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MrHotDog

Golden enemies after the CDT 2 Update

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@johan_kid quote:

When golden enemies were buffed it was from the very ratinal point of view that we should not have pointless/unimportant enemies in the game. Then we "might as well remove them" as Alhanalem said previously but it becomes the responsibitlity of the community to make sure that it's carried out properly.

Except you are mistaken if buffing golden mobs adds to any challenge.
The land based mobs are no issue golden or not regardless of wave, map or mode.
The concern is with Golden Wyvern. 
As EagleOne said -- becasue of 1 enemy-type everything you built gets ruined.
I haven't tested it thoroughly, but from the few pubs I did, I'll point down my experience with GOLDEN WYVERNS specifically.

  • Sky City NMHC Survival wave 23 -- all of a sudden -- REKT. Golden Wyvern goes through entire aura stack at North and rekts the map. The guy who built was at 1.5 to 2.5k stats he/she said. Guy was thoroughly gutted, said that was the highest they had reached on Sky City. So apparently new players trying to progress are getting affected by this, which sucks.

  • Embermount NMHC Survival(yeah some guy was doing it on pub!) wave 30 -- all of a sudden -- REKT. Golden Wyvern manages to get till the crystal and boom just like that map's done. Guy had 5.5k+ Stats across and we were rolling 3x potions and kill% all the time. Even then we got REKT, because of 1 damn Wyvern.

  • Gave it a second try, we were looking at the map for Wyverns and killing them off. Due to this, the actual defenses weren't getting much attention, but we made it till wave 34. On Wave 34, we were rolling the wheel at the same time, the other Monk didn't pay attention on the map(not his fault) and boom REKT -- Wyvern goes through.

  • I gave Akatiti Survival a shot just for the lulz. Some Golden Wyverns got deadly close to the crystal on wave 28. No problems other than that. My stats are 6k+. But even then the Wyverns were getting deadly close.

From these 4 scenarios, you tell me is the Golden Wyvern really a challenge or just an annoying nuisance? It's not a challenge whatsoever. Its just that -- now instead of focusing your attention on the actual map and dealing land defense/mobs you have to stare at the sky for Golden Wyverns. Doesn't sound much of a challenge to me honestly.

I personally don't have any problems becasue I don't do Survival Runs(too boring for my taste). But even with 6k Stats all across, if I'm having random issues with Golden Wyverns on Survival then I can bet you what the people trying to make it to the end might be facing -- considering that Survival is one of the key elements vis-a-vis progression. And having a random bird break down your entire build is HARDLY A CHALLENGE., NOT EVEN CLOSE.

I can understand a guy with low stats struggling with land based mobs and such and maybe once in a while with a Djinn/Copter. But Wyverns are essentially trash-mob and someone trying to progress getting rekt by them is what I call a tragedy and extremely disheartening.

Just becasue the Select few Elites want a challenge, which let be very clear -- this isn't, but even if it is, that doesn't mean everyone is okay with it.

With unnecessary annoyances like these, the already thin active playerbase is being alienated because some want the Golden Wyverns to be spawning with crazy HP and resis so that they can take out the crystal in 1 hit.

Also this concern is being raised by people who have well over 1500 hours in the game. So that should mean something.
I can understand if someone with 50-100 hours complaining about NMHC Shards being being too hard, that is just a case of  "git-gud". But this here is broken as heck.


I'd also like to make one point, might tickle a few jimmes, but I need to make it. No offense to anyone, please.
When Alhanalem says that he is a content creator and not a player. That raises a serious concern for me. If you don't play high-end or such, then how can you really talk about "challenge". You are not playing but you are essentially suggesting something to be a "challenge" for those who want it. Fair enough, but THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE. Embermount is. I don't see anyone saying "Ember is too hard nerf pls" or "XYZ map is hard nerf pls". Difficulty and challenge is not the case here, simple as that. I'm all for difficulty and challenges but this Golden Wyvern is a mess at best.

Thank you very much.

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@ddace quote:


Seems like this definitely needs some adjustment.  The question would be does it need a full revert or just toned down from 5x to 2x or 3x?  Or do we need to change the gold enemy attack priority?

I personally wouldn't like a full revert as now gold enemies mean something and I don't just ignore them.  

That's a very good question.  One I'm probably not very qualified to answer.  I'm basing my opinion on the comments that say it is only an issue when dealing with a wyvern, which forces a player to camp the wyvern lanes just in case one turns golden.

I don't think it's a matter of numbers.  It's either going to be so low you can ignore it, or so high that it demands constant player attention.  I would say it's a matter of mechanics.  Maybe the golden enemies can be changed to something more engaging?  For example, you could have the Djiin's buffing them tag along, and a percentage of damage done to the Djiin is instead sent to the golden enemy (this would require at the very least a complete revert to pre-buff numbers), which then turns the gold enemy from a dps meter to a "shield" of the Djiin buffing it, and with proper knockback or something you can distance them away from each other, causing the tether to break.  Or some other interaction, I haven't really thought about it extensively.  At the very least, it probably shouldn't be effecting Wyverns, as they essentially bypass defenses.  The point is, so long as it's just this flat steroid buff for random mobs, I don't think there's going to be any "correct" balance number.

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You could make golden mobs like copter ogres, where they don't target/damage crystals and instead attack players and such.  Just an idea :)

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I rather like the idea of golding an enemy changing its targeting priority. That would pretty quickly eliminate the golded enemies rushing past defenses issue while keeping the golding a reasonably impactful effect.

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@Alhanalem quote:

I rather like the idea of golding an enemy changing its targeting priority. That would pretty quickly eliminate the golded enemies rushing past defenses issue while keeping the golding a reasonably impactful effect.

Agreed.
The copters don't pose a threat anyway if one is using reflections smartly. So having the Golden Wyverns Changing attack priority to defenses AND heroes in case of no attackable defenses seems reasonable for an air-based mob.
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@Acen, I'm also in favor of reducing their HP buff to 1.5 to 2.5x at most, depending on enemy type that is being made golden. Like I told you on Steam chat about the Golden spiders going upwards of 2.5m in HP on Turkey Hunt was pretty insane. Its just a damn spider they don't need the HP of a mIni-Ogre even if they get turned golden!

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