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iamisom

Upcoming Hero Balance Changes

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Just got to hop on the whole "Trendy leaked a development build that sets dangerous precedents" bandwaggon.

First off, it's nice to see the melee system being reworked into something with more variety, so that weapon selection (But who plays Melee dps anyway amirite?) is an opportunity for different approaches to damage, not just stats-weighing. Hopefully this gets passed on to range weapons eventually aswell, so that we'll have more to think about than "how many times will it proc my chargy shooty sphere".

Back to the whole "ahmaigodwhathaveyoudoneyoumonsters" thing, apparently despite being apart of the meta and one of the only things that a Frosty buff would work on, EC traps weren't good enough, so we're quadrupling their damage. I've never been a fan of traptress, finding the idea of placing discrete damage zones to be as brain-dead as "head on: apply damage directly to the enemy", and was glad with DD2 there was more than just different flavors of damage, even though they didn't end up being viable (but how much of vanilla is anyway). Multiplying the damage seems to be not only way un-needed (already good) and OP (now too good) but just lazy when everyone here in the angst-bucket is clamoring for serious redesign. Especially when the Uber sticker was already "Traps, now with MORE DAMAGE, *and magic!".

RE: HP buffs. The idea that "it doesn't need boosts b/cuz we buffed the base tower" bothers me. For one thing, the name of the game at the current state is specialization, where you spend your time looking for the best passives to suit your particular focus. Removing build rolls (and many of them are just flat useless 2% minmaxing, on dps rolls too) just means we're back to looking at the two big numbers that roll on every piece of gear. Do you build? Get Tower stats (there's only two, and they roll together). Do you not build? Get DPS stats (there's also only two, and they also roll together). Crits are for RN-strate-G and EV nonsense. The forums seem to be, perversely enough, wanting to farm MORE, and while I'd prefer weapons to be the loci of more distinct playstyles as in DD1, if straight stats are all that matters that "The best gear in the game!" spreadsheet is going to get a lot more simple, and that little green thumb is going to be the only thought necessary to choose between boots.

The Apprentice and Monk need to be (more) radically buffed, from their Ubers to straight functionality, to shake up the current state of the game if nothing else. I'd hope that would be more than just heaping more damage on (which most of the Uber spheres are inherently anyway), but given popular sentiment the appearance of flux is more important than genuine gameplay depth at this point in time. That'll take time after all, and it's easier to say "Hey guys we doubled LSA damage" than "Lightning aura and Lightning strikes aura now attack faster based on the number of enemies in the AoE."

Also what that guy said about progressively unlocking towers to learn their strengths is totally right. You should listen to that guy.

Not killing the game by oversimplification, even if it is nobly cutting down on tedious grinding, should be the priority (IMO) going forward, which includes keeping all classes in circulation viable, even if that comes at the expense of true balance.

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@Sen quote:


@iamisom quote:

Apprentice

  • All Towers and Abilities now unlock at level 1

  • Magic Missile

    • Increased the max number of default marked targets to 8

    • Damage increased substantially

    • Cooldown removed

    • Mana cost reduced to 25

  • Tornado

    • Reduced cooldown to about 2 seconds

    • Knockup duration increased slightly

    • Damage increased substantially

    • Number of maximum affected targets by default is now 10

  • Lightning Rod

    • Cooldown is now 10 seconds

    • Stun duration increased to 18 seconds

    • Damage increased monumentally

  • Mana Bomb

    • Cooldown set to 10 seconds

    • Damage increased substantially

  • Flameburst

    • Damage increased slightly

    • Reduced the damage falloff so the AoE is more impactful

  • Flamethrower

    • Unchanged

  • Arcane Blockade

    • Health increased substantially


Thank you for the blockade health increase!

What is Magic Missile? Is that the Apprentice's main attack? Didn't know it had a cooldown.. also what the heck is Lightning Rod? Those 2 names sound like they're from DD1..  but maybe I'm missing something.

Have to say, the non-changes to the poor flame towers is very discouraging. Please rethink those? The flamethrower is my favorite.. it fries so nicely :D  

Edit: words

The flamethrower was the strongest of all the original towers by a significant margin, so they are just bringing the others up to it. I could do content way above what i should with it and other towers were just wastes of DU if a flamethrower could be used instead.  It may need tweaks but its not much, keep in mind that all of these are TEMPORARY CHANGES to help until they redo the original 4 chars anyway.   It will be nice to be able to mix towers up for each situation rather than trying to force the FT in some odd spot because its just so vastly superior to the rest. 

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@Borisblade quote:

The flamethrower was the strongest of all the original towers by a significant margin, so they are just bringing the others up to it. I could do content way above what i should with it and other towers were just wastes of DU if a flamethrower could be used instead.  It may need tweaks but its not much, keep in mind that all of these are TEMPORARY CHANGES to help until they redo the original 4 chars anyway.   It will be nice to be able to mix towers up for each situation rather than trying to force the FT in some odd spot because its just so vastly superior to the rest. 

Ah.. I always thought it was somewhat limited by its range. What about flame burst tower?

What I actually really wish is that we could buff their speed. That was so much fun in DD1.

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I'm a Big fan of the changes.  I mainly play solo these days, leveraging a full array of tower builds to construct defenses (Wall Squire, Buff Monk, Trap Huntress, Frosty Mage), and then DPS characters to play (Huntress & EV2).  I was unable to do a lot of the NM4 content before.   I'd just get slaughtered solo.  I didn't have the gear, and I couldn't farm for it outside of grinding NM4 Liferoot... which got old.  I'd largely given up on the game.  However, with these Hero Balance changes, I was finally able beat a few different NM4 maps.  So nice to do something other then grind Liferoot.  The game got fun again, and I found myself playing more.  Nice job identifying and fixing some of the balance issues.  Hope to see them in a patch soon.       

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can We all just agree that ballista is awful and it needs a speed buff? Just re balance the damage accordingly. again the reason why the Harpoon was so good in DD1 wasn't for its amazing Targeting AI(LOL!!!) it was because it could shoot fast enough to make up for missing. nerf splody if you have to but let us have 10/s Harpoon once more, please Trondy.

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Things would be easier if you just nerfed Abyss Lord 3 days after he came out. If I was game designer he wouldn't even come out in this state.

Now, few months later you plan totally flip the game upside down and remove actual and interesting features, but solve no old issues. The balance changes needed are only few numbers. And you should tweak them one by one, repeatedly. What you do right now, Trendy, is like throwing the puzzle box in the air, hoping to solve it.

The builds are great idea and there should be MORE builds coming, not less. If you make all towers and items exactly teh same, the game will be balanced, but will also be totally BORING. New strategies is what makes the game interesting and alive.

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@TMTrainer quote:

I think the only thing bad about passives is that some of them have RNG effects.

I like the design of, say, SA because strictly upgrades the Aura and provides, for all intents and purposes, a NEW tower for Monks to use. I love Frosty because it's also a direct upgrade. I'd love to see designs like this in the future (Sky tower?).

I hate the design of the LA Monk Staff, Archer Explosive Arrows and EV Photon Beam Crits because they have a CHANCE of working. I've actually lost a ton of NM4 Incursions because my EV Photon Beam doesn't crit a Kobold and they run into the crystal (My EV towers do 1k normal hits, 38k crits).

Sorry, I didn't mean all passives were bad! SA is a perfect example of one I love. I don't care to right an essay in this already flooded thread, but I just still find some of the passives to be the root of some very large problems imo. And I can definately agree that RNG chance for towers in a strategy game is kind of painful to me as well...


[[35013,users]]
Harpoons really need some attack speed love, but I think that much might be overkill lol

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@Warmonger quote:

Things would be easier if you just nerfed Abyss Lord 3 days after he came out. If I was game designer he wouldn't even come out in this state.

Now, few months later you plan totally flip the game upside down and remove actual and interesting features, but solve no old issues. The balance changes needed are only few numbers. And you should tweak them one by one, repeatedly. What you do right now, Trendy, is like throwing the puzzle box in the air, hoping to solve it.

The builds are great idea and there should be MORE builds coming, not less. If you make all towers and items exactly teh same, the game will be balanced, but will also be totally BORING. New strategies is what makes the game interesting and alive.

Yes, they should have nerfed Abyss Lord so that they can rebuff him later. Makes sense. Why do things efficiently when you can double your work?

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YAY!! My Tanky DPS Squire will be even tankier and more....UHHH....DPSer....uhhhh.....anyway....gonna love my Tanky DPS Squire even more!! 

Now I have even more reasons to use teleporting enemy dummies (not so squishy anymore) and meteor magic blockades! This will be fun!!

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Lightning Rod

  • Cooldown is now 10 seconds

  • Stun duration increased to 18 seconds

  • Damage increased monumentally
What is this lightning rod?

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To those asking about the reroll:  If that passive is removed, your current passive will be rerolled to a new passive. If that passive is remaining but is getting changed, the reroll will update your passive to the new system. My understanding is that the reroll will give you a random value than what you currently (either higher or lower). 

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Am I missing something here - if you remove/change those item passives, aren't most legendary armor items for a particular builder going to have a set list of passives on every drop?

Take a huntress builder legendary chest piece. In the current world, we have 4 huntress only passives (tripwire, volatile, explosive poison, phoenix call) and 1 generic passive (defense crit chance) that can roll there. But with explosive + phoenix getting removed, there are only 3 builder passives that can pop up on the chest piece for a huntress: trip+volatile+dcc. So all legendary huntress chest pieces will have the same passives. (Yes I am ignoring Jackpot since it is rare and honestly is stupid in a builder character and should be DPS only)

Right now we are stuck where there really is only 1 set of passives that help out a particular tower, so for the most part everyone building said tower is going for the exact same passives. But instead of adding more passives that allow making different builds for the same tower (ie give me more Poison Tower passives so I can choose between faster DPS or longer duration poison or longer range or additional effects or etc), we are going with the Handicapper General approach and just making them all the same.

Why? And is this definitely happening next week? Cause I imagine once you change the gear, it is done and no way to change it back. This is essentially a pretty big gear adjustment, and not sure it is worth fixing it before primary char sphere changes as that may change things again. 

I love the new map and the new weapon is fun and looking forward to the game browser, but really not sure on this change or the new quest system either.









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@iamisom quote:

To those asking about the reroll:  If that passive is removed, your current passive will be rerolled to a new passive. If that passive is remaining but is getting changed, the reroll will update your passive to the new system. My understanding is that the reroll will give you a random value than what you currently (either higher or lower). 

Will you be changing the harbinger weapons? Right now the arcane wall and target dummy both require the harbinger weapons to be useful due to the HP scaling passive. Are you removing that part to make them useful without those weapons ? Otherwise could you please fix Harbinger RNG ? Its like 4x RNG and pretty much kills any casual who would like to use those walls. (easy fix would be to drop weapon based on active hero and align stats with passive dropped(dp/dh/dpd rolls with builder passive etc ))

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@Pegazul quote:

Will you be changing the harbinger weapons? Right now the arcane wall and target dummy both require the harbinger weapons to be useful due to the HP scaling passive. Are you removing that part to make them useful without those weapons ? Otherwise could you please fix Harbinger RNG ? Its like 4x RNG and pretty much kills any casual who would like to use those walls. (easy fix would be to drop weapon based on active hero and align stats with passive dropped(dp/dh/dpd rolls with builder passive etc ))

Harbinger RNG:  We're spreading out the Harbinger weapons to different maps so it'll be much easier to get the weapon you want. :)

Defenses and Harbinger Passives:  Yes, the health of those defenses is being buffed to make them useful without the weapons, and as a result, the health buff is being removed from the passive. So those defenses should just be good by default and not require that passive in order to be good. 

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@iamisom quote:


@Pegazul quote:

Will you be changing the harbinger weapons? Right now the arcane wall and target dummy both require the harbinger weapons to be useful due to the HP scaling passive. Are you removing that part to make them useful without those weapons ? Otherwise could you please fix Harbinger RNG ? Its like 4x RNG and pretty much kills any casual who would like to use those walls. (easy fix would be to drop weapon based on active hero and align stats with passive dropped(dp/dh/dpd rolls with builder passive etc ))

Harbinger RNG:  We're spreading out the Harbinger weapons to different maps so it'll be much easier to get the weapon you want. :)

Defenses and Harbinger Passives:  Yes, the health of those defenses is being buffed to make them useful without the weapons, and as a result, the health buff is being removed from the passive. So those defenses should just be good by default and not require that passive in order to be good. 

Thanks :). I guess that solves all of the harbinger problems in 1 swoop hehe. Looking forward to the patch.

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Removing the buff to health from harbinger weapons.... And spreading them to other maps? Why should anyone play harbinger again?

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@Zkurcrow quote:

Removing the buff to health from harbinger weapons.... And spreading them to other maps? Why should anyone play harbinger again?

That's what I thought... Maybe Harbringer will drop 1 of the weapons, but who knows. Also a little birdy told me that the harbringer sword drops on the dead road map in the newest update.

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Yeah, seems odd the harbinger weapons will now be on random maps. It would have made more sense for the weapon drops to be weighted in favor of the hero your playing when harbinger dies. Unless you have something special planned for harbinger and your just not telling us yet.

Are betsy weapons also being moved?

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iamisom for the love all that is holy, PLEASE, please do not have my passives (Karma vortex,etc) reroll to something stupid like jackpot for my builders. Atleast give it some builder passives.


Also, are you aware guys, that according to iamisom's quote about the rerolling of passives. Theyre going to give you a random number/% for your passives. So your chilling touch with 100ff & 19% snowstorm that youre proud of so dearly is going to get a random number in place of your frost fire that could roll to possibly 10 frosty power(lowest) even though you had a maxed out frost fire...

This goes for anything as well, your 25% hearty blockade totem with 16% automation & 742IPWR. irrelevant, update hits & that totem has a good chance to be crap.


Although I may seem upset about it, I'm actually quite okay with it. Gets rid of the 700ipwr carnival gear that was so easy to get ahold of. Just wonder how the community will take it.

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The following passives only need 1 item: hearty blockade, frosty power, serenity aura (explode i guess weapon and range, gloves), phoenix call and explosive poison. Does that mean traps and lightning aura (range and damage / speed) are still farm fests?


p.s. could we get an update on prospect of sphere changes in the future? i dont own all ubers but dont want to buy them if they are changed to large spheres.

This may of been covered elsewhere but i couldnt find anything.

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@Zkurcrow quote:

Removing the buff to health from harbinger weapons.... And spreading them to other maps? Why should anyone play harbinger again?

Another bad idea. You are dissolving every interesting feature this game has. If all the maps, towers and gear are equal, the game won't be better balanced. It will be boring.

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i thought that the archers were like 8 times stronger than the other classes towers. arn't these boost a bit low than because im realy hoop that i can build cannons again that are doing  a good amount of damage on nm4 inc. 


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