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iamisom

Upcoming Hero Balance Changes

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You want to kill all the builds and remove special abilities from armor? It just kills the game, entire gameplay is based on that!

...unless you still want players to spam archers all around the map mindlessly.

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@Insanity Geo quote:


@Kumasan quote:


@nah quote:


@Kumasan quote:

Big move Trendy. Hope it doesn't cause too many new balance issues. At least you guys are willing to take risks.

Btw, never heard of Hearty Harpoon

What's a harpoon?

I think its the Ballista

harpoon is what you call ballista but in dd1

 Yeah, I loved harpoons in DD1. 

Funny, never noticed squire had ballista in DD2 until you guys brought it up. 

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@iamisom quote:

Cannonball Tower

Damage increased by about 40%

Heavy Cannonball Tower

Damage increased by about 200%

Reduced projectile movement speed but DON’T WORRY damage more than makes up for it

Flameburst

Damage increased slightly

Reduced the damage falloff so the AoE is more impactful

Flamethrower

Unchanged

Lightning Aura

Damage doubled

Lightning Strikes Aura

Damage increased

Proximity Mine

Damage increased by 35%

Elemental Chaos

Damage increased by nearly 4 times


Iamisom

Please remember the Squire, Apprentice and Monk all paid good tokens\medals for their ubers too not just the huntress.

So Chaos Traps get 400% buff, even when they were useful, and garbage ubers like LSA and HCB get comparatively little from a much much worse position. Flamethrower gets nothing.

This isn't balance this is shifting meta.

No-one in their right mind will use LSA, HCB or Flamethrowers now unless they are buffed equally.

LSA should have had its damage at least tripled similar to Chaos trap.

HCB should have been given a five or six times buff, and the speed should never have been nerfed the lack of air cover and small cone of attack already hamper it.

Flamethrower was almost viable but to now leave it as was when all around it gets buffed is crazy,

Please rethink these three ubers and make them uber not garbage.

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Can I get some clarification from a dev or someone who has gone through a gear wipe on what "requires reroll" actually means? I was not around for any major gear changes because I refused to play with character and gear wipes as that is a waste of time. Apparently I was misinformed that those sorts of things would no longer happen as this sounds a whole lot like a gear wipe to me.

 Will our existing equipment be randomly rerolled? If so what gets rerolled? Will knights gear still be knights gear just with different passives or will the entire item including ipwr be rerolled?

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I haven't been paying much attention to many updates, so I don't know the reasoning behind removing level requirements for towers and abilities.  However, I think that this is a bad idea.

When you first start out with only one tower, you get the opportunity to really learn the strengths and weaknesses of that one tower well.  As well, you get to look forward to unlocking other towers, wondering what they'll do, giving you an incentive to level up.

If you remove the level requirements, suddenly right off the bat you get a whole bunch of towers and abilities that you've never used before, and you just use what you think will be good, never getting a chance to experiment with different combos.

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Trendy, you are going down a dangerous road.  This patch is all about consolidating entire builds onto single items, eliminating the need to farm for more than 1 piece of gear.  This may look like “eliminating frustration” to you, but it’s really just “removing any reason to play the game”.  Farming for gear is the only thing you do once you are level 50 and passives are the major item feature we farm for.  If all we have to do to make a builder is find some defense power gear, we’ll be done with the game in 3 maps, and when a new character comes out we’ll slap some generic gear from our inventory on them and be done before we’ve even played them.

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@Furied quote:

Trendy, you are going down a dangerous road.  This patch is all about consolidating entire builds onto single items, eliminating the need to farm for more than 1 piece of gear.  This may look like “eliminating frustration” to you, but it’s really just “removing any reason to play the game”.  Farming for gear is the only thing you do once you are level 50 and passives are the major item feature we farm for.  If all we have to do to make a builder is find some defense power gear, we’ll be done with the game in 3 maps, and when a new character comes out we’ll slap some generic gear from our inventory on them and be done before we’ve even played them.

Passives are currently what causes a lot of unhealthy strategic interactions (Take the AOE archer passive that removes any need for anything else). This change is intended as a temporary fix as I understand it. From what the devs have said, they seem to have plans on trying to make a serious overhall to the gear system.

You are correct tho, that this will likely create a situation where gear will be largely irelivent to farm, but considering that A) its alpha, so lets break it while we can haha, and B) Most people were already getting to the point of not having any reason to play anyway.

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@xArcAngel quote:
@Furied quote:

Trendy, you are going down a dangerous road.  This patch is all about consolidating entire builds onto single items, eliminating the need to farm for more than 1 piece of gear.  This may look like “eliminating frustration” to you, but it’s really just “removing any reason to play the game”.  Farming for gear is the only thing you do once you are level 50 and passives are the major item feature we farm for.  If all we have to do to make a builder is find some defense power gear, we’ll be done with the game in 3 maps, and when a new character comes out we’ll slap some generic gear from our inventory on them and be done before we’ve even played them.

Passives are currently what causes a lot of unhealthy strategic interactions (Take the AOE archer passive that removes any need for anything else). This change is intended as a temporary fix as I understand it. From what the devs have said, they seem to have plans on trying to make a serious overhall to the gear system.

You are correct tho, that this will likely create a situation where gear will be largely irelivent to farm, but considering that A) its alpha, so lets break it while we can haha, and B) Most people were already getting to the point of not having any reason to play anyway.

I think the only thing bad about passives is that some of them have RNG effects.

I like the design of, say, SA because strictly upgrades the Aura and provides, for all intents and purposes, a NEW tower for Monks to use. I love Frosty because it's also a direct upgrade. I'd love to see designs like this in the future (Sky tower?).

I hate the design of the LA Monk Staff, Archer Explosive Arrows and EV Photon Beam Crits because they have a CHANCE of working. I've actually lost a ton of NM4 Incursions because my EV Photon Beam doesn't crit a Kobold and they run into the crystal (My EV towers do 1k normal hits, 38k crits).

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@Fozzie quote:[...]

Please remember the Squire, Apprentice and Monk all paid good tokens\medals for their ubers too not just the huntress.

[...]

Please rethink these three ubers and make them uber not garbage.

Exactly like this... I bought the LSA uber, tested it out and never used it again. HCB: same fate. Not uber, but garbage.

@Furied quote:

[...]

This patch is all about consolidating entire builds onto single items, eliminating the need to farm for more than 1 piece of gear.  This may look like “eliminating frustration” to you, but it’s really just “removing any reason to play the game”.

[...]

If all we have to do to make a builder is find some defense power gear, we’ll be done with the game in 3 maps, and when a new character comes out we’ll slap some generic gear from our inventory on them and be done before we’ve even played them.

I could not have worded this better, the fun or interesting part currently is farming with friends and hoping for that one item where iPWR, stats and passives just match up

@xArcAngel quote: 

[...]

This change is intended as a temporary fix as I understand it.

[...]

I hope this isn't as "temporary" as the removal of lane resistances which probably would've prevented the Archer spam from being an effective build strategy.

Adding the "Calling all Heroes" Patch onto the removed resistances made the game too easy in my opinion... The fun about NM4 used to be barely making it through the map with 4 well-equipped builders and a lot of thought. Now i mindlessly farm Bling King or Bastille with a friend - playing duo and keeping builder chars active. Still fun, but a lot less than before.


And why nerf the Serenity Auras? Purge Evil is about AOE and Range increases perfectly match this - why remove the possibility to get these auras to a size where they become really useful?


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Regardless of the unexpected bugs happening left and right, I still want to thank you guys for fixing some of the bugs from before.  My lightning aura feels much better than before and I can finally clear content safely.


Unfortunately, you guys fixed the bug where the wyverns kept getting stuck on Bazaar.  I was farming that map for the past few days.  LOL.

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@Nhon quote:

Regardless of the unexpected bugs happening left and right, I still want to thank you guys for fixing some of the bugs from before.  My lightning aura feels much better than before and I can finally clear content safely.


Unfortunately, you guys fixed the bug where the wyverns kept getting stuck on Bazaar.  I was farming that map for the past few days.  LOL.

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but they plan on reverting these changes to LA and even the squire wall until the next patch. Now this is from how I read their post, I could be wrong, but I cant see another way of interpreting the post.
For me, as I play exclusively Monk builder + squire waller, it will be back to failing solo nm4 catacombs because 1 mob got past my barricade after a build up due to LA's tickling the monsters rather then killing them. Oh and full on failing solo NM4 bling king (I have 1 win on record with nerfed LA's) and Bastille will be completely impossible.

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@Zimmermann quote:

[...]

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but they plan on reverting these changes until the next patch. Now this is from how I read their post, I could be wrong, but I cant see another way of interpreting the post.
Back to failing solo nm4 catacombs because 1 mob got past my barricade after a build up due to LA's tickling the monsters rather then killing them. Oh and full on failing solo NM4 bling king (I have 1 win on record with nerfed LA's) and Bastille will be completely impossible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but failing NM4 solo should not be worthy of mentioning... The main feature of NM4 as I remember was players being slightly underpowered... I think possible solo/duo builds on Bastille and Bling King should not exist... (Not that i'm not doing them, but that doesn't mean it should be possible)

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@r0_0t quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

[...]

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but they plan on reverting these changes until the next patch. Now this is from how I read their post, I could be wrong, but I cant see another way of interpreting the post.
Back to failing solo nm4 catacombs because 1 mob got past my barricade after a build up due to LA's tickling the monsters rather then killing them. Oh and full on failing solo NM4 bling king (I have 1 win on record with nerfed LA's) and Bastille will be completely impossible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but failing NM4 solo should not be worthy of mentioning... The main feature of NM4 as I remember was players being slightly underpowered... I think possible solo/duo builds on Bastille and Bling King should not exist... (Not that i'm not doing them, but that doesn't mean it should be possible)

ofc it should be, this is not an exclusively multiplayer game. On top of that, the game developers are attempting to balance for solo and multiplayer as well as the increments between 2 and 4 players.
Incursion (though I thought this in the past) is not "a multiplayer option" it is simply a harder mode, to be progressed through either solo or in a group of varying sizes.
This is my opinion however, though it really seems that way to be that of the Dev's too as why else would they balance monster damage/health and numbers this way otherwise?

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@Zimmermann quote:

[...]

ofc it should be, this is not an exclusively multiplayer game. On top of that, the game developers are attempting to balance for solo and multiplayer as well as the increments between 2 and 4 players.
Incursion (though I thought this in the past) is not "a multiplayer option" it is simply a harder mode, to be progressed through either solo or in a group of varying sizes.
This is my opinion however, though it really seems that way to be that of the Dev's too as why else would they balance monster damage/health and numbers this way otherwise?

It IS exclusively online though - and if you pay attention to it you'll notice that the Bling King is the only Incursion that scales how many lanes spawn significant enemies depending on the number of players. Every other incursion will always have the same amounts of lanes with "lots" of enemies.

For the normal maps: Of course you'll need to get into the game, maybe on your own - but the game also has a strong focus on social elements - Tavern, Hub - and is meant to be played in groups, even with people you don't know (yet?). Get in a hub, talk to some people, find someone to play with and play some NM4 or just get stuck somewhere on the way to NM4 as the difficulty rises to a point close to "impossible". That is the impression i got in the game and the game I think the devs want it to be played.

In short: Start off alone, find some other players and win. (Or have your whole team determined before you start as an alternative).

NM4 should be the culmination of difficulty. Near impossible. Nothing you want to do alone. A NIGHTMARE.

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@r0_0t quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

[...]

ofc it should be, this is not an exclusively multiplayer game. On top of that, the game developers are attempting to balance for solo and multiplayer as well as the increments between 2 and 4 players.
Incursion (though I thought this in the past) is not "a multiplayer option" it is simply a harder mode, to be progressed through either solo or in a group of varying sizes.
This is my opinion however, though it really seems that way to be that of the Dev's too as why else would they balance monster damage/health and numbers this way otherwise?

It IS exclusively online though - and if you pay attention to it you'll notice that the Bling King is the only Incursion that scales how many lanes spawn significant enemies depending on the number of players. Every other incursion will always have the same amounts of lanes with "lots" of enemies.

For the normal maps: Of course you'll need to get into the game, maybe on your own - but the game also has a strong focus on social elements - Tavern, Hub - and is meant to be played in groups, even with people you don't know (yet?). Get in a hub, talk to some people, find someone to play with and play some NM4 or just get stuck somewhere on the way to NM4 as the difficulty rises to a point close to "impossible". That is the impression i got in the game and the game I think the devs want it to be played.

In short: Start off alone, find some other players and win. (Or have your whole team determined before you start as an alternative).

NM4 should be the culmination of difficulty. Near impossible. Nothing you want to do alone. A NIGHTMARE.

I completely disagree with that assumption, I think solo and group play should offer end game challenges, and as it stands Trendy are not explicitly saying multiplayer is end game, solo play is beginner. But we can agree to disagree :)

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@r0_0t quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

[...]

ofc it should be, this is not an exclusively multiplayer game. On top of that, the game developers are attempting to balance for solo and multiplayer as well as the increments between 2 and 4 players.
Incursion (though I thought this in the past) is not "a multiplayer option" it is simply a harder mode, to be progressed through either solo or in a group of varying sizes.
This is my opinion however, though it really seems that way to be that of the Dev's too as why else would they balance monster damage/health and numbers this way otherwise?

It IS exclusively online though - and if you pay attention to it you'll notice that the Bling King is the only Incursion that scales how many lanes spawn significant enemies depending on the number of players. Every other incursion will always have the same amounts of lanes with "lots" of enemies.

For the normal maps: Of course you'll need to get into the game, maybe on your own - but the game also has a strong focus on social elements - Tavern, Hub - and is meant to be played in groups, even with people you don't know (yet?). Get in a hub, talk to some people, find someone to play with and play some NM4 or just get stuck somewhere on the way to NM4 as the difficulty rises to a point close to "impossible". That is the impression i got in the game and the game I think the devs want it to be played.

In short: Start off alone, find some other players and win. (Or have your whole team determined before you start as an alternative).

NM4 should be the culmination of difficulty. Near impossible. Nothing you want to do alone. A NIGHTMARE.

Uh.. Spectral Knight scales with players as well. There will just be one big lane with one player.

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Okay I read through each and every comment. I don't understand how someone didn't notice this.

Serenity Aura Range

  • No longer appears on Helms, Gloves, or Chests, only appears on Gloves

  • Values for gloves adjusted accordingly

    How can it "No longer appears on Gloves" Yet "Only appears on Gloves"?

    Was it mean to appear on them or not? If not which was it actually supposed to appear on?

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@Zimmermann quote:


[...]

I completely disagree with that assumption, I think solo and group play should offer end game challenges, and as it stands Trendy are not explicitly saying multiplayer is end game, solo play is beginner. But we can agree to disagree :)

Well, I liked it when you had to think about the build for some minutes and decide who's gonna play DPS Huntress and who's gonna play DPS Mage.

But yeah, we obviously disagree.


@Soulstiger quote:


[...]

Uh.. Spectral Knight scales with players as well. There will just be one big lane with one player.

Well, didn't notice that, but still only two incursions out of the lot do that. And a difficulty called "Nightmare" as endgame content that I can play most maps of without much effort isn't worth that name in my opinion.

The fact that Incursions don't scale with playercount was only one point to show [[150185,users]] that you can also read signs in the game towards promoting Multiplayer, not about me thinking that NM4 should be a nightmare.

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@r0_0t quote:


@Zimmermann quote:


[...]

I completely disagree with that assumption, I think solo and group play should offer end game challenges, and as it stands Trendy are not explicitly saying multiplayer is end game, solo play is beginner. But we can agree to disagree :)

Well, I liked it when you had to think about the build for some minutes and decide who's gonna play DPS Huntress and who's gonna play DPS Mage.

But yeah, we obviously disagree.


@Soulstiger quote:


[...]

Uh.. Spectral Knight scales with players as well. There will just be one big lane with one player.

Well, didn't notice that, but still only two incursions out of the lot do that. And a difficulty called "Nightmare" as endgame content that I can play most maps of without much effort isn't worth that name in my opinion.

The fact that Incursions don't scale with playercount was only one point to show Zimmermann that you can also read signs in the game towards promoting Multiplayer, not about me thinking that NM4 should be a nightmare.

I haven't checked other maps, but I'm pretty sure they all scale like that. At the very least the numbers themselves scale based on the number of players.

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@Soulstiger quote:


[...]

I haven't checked other maps, but I'm pretty sure they all scale like that. At the very least the numbers themselves scale based on the number of players.

Well, the number of trashes might rise a bit, but they die in the defenses anyways. The amount of special enemies on the other hand stays exactly the same.

but I guess we're getting off topic ;-)

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@iamisom quote:

Apprentice

  • All Towers and Abilities now unlock at level 1

  • Magic Missile

    • Increased the max number of default marked targets to 8

    • Damage increased substantially

    • Cooldown removed

    • Mana cost reduced to 25

  • Tornado

    • Reduced cooldown to about 2 seconds

    • Knockup duration increased slightly

    • Damage increased substantially

    • Number of maximum affected targets by default is now 10

  • Lightning Rod

    • Cooldown is now 10 seconds

    • Stun duration increased to 18 seconds

    • Damage increased monumentally

  • Mana Bomb

    • Cooldown set to 10 seconds

    • Damage increased substantially

  • Flameburst

    • Damage increased slightly

    • Reduced the damage falloff so the AoE is more impactful

  • Flamethrower

    • Unchanged

  • Arcane Blockade

    • Health increased substantially


Thank you for the blockade health increase!

What is Magic Missile? Is that the Apprentice's main attack? Didn't know it had a cooldown.. also what the heck is Lightning Rod? Those 2 names sound like they're from DD1..  but maybe I'm missing something.

Have to say, the non-changes to the poor flame towers is very discouraging. Please rethink those? The flamethrower is my favorite.. it fries so nicely :D  

Edit: words

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