per level thereafter.

That's not really a hook though. Those are just things they need to do. The game right now is still lacking that extra oomph that motivates a pretty large group of gamers. Most of us on the forum are here because we're pretty committed to the game, but I'm sure a lot of people bail when they hit that point where it is just farming better gear, and will still do so if they fixed everything you listed.

It's fine for the moment, but hopefully they do broaden the scope of what the game offers as incentives to stick around in consideration of all player types and skill levels.

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@Fozzie quote:

[...] one simple improvement would be to double speed on NM1 and add an extra 10% speed per level thereafter.

This is by far the best freaking idea I've read in this forum so far.

I'd say not double the speed, but +50% and add like 16.6% by each NM difficulty you go through. NM4 would mean double speed, and with some lanes being buffed for +35% mov speed, you could be in for a surprise.

I like this a lot!

Just don't know how well this would work after the revamp with the new mechanics, but it would be a matter of tweaking the speed.

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For me the MP is the catch =). Playing with other is all i care about. Gobu.

The legion is always strong through its people. Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Huntress.pngEmoji_Goblin.png

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A few things that I feel would improve the replayability

1. Near Infinite scaling mode where enemies scale their Health, Speed and Attack each wave (allow users to select starting waves).

2. Leaderboards to add a competitive aspect (highest wave completed in Infinite mode, fastest map clears, most XP/Gold earned

3. Prestige mode for our heroes (Big difference in teaming up with veterans of the game compared to a fresh 50’s).

4. A custom mode that allows us to set our on parameters. (DU amounts allowed, heroes/pets allowed, type defenses allowed, enemies IPWR, amount of Ogres, kobolds, etc that spawn).


BTW this kind of ties in with  # 4.  I really enjoy playing the game so I often find new ways of challenging myself to keep the gameplay exciting.  I will limit my defenses, or not use the strongest defenses in the my builds. People know that PDT, beams, and archers will easily clear maps but they lay them down anyways every match. I don't understand that thought process?  Why do people refuse to get more creative? The mechanics allow us to be very creative yet nearly everyone in multiplayer use the same meta.  It is like a bunch of parrots in multiplayer. A custom parameters mode would allow us players to create some exciting challenges.

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Between DD1 and DD2 I have over 2k hours invested (I cried my heart out after checking, double and triple checking the math, lol). I can say this: Grinding is boring no matter what game mode you play. Choosing to grind for gear improvements is monotonous and seldom rewarding  until  you finally get that dream piece you've been busting your ass to get.  

If I focus on just trying to gear my guys, I still have a long long ways to go, so much that it feels overwhelming at times. I'm talking 750 ipwr with all the passives that I enjoy using, getting their crit level to 30% etc. 

While I do appreciate what Trendy has done by bringing us DD2, and being fairly involved with the community it seems they are currently focused on quantity over quality, and this is somewhat to be expected. I mean, they're getting beta testers/bug checkers for free, and by flooding the game with new characters, outfits, chests, etc, they're also making money... which in turn allows them to keep trying to find ways to flood the market with new new characters, outfits, chests, etc, which keeps the lights on and computers going, and the employees paid at the Trendy Office.


My 2 cents: 

Buff the enemy's, be it a static buff, or a progressive buff...soon the forums will be full of opposite complaints, wouldn't that make for a nice change? 

Maybe implement a new nightmare system, call it Hell on Etheria if you will, and have a progressive enemy buff in effect, have armor/rewards scale accordingly, in doing this maybe consider upping the hero level cap like in DD, I think it eventually went to lvl 100 if my old memory serves me correctly

Regarding pets... my only gripe about pets is Dragolich. You should make him available to everyone, either as a 1 time reward for completing something, or be purchased at the shop for x medals. He's that game breaking and unfair for new(er) players to not have access to him. 


Trendy, can't please everyone. Grab your tissues and keep grinding



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My favorite suggestions so far were:

1) To reintroduce Monthly challenges as unlimited-time quests.  Gives people reasons to try different builds and something to work towards.

2) The elimination of iPWR as a thing.  Ipwr serves exactly two purposes right now: to make leveling more time-wastey and to add another RNG layer to the game.  I think both of these substantially damage the game and below I'm proposing a system to both eliminate our iPWR system and provide a hook.


Don't get me wrong, challenge is important--challenge is a pretty big part of having fun while you play and helps provide you a long-term goal.  But challenge alone doesn't keep people coming back.  Now, as for my suggestions for an actual hook to keep playing:


1) Equipment acquisition is currently the only real hook in this game.  I propose we more explicitly make that a part of the game for players that they engage in, rather than just a lottery.  Completely remove the current iPWR system from all levels of gameplay, even the campaign.  Instead, make all items have the exact same maximum.  So end-game stuff might drop at 725/750.  Early campaign stuff drops at 15/750.  Players can boost gear up through a similar-but-better upgrade system (coming below).  This gives a grind-based means to boost one's stuff up without relying on pointless RNG that exists purely as a fun blocker.

2) Keep the current trait system but make all traits transferable--at least among gear of the same slot.  So if you pick up 2% Hearty boots during the campaign and later get boots without Hearty, you can just swap them over--for a currency cost, of course--overriding a trait of your choice if the gear is full.  Also, make traits upgradable all the way to max for another cost.  If we do this, I'd recommend making trait-drops on gear much rarer--especially on lower level maps.  

3) Unify the currency system, tokens aside.  Right now, we have gold and items as the two major currencies for upgrading gear.  Unfortunately, it's really, really clunky to use items as currency.  Our bags get full fast, you have to sort entire bags just to store your upgrade fodder, and the Alchemist is unwieldy and time-consuming.  No, I'd say just ditch gold and make it so you can scrap gear for Dust, which also drops in limited quantities from mission runs and end-of-mission chests.  When upgrading gear, just say you want to upgrade it...say 10x and the game will give you the dust cost and a confirmation prompt.  So much smoother.  If you want to buy an item in the shop--maybe you see a trait on a weapon that you didn't have--then you just pay dust to acquire, pay dust to swap it to your weapon, and pay dust to max it.  None of this juggling unwieldy currencies & half-useless currencies side-by-side.



I feel this system would give players a goal, something to work towards, thus providing a hook we've been desperately longing for.  And it would also assist a lot of the problems we see with progression.

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I wish people would stop complaining this game is too easy for them. Please try to remember new players join every day, I myself have only played 200hrs or so and have a great difficulty farming gear for my builders to be able to build nm4 and I am sure I am not alone. I do however miss the "hardcore" option from DD1 and that might solve issues for those already in end game gear.  add modes like assualt, bring back timers like in dd1/dde, bring back enemies like spiders, super wyverns and genies. maps like Kings game from DD1 where when you step on a square it could slow you buff mobs buff hero(random events) would be good too. Just spice things up in general so rounds are not so predictable. I miss allot of the challenges from dd1 especially the ones where you either could not build towers or could not use hero dps and had to rely soley on towers, these I feel would be good to give those with little to do at least a challenge and could perhaps offer only gear over 700 in nm4., Those who have played along time and reached perfect or near perfect end game gear have little to keep them occupied and those trying to get into better gear are severley limited to where they can actually farm without having to rely on hoping to find a group running somewhere. I think the reward system should be revamped some to offer a small amount of gems (50 or so) for a monthly task of some sort or maybe a lockbox key giving long term players a better incentive to keep playing. Even an addition like leaderboards for fastest completion of map/incursion most maps completed that month etc, competition amongst players can be a great hook to keep people playing. Progression between the modes seems to be a little unbalanced going nm3-nm4 compared to the rest I am hoping the upcoming campain changes will address this. perhaps on occasion have a sale on gem buying to encourage more sales of gems might be good too, other games do this and it seems to work for them. Finally onslaught should be reworked to offer better rewards as you progess, if your build can last 70 waves you sure as *** should get better gear than what drops on wave 3 atm it seems very little reward and it should be rolled out for all maps not just certain maps.

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I got a good hook idea: Skill spheres as drops with slightly better values than what you can buy. In addition to that, they could have other randomised passive  (different from current). Lastly, entirely new skill spheres only found in drops. These would be rare.

We need more skill sphere slots! 5 small, 3 medium, 2 large, 1 uber. Make small and medium more interesting. More customization options and build variety the better.

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Bring back the Ninja Dark Elf, it will give you nightmares when you get assassinated outta no where by a speedster.

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Does anyone remember that cancelled Vita game Ruin/Lair or whatever?


They had this cool side activity where people could build their own dungeon with things they earned in the normal game, then people could attempt to clear said dungeon, even if the owner wasn't online, amd could earn rewards that scaled with the quality/difficulty of their dungeon, and the game was going to keep track of how hard people's dungeons were and stuff.


Imagine if they could spin that idea somehow for this. 

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If you could find items to upgrade and unlock things for your tavern that could be a cool side objective too. Maybe even have to defend it occasionally. Unlocks could be things like: Add additional spheres, chance when upgrading to get additional free levels, increase the inventory of the stores, greater chance to get a rarer pet, get more tokens from your dailys, add traps for the defend missions, add a small chance to start with more mana at the start of a match, cosmetic unlocks to customize the look ect. Maybe even unlock additional rooms that have different functions.

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