CDT Update 3 Discussions Incoming!! We Need Your Input!!

Pretty much what [[62751,users]] said.
[[19066,users]] -- That does sound reasonable. And to add to it, perhaps the number of EVs can be reduced to 12-13 so that they can be actually killed(ASSAULTED!) within the given time limit rather than having them jump off the conveyor belt thanks to their current AI. And since they usually get stuck in corners, maybe adding minimap icons for their locations could help a bit.

But then again, we don't know how majority of the people would take to these changes.

Hahaha, again the discussion to drop more Ult and higher... great story Caimon and Co :D

I see you guys learnt nothing from previous RNG changes -.-

crzy's "fix" to the RNG resulted into more Sup/Ult but at what cost? ***ty myths/trans and sups/ults are also coming much more frequent with 200-220ish^... everyone considered this an upgrade... just because MOAR sup/ult was dropping, completely ignoring the far more superior drops myth/trans drops from previous RNG.

Instead of completely reverting his shoddy fix, you guys are discussion about minimal upgrade level just like it happens for Ult++ now. This is so freaking ridiculous of certain stat ******.

Too bad I was bored today and checked the forums :/

I still call DDE out for all your "stat Inflation" wishes... multiple stats at 8k-10k or single stats to 17k is what you can get on DDE... you so called high-end elitists are playing solo anyways... why you don't give DDE a chance?

@Alhanalem quote:

I don't know. I guess it just bothers me that something that doesn't work as intended can't easily be fixed just because a certain unspoken amount of time has passed.

Yes, it's true that such issues should have been dealt with much sooner, but it doesn't make it less frustrating when you have the ability to address something but can't for reasons outside of capability.

I agree with this, just because time has past doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. The genie is a perfect example of this, a bug which simply wasn't suppose to be in the game which can easily be fixed, but over the years nobody wants to fix it because it profits them. And the solution was doing nothing, keep the bug in the game. Same is for lab now, it upped the standards of armour making supremes and ult (+,++) way more comon making any other way for gear farming "not worth your time". Now we try to buff up survivals and such to make them more interesting towards lab, that is not fixing the problem, that is just shoving the problem somewhere else! We know where the problem started, and buffing everything up just because something else was a bit to good is simply not balancing a game, but a start of potentially ****ing everything up and make things worse. But yeah nerfing lab might be just my unpopular opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

@Alhanalem quote:

@EV AI thing:

It's well known that the EV bot behavior is ridiculously dumb. :p  I"m actually not sure if it is improvable. But hypothetically, let's just say we could. How do you think people would react if the EVs were smartened up a bit (e.g. don't commit suicide as readily) and also adjusted the time limit upward to compensate for the reduction in stupidity? I would think that would make the experience a little more fun, personally. But I could also forsee people not liking it taking any longer even if the actual difficulty doesnt change. Just random thoughts, really. Totally hypothetical, as I tend to ramble.

When lab just came out and the drill suicide exploit was not found yet, people would actually team up to kill all the EV's which made it a quite fun map. Making the EV AI not suicide will make nightmare probably harder (still soloable by jester or barb most likely), but it doesn't take away that the rewards from (easy-hard?) insane are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to good.

Since you called, I'll respond once and I'll keep this short

For clarity: quality = a measure of the total stat potential of an item, tier = godly/myth/etc.

The way the tier of an item of mythical or greater tier is evaluated has not changed between 8.0 and 8.2 (NOTE: sub mythical did change slightly. You'll notice items with 8 negatives aren't godly tier anymore).

In 8.1, a bug was introduced that noticably increased the quality of dropped armour. All stats were averaging higher and the frequency of higher tier armour generating doubled (roughly). This increased was noticed by a number of people and objected to rather strongly.

In 8.2, said bug was removed. Averages dropped back to what they were with 8.0. At the same time we also removed the items that were guaranteed to be complete rubbish without any RNG interference.

In summary:
8.2 vs 8.1: Slightly lower averages, more quantity
8.2 vs 8.0: Same averages, more quantity

@EagleOne quote:

Hahaha, again the discussion to drop more Ult and higher... great story Caimon and Co :D

I see you guys learnt nothing from previous RNG changes -.-

crzy's "fix" to the RNG resulted into more Sup/Ult but at what cost? ***ty myths/trans and sups/ults are also coming much more frequent with 200-220ish^... everyone considered this an upgrade... just because MOAR sup/ult was dropping, completely ignoring the far more superior drops myth/trans drops from previous RNG.

Instead of completely reverting his shoddy fix, you guys are discussion about minimal upgrade level just like it happens for Ult++ now. This is so freaking ridiculous of certain stat ******.

Too bad I was bored today and checked the forums :/

I still call DDE out for all your "stat Inflation" wishes... multiple stats at 8k-10k or single stats to 17k is what you can get on DDE... you so called high-end elitists are playing solo anyways... why you don't give DDE a chance?

wtf is this nonsense

my only input has been asking about how a certain change could have been implemented

@caimen

Just the most recent...

https://dungeondefenders.com/1/topic/139132/?scrollTo=1240003&page=1

crzy

You probably should play the game more than occasional. Then you would have experienced the same things... sadly changes you are doing will be not tested long enough by you and the cdt... otherwise we wouldn't have to deal with a screwed RNG, OP³ Towers and golden enemies which are one-shotting crystals like we experienced it in our first hours on NM. If I read comments from CDT members who are claiming these things are not issues then they are misplaced... especially if they haven't earnt all achievements of the game... to read: beaten old and new Content of the game. Oh well... let these guys talk more about changes they have no clue about... I'm too lazy to argue with you guys :P

@EagleOne quote:

@caimen

Just the most recent...

https://dungeondefenders.com/1/topic/139132/?scrollTo=1240003&page=1

crzy

You probably should play the game more than occasional. Then you would have experienced the same things... sadly changes you are doing will be not tested long enough by you and the cdt... otherwise we wouldn't have to deal with a screwed RNG, OP³ Towers and golden enemies which are one-shotting crystals like we experienced it in our first hours on NM. If I read comments from CDT members who are claiming these things are not issues then they are misplaced... especially if they haven't earnt all achievements of the game... to read: beaten old and new Content of the game. Oh well... let these guys talk more about changes they have no clue about... I'm too lazy to argue with you guys :P

Our last beta update was available to the public for like months. Just saying. It's not like you or anyone else doesn't have the chance to give feedback on it.

@Alhanalem quote:

@EagleOne quote:

@caimen

Just the most recent...

https://dungeondefenders.com/1/topic/139132/?scrollTo=1240003&page=1

crzy

You probably should play the game more than occasional. Then you would have experienced the same things... sadly changes you are doing will be not tested long enough by you and the cdt... otherwise we wouldn't have to deal with a screwed RNG, OP³ Towers and golden enemies which are one-shotting crystals like we experienced it in our first hours on NM. If I read comments from CDT members who are claiming these things are not issues then they are misplaced... especially if they haven't earnt all achievements of the game... to read: beaten old and new Content of the game. Oh well... let these guys talk more about changes they have no clue about... I'm too lazy to argue with you guys :P

Our last beta update was available to the public for like months. Just saying. It's not like you or anyone else doesn't have the chance to give feedback on it.

The beta was out for months indeed, that never was the problem. The problem was nobody actually playing the damn thing (myself included because I didn't have the time untill weeks before release). We all can see the results of what would happen if people would have had played the beta, aka all these forum posts after release. 

We're a small group of people. We need the community's involvement to help make these updates the best they can be. That's part of the reason we have the betas. We even do surveys on them asking if people think the updates are ready (e.g., if a lot of ppl are saying 'no' it clearly isn't). That's part of the reason it's the "Community" devleopment team. It's not just that the people behind it are members of the community, the community itself needs to be involved for it to work its best. We are regular people like you doing this in our free time for free, and the updates are free. We're humans. People miss things, people make mistakes. You might find a bug and be like "how could they have missed this?". There could be many reasons why. But that's why we need your - the communty's - help.

Of course I'm also involved with the DD2 RQA team which is a similarly sized group that spends many hours testing things and you still get people saying "why didn't anybody test this  #&$%?" despite the fact we DID spend a lot of time testing it. QA testing is one of those things that seems easy from the outside, but if you aren't directly involved in it you really don't know.

TL;DR. Consider checking out our next beta and giving your feedback if you're reading this and haven't participated in the past. It is extremely valuable for us and everyone.

@Alhanalem quote:

Our last beta update was available to the public for like months. Just saying. It's not like you or anyone else doesn't have the chance to give feedback on it.

Feedback was given on so many topics but nullified by you guys because you said the feedback was coming from a minority and does not mirror the majority. The majority just said "well done", "go ahead", "I like", such a feedback is complete non-sense.

Sadly the concerns, particulally very detailed explained - in-depth - from the "minority" has been ignored. I complaint about so many things, nothing has been done before I did a lot of trouble in this forums. The CDT says they care about feedback? Serious feedback includes more than leaving two sentences just to participate at an event giveaway.

Building in spawn: Several people were against this change or at least have seen it very critical. We got told the community wanted it... I don't see so much explicit agreement in related topics... anyways the change has been enforced.

Buff of Squire: The old SND was broken on NM, the new one is as broken as before. Not just me said that the SND is overpowered... we were explaining why... anyways... people like caimen injected, saying the towers are great as is... just to admit later that they actually didn't test them yet.

So what's the point of giving feedback if you actually have to argue with people who have no clue about the things we are talking about. This pretty much leads to you now.

New achieves: You don't have all achievements.... of course you can't emphatize with people who already had all achievements. That's the major reason why you can't understand the point of view of others, who are against new Steam Achievements

Golden enemies: Between the lines I figured already that you had no clue what you are talking about... later my thoughts were confirmed by someone within the CDT since you admitted it internal. It's totally fine that everyone concentrates and works on different things within the CDT but if you do so... just talk about things you actually know about. You do new content? Fine, let's talk about Ember... oh wait... you haven't even beaten it yet :/

It's not just disruptive in the progress to collect and sort serious feedback but also frustrating and very annoying for anyone who takes the time to leave constructive, well-explained and reasoning feedback if someone jumps in who has no ******** clue about the said things. The mentioned points above are not the only ones, there are so many more but I figure it is pointless as all of the things already has been ignored in the past so they will be ignored now.

Long Story short; Serious Feedback and concerns were stated (not just by me) but ignored... changes has been enforced anyways. That's why others and I feel that the CDT works towards their own goals. I know you say otherwise and Acen did also but it does not explain changes the community was split beforehand :P

- Over and Out -

@EagleOne quote:

@Alhanalem quote:

Our last beta update was available to the public for like months. Just saying. It's not like you or anyone else doesn't have the chance to give feedback on it.

Feedback was given on so many topics but nullified by you guys because you said the feedback was coming from a minority and does not mirror the majority. The majority just said "well done", "go ahead", "I like", such a feedback is complete non-sense.

Sadly the concerns, particulally very detailed explained - in-depth - from the "minority" has been ignored. I complaint about so many things, nothing has been done before I did a lot of trouble in this forums. The CDT says they care about feedback? Serious feedback includes more than leaving two sentences just to participate at an event giveaway.

Building in spawn: Several people were against this change or at least have seen it very critical. We got told the community wanted it... I don't see so much explicit agreement in related topics... anyways the change has been enforced.

Buff of Squire: The old SND was broken on NM, the new one is as broken as before. Not just me said that the SND is overpowered... we were explaining why... anyways... people like caimen injected, saying the towers are great as is... just to admit later that they actually didn't test them yet.

So what's the point of giving feedback if you actually have to argue with people who have no clue about the things we are talking about. This pretty much leads to you now.

New achieves: You don't have all achievements.... of course you can't emphatize with people who already had all achievements. That's the major reason why you can't understand the point of view of others, who are against new Steam Achievements

Golden enemies: Between the lines I figured already that you had no clue what you are talking about... later my thoughts were confirmed by someone within the CDT since you admitted it internal. It's totally fine that everyone concentrates and works on different things within the CDT but if you do so... just talk about things you actually know about. You do new content? Fine, let's talk about Ember... oh wait... you haven't even beaten it yet :/

It's not just disruptive in the progress to collect and sort serious feedback but also frustrating and very annoying for anyone who takes the time to leave constructive, well-explained and reasoning feedback if someone jumps in who has no ******** clue about the said things. The mentioned points above are not the only ones, there are so many more but I figure it is pointless as all of the things already has been ignored in the past so they will be ignored now.

Long Story short; Serious Feedback and concerns were stated (not just by me) but ignored... changes has been enforced anyways. That's why others and I feel that the CDT works towards their own goals. I know you say otherwise and Acen did also but it does not explain changes the community was split beforehand :P

- Over and Out -

and that's why the feedback that should be considered is the one of old players in the game that knows what they are talking about not just some random guy who says "Great Work" to enter the giveaway for feedback 

you guys should take the feedback of people that understand the game very well even if some guy told you nice work don't take his feedback in consideration unless if he knows what he's talking about 

i'm not angry or anything just saying what should be done :)

Well it looks like the fractured nature of the community is visible for everyone.  It's a real shame.  A lot of much needed improvements could be brought into this game but it looks like the community is never going to have a consensus on anything.  I really wish Trendy hadn't dropped this game for DD2...oh well.

@kg4q quote:

and that's why the feedback that should be considered is the one of old players in the game that knows what they are talking about not just some random guy who says "Great Work" to enter the giveaway for feedback 

you guys should take the feedback of people that understand the game very well even if some guy told you nice work don't take his feedback in consideration unless if he knows what he's talking about 

i'm not angry or anything just saying what should be done :)

All feedback is taken seriously, I assure you [[82645,users]]. While it is nice to hear about someone who is happy we also need and want to hear about what isn't working as great and in fact we need more of it. Whether it's a a bug, a problem, or just a suggestion, it really helps to have multiple people telling us the same things. If you identify an issue and report it to us, encourage friends or anyone you know who have also seen it to do the same. You have to understand as well though- skill level in game doesn't necessarily add to or detract from the validity of feedback (like the bug with godly items dropping on low difficulty deeper well- anybody can reasonably report that as a problem, for instance) and if someone voices a concern, it should be taken seriously whether it's a known veteran or a newer player.

@Alhanalem quote:

@kg4q quote:

and that's why the feedback that should be considered is the one of old players in the game that knows what they are talking about not just some random guy who says "Great Work" to enter the giveaway for feedback 

you guys should take the feedback of people that understand the game very well even if some guy told you nice work don't take his feedback in consideration unless if he knows what he's talking about 

i'm not angry or anything just saying what should be done :)

All feedback is taken seriously, I assure you kg4q. While it is nice to hear about someone who is happy we also need and want to hear about what isn't working as great and in fact we need more of it. Whether it's a a bug, a problem, or just a suggestion, it really helps to have multiple people telling us the same things. If you identify an issue and report it to us, encourage friends or anyone you know who have also seen it to do the same. You have to understand as well though- skill level in game doesn't necessarily add to or detract from the validity of feedback (like the bug with godly items dropping on low difficulty deeper well- anybody can reasonably report that as a problem, for instance) and if someone voices a concern, it should be taken seriously whether it's a known veteran or a newer player.

Yes was just talking about the Deep things that only pro ppl know ^^
but yeah ofc there are alot of feedback that anyone can give :D
and if any crazy or good idea comes to my mind i'll be more than happy to share ;)

Is there any possible way for us to have the option to have a wave counter like on PS3 instead of sitting forever on NM survival. It would be nice to be able to afk it a little easier when watching a movie or something instead of having to keep flipping back over to start the wave.

If we have this and I'm blind and can't see it just ignore this. :p

@starfox64_0 quote:

Is there any possible way for us to have the option to have a wave counter like on PS3 instead of sitting forever on NM survival. It would be nice to be able to afk it a little easier when watching a movie or something instead of having to keep flipping back over to start the wave.

If we have this and I'm blind and can't see it just ignore this. :p

Great idea we need this xD

You can easily do what you're suggesting with a macro. Anyone that isn't uber enough to AFK survival isn't going to appriciate build timers being enabled same as campaign (I'm assuming that's what you mean. I've never played the PS3 version) for survival.

@Alhanalem quote:

You can easily do what you're suggesting with a macro. Anyone that isn't uber enough to AFK survival isn't going to appriciate build timers being enabled same as campaign (I'm assuming that's what you mean. I've never played the PS3 version) for survival.

While you can, it requires the agreement of Ice, since AFK farming with the help of macros is unwanted...

[[5896,users]] quote:

While generally don't like AHK for auto farming and stuff like that, using it for getting a perfect roll on the wheel, well hehe that's fine in this specific situation I guess. Though really don't need AHK for the wheel once you get used to it a lot for some people at least.

Suggestion :

this is a problem that is annoying to many of players wich is in the item box if i have alot of items for example coals and i want to put them in 1 folder i have to drag and drop piece by piece and not the whole thing 

so i suggest that we can select all item that we want then Drag and drop them in 1 Folder 

Like the ability to select all minions in overlord mode :

If we can do the same with the items in the box or something like that that will be Great :

Thanks to the CDT in advance ^^

Suggestions :

1- We all know that the items for in the tavern keeper shop is trash 

so why not in the next update put some good armor that the players can actually use like capping trans or even supreme armor from time to time appears in his shop that way players will be excited to buy from him.

2- sometimes when we want to make a public game then we hit create we decide that we don't want to anymore but the problem is that the option of canceling does not appear right away

so if you guys can make the cancel option appear right away so we can cancel it quick that will be great ^^

thanks to the add for there hard work 

Cheers kg4q 

A little quality of  life change could be when summoning a minion in the tavern, make it not take so long. You could have it take as long as it takes to summon them in build phase instead of combat phase.

@Magicuss quote:

A little quality of  life change could be when summoning a minion in the tavern, make it not take so long. You could have it take as long as it takes to summon them in build phase instead of combat phase.

yes we need this xD

Ahem, Tavernkeeper usually gets a stock of Trans armor or higher, but it extremely rare.
I'd say no to changing the Tavernkeep having an increased chance of stocking on higher quality armor becasue progression.
You don't want people to get Trans or higher armor right away. As if Lab hasn't made it ridiculously easy to get hold of good armor.
Besides, his item quality changes based on what maps you did and on which difficulty. Not all NMHC maps are same, so if you do Lab NMHC you'll find him keeping worn, cursed, torn items. If you do Kings Game NMHC, you'll find him keeping better items, and so on for different maps AND challenges.

Tavernkeeper is fine, he just needs to drink less ale and stop selling certain 53 mana items for 45 mana.

@Black Mamba quote:

Ahem, Tavernkeeper usually gets a stock of Trans armor or higher, but it extremely rare.
I'd say no to changing the Tavernkeep having an increased chance of stocking on higher quality armor becasue progression.
You don't want people to get Trans or higher armor right away. As if Lab hasn't made it ridiculously easy to get hold of good armor.
Besides, his item quality changes based on what maps you did and on which difficulty. Not all NMHC maps are same, so if you do Lab NMHC you'll find him keeping worn, cursed, torn items. If you do Kings Game NMHC, you'll find him keeping better items, and so on for different maps AND challenges.

Tavernkeeper is fine, he just needs to drink less ale and stop selling certain 53 mana items for 45 mana.

Even if he gives trans rarely it's all Trash so just at least make it better 

and you get armor after 100-200 runs in lab at least that you can use so is it easy to do 100-200 runs , No it's not 

this is my Final msg about this i don't to make it long (i'm not angry ^^)

@Black Mamba quote:

Ahem, Tavernkeeper usually gets a stock of Trans armor or higher, but it extremely rare.
I'd say no to changing the Tavernkeep having an increased chance of stocking on higher quality armor becasue progression.
You don't want people to get Trans or higher armor right away. As if Lab hasn't made it ridiculously easy to get hold of good armor.
Besides, his item quality changes based on what maps you did and on which difficulty. Not all NMHC maps are same, so if you do Lab NMHC you'll find him keeping worn, cursed, torn items. If you do Kings Game NMHC, you'll find him keeping better items, and so on for different maps AND challenges.

Tavernkeeper is fine, he just needs to drink less ale and stop selling certain 53 mana items for 45 mana.

You know that the tavernkeep's stock is based on the last completed map right? it can't really break progression because of this.