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CDT Update 3 Discussions Incoming!! We Need Your Input!!

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so im thinking, that system introduced in DDE for item filtering/comparing was quite decent, and i would love to see improoved version implemented, specificly i would like to be able to switch from comparing my current gear to comparing stats chosen in options for an item to be considered upgrade. furthermore i suggest that items considered upgrade should be shown on minimap not as green dots but instead original item colour surrounded by green circle, as that would allow for filtering trans+ qualities.

also it would be useful if one could set "importance" of stats compared, if you want gear for squire you want mostly attack and then rate, so you could make attack count as 3 rate as 2 and the rest as 1, or something like that, so that (thp+trate+trange) wouldnt be considered better than (tattack+trate)

and perhaps if its possible, you could try make item comparer speculate item upgrade route, depending for example on item imroptance previously mentioned, as in that case you would know if something is better after upgrading

and the last of my ideas is that for armors you could give turnable option for comparer to multiply item score by set bonus provided by respective item tier (myth, trans, etc)


I realise all of that would propably be a lot of work, but i quess these ideas, one more than another, could make dd life more enjoyable :D

*copied from my post on less viewed topic :D



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@EagleOne quote:
Re-thinking of item quality colors

Currently Trans and U++ are almost the same color, makes it hard to recognize a U++ drop... at least for me.

Do you see the U++?
8AAD745F439509F5FF197870F919835CFE44C44E


For a better color distinction I would completely reorganize the color scheme.

  • Blue for Mythical
  • Turquoise for Transcendent
  • Green for Supreme
  • Yellow for Ultimate
  • Orange for Ultimate+
  • Red for Ultimate++

This way we have a clear distinction between lower and higher quality items. The drawback of a change is that probably some people will be confused at first, people who have not taken any notice about it. Anyways, could we please try this within the next beta?

Yes. Its clearly on the corner of the long straightaway on the south side of the map.

This color scheme would only make distinguishing between current items harder. I have 0 issue discerning between Transcendent and Ult++ items; my only trouble is Ult+ and Ult++, which your color scheme would not help. Furthermore it is possible it would add further confusion between Myth and Trans as they are both shades of blue under your system.


Are you colorblind? If so, I advise a colorblind mode that changes minimap colors, because otherwise your system does not fix any of the problems that most people have and can only make it worse by adding yet another color similarity.

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@Caimen0 quote:


This color scheme would only make distinguishing between current items harder. I have 0 issue discerning between Transcendent and Ult++ items; my only trouble is Ult+ and Ult++, which your color scheme would not help.

How would it make distinction harder? I'm curious to know as it clearly differs between low quality and higher quality. Also funny that you claim current intended colors for U+/++ wouldn't help (these colors are chosen by the CDT). With other words, you do not check U+ gear anymore but only U++ gear? Worries of a high-end player.


@Caimen0 quote:Furthermore it is possible it would add further confusion between Myth and Trans as they are both shades of blue under your system.


Are you colorblind? If so, I advise a colorblind mode that changes minimap colors, because otherwise your system does not fix any of the problems that most people have and can only make it worse by adding yet another color similarity.

First off, there were already more people who mentioned that purple and red drops looks very similar, so no... I don't seem colorblind.

Secondly it amuses me that you are asking if I'm colorblind when you seem to have trouble to see the difference between current Mythical/Ultimate (turquoise/blue) such as supposed orange/red (which isn't even out yet due to a bug) since you mentioned it above. So you might follow your own advise and turn on colorblind mode? On the other hand this could be an explanation why you claimed before in several discussions that survival isn't dropping Ultimate.

Lastly I would prefer to mix up Myth/Trans (I doubt anyone has any issue to differ current Myth/Ult except you) than Trans/U++. Furthermore mixing up red/orange will be not a big deal as in regular players will pick up any U+/++ (and most likely any Ult, at least I do so) which is dropping on the map. You seem to be an exception, not wanting to check out or pick up U+ gear.

In addition trans stuff is dropping way more frequently than super rare U+/++ stuff, so finding an orange or red dot seems way easier than one red dot within an ocean of similar looking purple dots.


Just so you know about what colors we are talking....

Highest to lowest quality
tOcjUK4.png


What goes around comes around.

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though, Eagle, what about standard drops, godly and lesser, should they be grey? :P

your idea with stars wont work with lesser tiers becuse you took upgrade color. I think green should stay as upgrade indicator, just make it circle bigger than item tier color, it should be on top of grey, but below myth and and higher colors, and well, you can always change trans to pink, it differs more from red and orange than purple, i think XD

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Godly and lower was always grey :) And as mentioned for upgrade color... a white star instead of a dot. For better myths a blue star.

Pink for trans is also fine, I just liked the idea of the rainbow as indicator for quality, it is something more reasonable than a "chaotic" color mix :)

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They're similar colors, but I was able to see the location of the red dot at a glance.

Maybe there's another explanation besides color blindness. Maybe it could be different monitors or color calibration making the colors seem more similar for some people, even if they're not color blind. 

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@Plane quote:

They're similar colors, but I was able to see the location of the red dot at a glance.

Maybe there's another explanation besides color blindness. Maybe it could be different monitors or color calibration making the colors seem more similar for some people, even if they're not color blind. 

if you need a opinion from some one that is completely color blind im here to let you guys know that i am unable to see the difference between the dots they all just look like dots. main reason what i do is set it to only show sup or higher so i know where they are and if i need trans ill rotate though showing trans then sups and so forth. Takes more time but works for me.

> Atherial

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@Plane quote:

Maybe it could be different monitors or color calibration making the colors seem more similar for some people, even if they're not color blind. 

That's exactly the reason why some colors are looking so similar for some. Monitors are not standardized and every manufacture has its own technique while every user has its own preferences. I suggested the "rainbow" scheme to at least know if we are looking at lower or higher quality stuff. The hidden meaning of my suggested color scheme applies to a logical progress you do in the game starting from one end working up to the other end.



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Colored dots were originally used because they looked less messy on the map. My thought on this would be using distinct icons instead of colored dots. The problem is that it could look messy iwhen there are a lot of dots in one spot (Though, this could be mitigated depending on your filter level).

I'm not sure what people would think of that idea (assuming it was doable. I'm not sure- I'm not good at the UI stuff).

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Now when Alhanalem is speaking about icons... that could be even greater. I probably would limit it for Supreme+ or just for U+/++ since they are not dropping high frequently (except MB/Ember survival ^^) to prevent afraid messy look.


Alternatively if we are not bound to dots either just stars for U+/++ or when we also want to consider colorblind people colored characters? Like M for Mythical, T for Transcendent and so on.

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Please don't change the current colour scheme. I will never get used to purple being anything other than trans and whenever I see dark blue I can't help but think of ult after years of conditioning. I don't want to have to get used to a new color scheme.


Also, for the record, the only colours I confuse are ult+ and and++

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by any chanse, we can bring our saves from the ps3 ?? i have 100+ hours on the ps3 but is old and its almost broken (the controlers and network issues) , cant play any more, and i will love bring my save or at least some of the items i get from the events :/ its hard to rebuild it all again. 

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@jonymanolo quote:

by any chanse, we can bring our saves from the ps3 ?? i have 100+ hours on the ps3 but is old and its almost broken (the controlers and network issues) , cant play any more, and i will love bring my save or at least some of the items i get from the events :/ its hard to rebuild it all again. 

There is no way to do this, unfortunately. The data isn't compatible, even if you got it off the system. The console and PC versions of the game are too different.

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@ThePoet424 quote:

Please don't change the current colour scheme. I will never get used to purple being anything other than trans and whenever I see dark blue I can't help but think of ult after years of conditioning. I don't want to have to get used to a new color scheme.


Also, for the record, the only colours I confuse are ult+ and and++

I believe you will get used to the rainbow very quickly when you see suddenly 2673276 blue dots, realizing blue is now myth. Exactly that's why I started with blue for myth and not vice versa. Also the second color turquoise was always used to represent a lower quality. Myth and Trans are not so far away from each other. I admit that green for Supreme will be most likely the most confusing new color, while yellow/orange/red will be handy again. A test run within the beta would definitely clear the question if it's better or worse, if it takes much time or if it is just intuitive.


However I get your point and most likely I myself will have to 'get used' to a new color scheme. Showing Ult+/++ as stars while keeping old color scheme would be an absolute alternative to this. U+ could be shown as blue star for a better distinction between orange/red. Orange would be not needed anymore.


That way the issue is solved for whose who can't differ between orange/red and for whose who can't differ between purple/red. We are not making it better for people like Atherial though.


So we have now several suggestion:

A: Rainbow Color Scheme (will confuse some people first days, nonetheless I think intuitive and logical)

B: Instead of dots, using icons (much work, risk of a messy minimap)

C: Instead of dots, using first letter of the quality (does not solve the issue with orange/red but most likely very helpful for actual colorblind people)

D: Instead of dots, using stars for U+/++ (blue/red) (both parties are helped, no confusion)

E: Instead of current red for U++, we choose a darker red (both parties are helped, no confusion)


I'm up for either A or a mix of D and E. On the other hand just B or C would help actual colorblind people. This is why we should always discuss possible changes as changes affects everyone not just oneself.

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I think a quick change that could be made is the scroll bar on the shops/games menu. It's a really garish metallic color that doesn't fir the rest of the menu themes at all.

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@Caimen0 quote:

I think a quick change that could be made is the scroll bar on the shops/games menu. It's a really garish metallic color that doesn't fir the rest of the menu themes at all.

Caimen comes in with his fasion tips :)

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I've also personally found the Ult+ and Ult++ to be too similar to each other, but also too similar to proximity and inferno traps.  Aside from those 2 qualities and with the addition of the particle beam, I think it is good system.  However, I'll point out my concerns (constructive) for each option below.

A. I'm not particularly thinking about rainbows so often that for me personally it would be intuitive.  Logical, I would say would be subjective here.  Ascending or descending hex values could be logical to some people.
B. Icons as stated would get messy and too busy in my opinion.
C. As stated letters wouldn't distinguish Ult/Ult+/Ult++ so that doesn't seem optimal and an item would take up a larger space on the minimap
D. Stars, I would be strongly opposed to (unless we removed upgrade ones in an option).  It hard enough to see things near stars as it is
E. A darker red could work, but I'd still be concerned about it being masked by proxy icon.

The real issue is why does anyone even bother not filtering out everything aside from Ult++ anyways?  Joking obviously, though someday I'd like to be that level of DD rockstar and be able to do just that.


I seriously do think a concern for color blindness (and there are several types) is valid and have seen options and settings to alleviate that issue before in other various software or games.


@EagleOne quote:


@ThePoet424 quote:

Please don't change the current colour scheme. I will never get used to purple being anything other than trans and whenever I see dark blue I can't help but think of ult after years of conditioning. I don't want to have to get used to a new color scheme.


Also, for the record, the only colours I confuse are ult+ and and++

I believe you will get used to the rainbow very quickly when you see suddenly 2673276 blue dots, realizing blue is now myth. Exactly that's why I started with blue for myth and not vice versa. Also the second color turquoise was always used to represent a lower quality. Myth and Trans are not so far away from each other. I admit that green for Supreme will be most likely the most confusing new color, while yellow/orange/red will be handy again. A test run within the beta would definitely clear the question if it's better or worse, if it takes much time or if it is just intuitive.


However I get your point and most likely I myself will have to 'get used' to a new color scheme. Showing Ult+/++ as stars while keeping old color scheme would be an absolute alternative to this. U+ could be shown as blue star for a better distinction between orange/red. Orange would be not needed anymore.


That way the issue is solved for whose who can't differ between orange/red and for whose who can't differ between purple/red. We are not making it better for people like Atherial though.


So we have now several suggestion:

A: Rainbow Color Scheme (will confuse some people first days, nonetheless I think intuitive and logical)

B: Instead of dots, using icons (much work, risk of a messy minimap)

C: Instead of dots, using first letter of the quality (does not solve the issue with orange/red but most likely very helpful for actual colorblind people)

D: Instead of dots, using stars for U+/++ (blue/red) (both parties are helped, no confusion)

E: Instead of current red for U++, we choose a darker red (both parties are helped, no confusion)


I'm up for either A or a mix of D and E. On the other hand just B or C would help actual colorblind people. This is why we should always discuss possible changes as changes affects everyone not just oneself.


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One thing that I would like to see is a forge available after a successful Lab Assault run. I just think it would be a little more convenient to walk over to the forge if you see an Ult++ flash and you really want to know if it was an armor right away. I don't really run as many labs as I used to, so I wouldn't put it as a high priority unless it was extremely easy to do. 

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Is it possible to add a circle around mage minions when placing or moving them to show their heal range? Or maybe some other indication to see whether certain archers are safe within range or not?

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I guess the most needed update would be rebalancing items up from mythical, it is getting way out of hand at that point.

Other than that I'd really like to see DDE maps, private loot and maybe some more reward for teamplay, which is not really rewarded right now.


Thanks for keeping this game alive!

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@MrSossenbinder quote:

I guess the most needed update would be rebalancing items up from mythical, it is getting way out of hand at that point.

Other than that I'd really like to see DDE maps, private loot and maybe some more reward for teamplay, which is not really rewarded right now.


Thanks for keeping this game alive!

Could you be more specific as to the issues with balance you see?

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@Caimen0 quote:



@MrSossenbinder quote:

I guess the most needed update would be rebalancing items up from mythical, it is getting way out of hand at that point.

Other than that I'd really like to see DDE maps, private loot and maybe some more reward for teamplay, which is not really rewarded right now.


Thanks for keeping this game alive!

Could you be more specific as to the issues with balance you see?


I think the stat development towards mythical is very natural and understandable, because you start out with items which give like +5 tower stats, and you end up with mythicals, which give around 200-300. This is already a big jump, but it still feels okish.


However, as soon as you hit transcendent and upwards, as well as you gain access to treadmill pets, the stats just feel way too overloaded. Having 800 or 900 on a stat is just too much. You can't just push the stats upwards for 200 points every new "difficulty" you master,just to have some kind of progression. It just feels like these numbers are just made to be super big, but it just kind of loses the natural form of progression you experience for the first 70 levels into the game. It just blows up too quickly, and if it spirals out of control like this I think it's pretty hard to leave some space for future progression levels, some kind of power creep so to say.


Also, the difference between transcendent and ultimate is often not even noticeable. I just think trans should start out lower, so you actually feel like there is a real gap in the last few item tier levels.

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I envsion any new difficulty not introducing higher stats but simply, rather, being more difficult in unique ways- and rather than raising effective stat caps it would just offer better odds as far as rewards go.

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@kg4q quote:

btw guys does anyone know who are the CDT members ?

I think we had a list previously. For update 1 and 2 it was Otter, crzyrndm, mischief, alhanalem, gigazelle, thebeev, gunner, Harry and myself along with some testers.

We could still always use more map makers and a vfx artist in case any are interested  

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