Jump to content

Thoughts on the new update


Recommended Posts

Ok so next update we are getting campaign changes to the game and Mystic in late September. I can apppreciate the work going into this, but again you are in tunnel vision mode. You are so focused on one aspect of the game that you are ignoring core problems with your game.

Now this is fine for new players, but again you give nothing to the established players.

I honestly could care less about this new Campaign, been there done that and don't want to do it again.

Also it should be noted we aren't getting a mid-milestone patch either next week. Just some quality of life changes.

So realistically here we are looking at another 2 months, maybe more before you have a chance at anything substantial to keep established players interested.

I seriously think this is a big mistake.

You should be catering to both player bases and I seriously don't know why you keep neglecting your hardcore audience. Steps need to be made to make the game challenging before the revamp. 

The only thing I care about next update is the Mystic. Even then what is she going to do that I can't do now?

It seems she will be playing chess with the serpent god, because that's about all she will bring to the game since again nothing will challenge her and this go's for any other new character added.

You can tell people all you want that you consider your Hardcore audience and established players important and have plans for them, but actions speak louder than words.

Look I could do the same and tell you guys that this game is challenging and rewarding, but I too would be lying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm also in opinion that game is without challenge for many of us for too long now. Why couldn't they make at least some effort to keep game more exciting and challenging before revamp day comes alive. At the moment any content is trivial with PDT towers and protons beams as such.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely found dd1 better balanced and more enjoyable. It had better difficulty and pacing with the campaign. Nightmare was really challenging and rewarding to overcome with a group of friends. It also had more stat variety and I think dd2s stat system (and sphere system) are to simplified and boring. The only problem I had with dd1 is loot was a bit too randomized and it was hard finding an upgrade. 

Honestly, you sound burnt out. Maybe it's time to play another game and come back to this. Path of Exile releases a new expansion in a few days as does World of Warcraft. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided looks awesome and just got released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it confirmed that there are going to be zero updates between now and late September? I can't imagine that we'll have to wait a full month for an update, considering the new map is probably pretty much done right now. If there is an update before then (i feel like there's going to be one soon - the last update was herald of embermount, which was the 16th. Before that was molten citadel, on the 2nd, so if we go by the trend of a bigger update every 2 weeks, there's probably going to be one on the 30th? But that's just pure speculation, and hopeful, biased speculation at that :P)

I highly doubt that we'll have to wait a full month for at least some of the known bugs to get fixed. In terms of difficulty stuff, I really can't see much happening until the revamp, which is probably going to be with the mystic or even after it. The amount of coding to give mobs at least somewhat smart pathing/attacking/grouping, along with probably creating brand new mechanics for mobs is probably insane. Not to mention they probably will test the crap out of it before letting it go live, so it doesnt completely break the game, which could take anywhere from a week to a couple months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The end game players are the minority.

- Trendy 2016


But seriously though, this campaign update is amazing - for players who are coming into the game. Which to be fair is an important process for Trendy and DD2. First Impressions matter a lot and ensuring that players want to stick around, play the game, and pay $$ is vital to the longevity of DD2.

Unfortunately no word on Loot 2.0 or really anything substantial for us endgame NM4 players. We really just need overhaul of major game mechanics. Hopefully that's what they'll be working on now. I'd also like them to hire someone full time who actually has experience in game balance as well; not to throw shade at whom ever has been in charge of that for the last year, but finding a balance seems to be a massive struggle for them, w/ or w/o passives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont mind the campaign changes, sounds like it might be an improvement though. There is one thing that stuck out to me. Harbinger is the main bad guy or final bad guy? I kinda hope they arent going to end campaign with that fight, cause the way the battle ended just REAKS of much more to unfold, like more bosses, more campaign maps, more of the story that makes it feel like more of an ending, or an ending at all really cause it feels like, by the time you beat harbinger, you're only about half way through the story line o.0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[[5651,users]] I hardly play the game atm, besides letting my dailies stack and then doing them. I have been playing other games alot more. I'm not burned out, I'm just extremely disappointed.

[[43706,users]] The true hardcore players have left this game along time ago, what you are hearing from with others is that they are content in face rolling content. Minimal work for high rewards is fine according to them. True hardcore players want to be challenged and rewarded accordingly.

I would suggest Trendy to grow a pair and either give NM it's balls back or make a new difficulty called Hell which brings us back to the glory days of DD1. Enough of this we try to cater to everyone BS, you need to define groups of people in this game and I'm a big believer that not everyone and there dog should be doing NM mode. Not initally and people who are at the highest difficulty should not be able to clear it with ease.

You need to keep challenging them and every victory should actually feel rewarding when cleared. So enemies should be alot stronger and constantly challenge you with how they approach your defenses, ie Sharken, Spiders, Djinn and Goblin Copters making you think how to stop them.

Every enemy included in this game is considered trash mob, including Ogre's. Oh how far they have fallen from DD1 is a disgrace.

[[70820,users]] It's confirmed on there facebook that next week you get nothing but quality of life changes. So yup no mid-milestone next week. Also I never said you won't get new content in 2 month's time, but it's revealed you won't get any challenging content. At best the new map will stump you for a few tries and then you will figure out a strategy and just face roll it after that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our time will come and we will shine, gobu. And then you will feel and fear us gob gobu!

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Huntress.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Goblin.png

#2017

Just do a crazy weekend! For endgameplayers, let these few fools fight for their pragging rights!

Activate on NM4 all maps 10 stats on monster, mini oger and goblins, elemental shamans, boss bees, bomber boss spawn and Malthius spawn only. Just go crazy you have nothing to loose over one weekend, and some might enjoy this madness XD. It could also made an interesting way to test stuff out. :D A Map full of spooky heroes.

No in all seriouse gobuness, i know thats actually alot of work to pull off ;).


I am fine with waiting though. More Story is always nice and i voted for it back then when the question came up too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We all agreed the campaign was not good in its current situation. It's an important issue that needs to be fixed and tested before the game gets "released." 

Trendy's team has got to be pretty small compared to other titles. Best to use all your resources to get one major issue or of the way rather than spread yourself so thin so you don't get any issues resolved.

Tunnel vision gets a bad rap it's the best way to knock out one major fix. Look at the largest MMO on the market World of Warcraft. The beginning experience was rough in that game they released a 60 dollar expansion just to fix the leveling of characters and flow of quests from one zone to another. Cataclysm expansion is usiversally agreed as having the worse end game for any WoW expansion but developers knew they had to focus on getting and retaining new players so they focused their efforts on not losing people on reaching end game. 

At least here we should only have to worry about a monthly patch in an alpha game. I'm one of the guys who has nothing to do but farm select incision maps for 750 gear with better passives than what I currently have but I have zero issues on this next release. It had to come eventually why not now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trendy don't listen to this. A true campaign mode has been needed for a long time. Anything to help out new players is a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They can't do everything at once.  I just not sure if coming out with so many new characters is good for them right now, as they just create more bugs and such slowing them down, when they should focus on more other important things instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disclaimer, I am going to have to resort to using words like "hardcore" and "casual" despite how little i like these terms, but they do serve a purpose when trying to differentiate two types of player base. 

I used to be a hardcore raider in World of Warcraft, I co raid lead the highest ranked 3 day  25 man (later 20 man) guild in the world despite us only raiding 11 hours total a week, and one thing I learned from that was; hardcore end game progression players are less then 0.1% of the player base. 

So a game will not survive if you only care about hardcore players, you have to care about casuals first, and then crucially to have a game of substance and longevity you need to also give your hardcore audience what it wants. But I do believe the the hardcore audience are lower on the priority list due to their clear low numbers and usually a high level of loyalty to the game then casuals.

When it comes to difficulty I see a hell of a lot of active maps when I check under "hard", by the time I check under NM4, and incursions at that (as that is the only thing one could call "end game") there is almost no maps active.
So making content harder for what? for that tiny minority? I don't see how that is a good business move, when they have other issues to deal with like a campaign, new items and heroes that everyone relentlessly purchases.

If the hardcore community want harder content (though I would argue bug fixes and balance is much more important) make your views known with your wallets. Stop buying their new heroes and give them an incentive to improve the game. Complaining about their business strategy and then allowing yourself to fall victim to it is about as unprincipled a position you could possibly fathom.

On a total side note and to sate my curiosity; as an Englishman I have always wondered why Americans say "could care less" rather then "couldn't care less"? 

on a second side note, try playing original heroes only (excluding PDT's), stick to the new incursions on solo and you will be amazed how much fun you can have. Original DPS hero, Original builders and assuming you are not geared to the teeth they are actually fun and can be challenging.

 I actually lost 2 Bastille's in a row yesterday! the first time, I was not paying attention and 1 lane spawned 2 ogres, which resulted in one climbing my barricade and hitting my core, the second fail I got awful spawns of skeletons and Malthius' over and over which dragged out the game resulting in a failed timer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[[31611,users]] Why not now? Mostly because people have been waiting for this revamp to add some difficulty, which is fine. However in the mean time you have nothing to keep you playing. Gearing up new characters is quite boring atm, especially with the horrendous drop rate of ipwr 750 items and face rolling every mob in the game gets boring fast. 

Campaign was the least of their worries, bug fixes should of been a priority or you know getting the core gameplay in check. This game still lacks any depth to it and strategy is just non existant.

[[131681,users]]-Sha-Bom Don't worry this will be continued to be ignored as per usual, you will get your campaign fix as scheduled. Helping out new players is fine, but that's all Trendy seems to be focused on. 

[[122404,users]] Agreed with the constant release of characters, to do what exactly?

[[74672,users]] Amen to that.

[[150185,users]] Appealing to casuals in the first place is what has got Trendy in this mess. They simplified everything great about DD1 to cater to everyone and by doing that have caused nothing but problems.

  • Dumbed down armor system
  • Legendaries that aren't rare, because hooray! everyone is a winner
  • Pets used only for their abilities
  • Original DD2 maps simple in design
  • Enemies that are brain dead and happily walk to their death
  • Ogre trains gone, because god forbid we have something to pressure a lane
  • An infinite survival mode which gives you no real goal or incentive to play besides boredom
  • Nightmare mode which is anything but
  • Hardcore mode never to return
  • OP Hero's with underpowered enemies

I can go on and on. 

Also no hardcore player is buying Hero's with real money That would be the casuals. So I don't know where you got that notion from. I could vote with my wallet sure, but then I have hundreds of other people doing the opposite.  As for the hardcore community aspect, hardcore players also existed in DD1 and even now that game is thriving. So I can't completely agree with you there saying they should soley cater to the casual market. 

The problem with appealing to the casual players as your majority is that most of them aren't going to stay. Then the actual loyal players feel ignored so they leave or take a break from the game until things finally improve. Which is what I have done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing a game in alpha stage to a finished game which has been updated for years makes a lot of sense...

The campaign revamp is by far the best thing to do to satisfy the hard-core audience. It means that ALL maps will be rebalanced and also that at high difficulty all maps will be challenging. 

You are criticizing the developers as if they were blind but they know their mistakes and are working on it, they are preparing a new map among other things, working on rebalancing the4 main heroes and so on. 

Giving feedback is a thing criticizing freely for no reason is an other. Specially when nothing new is said. They never pretended the game was over, it is not released yet as such it is early access you can't expect the game to have an infinite content and perfect quality. The game is already much better than most games of the gender even if it is in alpha state. Why are you complaining? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And just a reminder the vanilla DD1 had far less content that the current state of DD2.

It has only campaign not so many maps 4 characters with terrible balancing and almost 0 synergy between character, faceroll squire was overpowered and the game was not hard at all. 

So again,stop whining that an early access game is less deep that a game updated over years 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Sombrero quote:

The campaign revamp is by far the best thing to do to satisfy the hard-core audience. It means that ALL maps will be rebalanced and also that at high difficulty all maps will be challenging.

Wait, what? How does that even make sense? They won't mess with the map nor the mechanics/behavior of the mobs, they'll rearrange the order to fit a storyline, make it take less time to finish - I'm guessing reducing the maximum number of waves in all maps to 5 instead of 7 in all campaign - and preparing the finishing campaigners the gear to succefully walk into nightmare levels without much problems.

In no way the revamped campaign has anything to do with the hardcore playerbase as it doesn't affect them in any sort of way.

In fact, making the campaign go from level 1 to 50 might actually give them the wrong idea that making the hardcore players go through the entire campaign everytime we want to level a new character is a good one by nerfing the harb exp or buffing him in campaign to like 10M HP.

It can actually cause more harm than good to the hardcore playerbase than you might expect. In the best case scenario, they keep harb just like it is now and the patch won't even be noticed by the hardcore players except on the bugs & fixes part of the update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@KnowsNoLimits quote:
  • Dumbed down armor system
  • Legendaries that aren't rare, because hooray! everyone is a winner
  • Pets used only for their abilities
  • Original DD2 maps simple in design
  • Enemies that are brain dead and happily walk to their death
  • Ogre trains gone, because god forbid we have something to pressure a lane
  • An infinite survival mode which gives you no real goal or incentive to play besides boredom
  • Nightmare mode which is anything but
  • Hardcore mode never to return
  • OP Hero's with underpowered enemies

I can go on and on. 

You are comparing an Alpha unfinished game with a finished product, which is very unfair. Take Diablo 3 verse Diablo 2, When d3 came out (a finished game) people compared it to diablo 2 and stated its simplicity was unacceptable. But that comparison was to an old highly patched diablo 2 which even included an expansion. If you compare diablo 3 to diablo 2 now, they are competitive with each other in fun though vastly different kinds of game. 

Now I still rate d2 higher, but thats a mixture of enjoying skill trees, runewords, crafting and nostalgia, but it feels more of a subjective opinion, when you could pretty objectively say d2 was superior to d3 in its early days.


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Also no hardcore player is buying Hero's with real money That would be the casuals. So I don't know where you got that notion from. I could vote with my wallet sure, but then I have hundreds of other people doing the opposite.  

Regarding the first part, thats simply not true, and in I made it quite clear that supporting a game that is not doing what you wish was the issue, rather then just paying for new heroes. Buying skins, bags, heroes etc for a game that you feel is bad, is not going to change anything. 
Regarding the second part, saying "well I will keep spending money, because I wont make a difference" is not just a cop out, but is also missing the point about having some integrity. Not having any integrity but demanding it from the Trendy is a little rich in my view.


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

 So I can't completely agree with you there saying they should soley cater to the casual market. 

I did not say soley, that is a prime example of a straw man position.


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

The problem with appealing to the casual players as your majority is that most of them aren't going to stay. Then the actual loyal players feel ignored so they leave or take a break from the game until things finally improve. Which is what I have done.

Appealing to casual players is synonymous with appealing to new players, this brings in new potential hardcore players and builds the community. Now yes if you utterly ignore the hardcore community you have a game with no substance (which I stated in my original post) and that can kill a game to.  But regarding the update as that is what we are talking about here they made the right decision to improve the campaign first, and improve end game later.

Lets not forget the tiny hardcore minority is aware of issues with a game long before the greater community, and that is half the reason hardcore players seem to always feel the game is not doing enough. Those guys in the middle, or just starting out have a very different perspective on the game in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Rebel Gnome quote:
@Sombrero quote:

The campaign revamp is by far the best thing to do to satisfy the hard-core audience. It means that ALL maps will be rebalanced and also that at high difficulty all maps will be challenging.

Wait, what? How does that even make sense? They won't mess with the map nor the mechanics/behavior of the mobs, they'll rearrange the order to fit a storyline, make it take less time to finish - I'm guessing reducing the maximum number of waves in all maps to 5 instead of 7 in all campaign - and preparing the finishing campaigners the gear to succefully walk into nightmare levels without much problems.

In no way the revamped campaign has anything to do with the hardcore playerbase as it doesn't affect them in any sort of way.

In fact, making the campaign go from level 1 to 50 might actually give them the wrong idea that making the hardcore players go through the entire campaign everytime we want to level a new character is a good one by nerfing the harb exp or buffing him in campaign to like 10M HP.

It can actually cause more harm than good to the hardcore playerbase than you might expect. In the best case scenario, they keep harb just like it is now and the patch won't even be noticed by the hardcore players except on the bugs & fixes part of the update.

Having the campaign bringing heroes to lvl 50 means that it is not required to re-do it in higher difficulties to reach high level. Which means that higher difficulties will be devoted to lvl 50 which means that highest difficulties can be harder and have all maps being challenging instead of following the campaign order. Just like Nightmare in DD1 worked having all enemies from the game etc. 


And the revamp will rebalance the maps it doesn't mean makes them easier at all...  The game used to be absurdly "difficult"  the devs are aware it is currently too easy but they do learn from their mistakes and don't intend to just boost monsters stats to oblivion to make game artificially harder.  Endgame will be better when the new squads system is in place and the new enemies are in the game (dark elves already announced).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but nightmare was already based on level 50 heroes by item level restriction alone, so it still doesn't make sense that the game should be harder when nightmare is already projected to level 50's. The campaign revamp is irrelevant to the hardcore players, and like I mentioned, it could do more harm than good if trendy goes full retard, which I'm pretty sure they won't - but you never know.

The strategic revamp is something entirely different from the campaign revamp. Besides - and since I've mentioned this like 2-3 times in other threads now I won't make a huge post about it - the strategic revamp will still be balanced towards the iPWR drop range of the difficulty in question, so in NM4 example people with high enough iPWR heroes 730-740+ will still have no problems dealing with the new mobs/mechanics that are designed for 660-700 iPWR itens. So it won't matter a whole lot. It'll get a bit harder, that's it. It'll be like playing NM3 with the standard NM4 gear, except with new mechanics, mobs and mob behavior. People don't believe me so I just stopped saying this, but once the strategic revamp arrives I'll probably be around to say "I told you...". Hopefully I'm wrong, but I honestly think I'm not. Emoji_AbyssLord.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Rebel Gnome quote:

The strategic revamp will still be balanced towards the iPWR drop range of the difficulty in question, so in NM4 example people with high enough iPWR heroes 730-740+ will still have no problems dealing with the new mobs/mechanics that are designed for 660-700 iPWR items.

Thank you, I keep telling my friends this and they refuse to believe me. Once you get your 650 gear from liferoot you should be able to tackle all the maps in the game. You can't make a map that drops 660-700 ipwr gear unbeatable by people with less than a 700 ipwr.

Now I'm sure fails will be more common until we figure out the best builds and complete afk will most likely not be a thing. However, people pushing 750 on all their builders are most likely going to be very let down on just how much more difficulty the revamp will bring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DD2 is an unfinished game, it would make no sense to focus on the endgame first, when so many things are not working well yet.

Every now and then, they will release a new map with new loot. Of course I wish I have a new map to farm everyday. But that's not possible. So, we just have to wait, and take a break for a few month now and then to give them time.

I myself took a break just before the abyss lord, came back 3 weeks ago, and I think I'm going to leave the game again soon. Be back in december maybe.

It's either that, or you don't play early access game and you wait for the game to be fully released to play it.

Now, if they release a NM V, NM VI or NM VII mode with just higher stats loot and mobs, I would be happy, but this kind of lazy way to add content would hurt the game in the long run.

TL:DR  :  We have no choice but to wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get where [[24592,users]] is coming from and I agree. I'd like some more challenge to the game.

I'm not playing the game as often as I used to because I can do everything that there is to do right now and farming for 750 Ipwr gear is pretty pointless since there is no reason for it other than bragging rights. 

However I understand why Trendy are focusing more on the early game stuff as first impressions are everything and if the start of your game is too complex or too hard or even generally unpolished  then people will turn away from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...