Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Fozzie

Item Reroll System

Recommended Posts

So we have all had that legendary drop with either great stat and bad passives or vice versa.

We have a working stats reroll system for pets, which works Ok, apart from the duplicate stat issue.

So @Trendy if we are to be keeping the passive system for item drops please introduce a method of rerolling stats and passives.

Example I have a legendary pair of gloves drop for my Abyss Lord with 330 base stats and 10% Archer passive, great but the stats are Hero damage Hero crit (just so you know that is an FU rage quit drop)

So in the new reroll nirvana I say Ok it will cost me some medals but off to the Crafter NPC and I check the Builder checkbox and select reroll on each stat in turn.

As I checked builder it can only roll DP, DCrit and DH.

After expending a few medals I then have the gloves I want and off to the enchanter to level them up.

Happy Defender, exactly, as I will then be off to try them out on another map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not behind this idea, unless they choose to keep the passives we have now as well as the Armor bonus to a set and you are only limited to reroll one passive.

Instead Trendy need to get their *** together and have loot roll intelligently for the new Hero's just like the original 4 have.

Tell me WTF am I doing to do with a Hero crit, Hero Health piece for the Abyss Lord?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can play AL as a DPS character, which I do, but having mixed hero stats with builder passives is very annoying, hence the reroll idea.

If the reroll only rerolled the stat type and kept the stat value, you would still need to farm for the top tier item but it would stop the immense annoyance of getting bad stats with good passives or vice versa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could work, it all depends on how Trendy is taking the armor system in the future.

Until we know that we are only guessing, but you shouldn't be guaranteed a passive either. It should still roll the other Passives as well, but still have a chance to be the one you want.

You still need some RNG element to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is you need something to keep you coming back, which in grindy games is the chance of improvement.

Right now for well geared players that is so low it is not fun. They improved things with the new incursions in that you are guaranteed a legendary chest. They did this in DD1 you were guaranteed an obsidian drop on Akatiti, would you have farmed Akatiti if it wasn't guaranteed.

Just did a gates run and got an FU Epic chest, all these little niggles just add up to people switching to something that rewards not punishes you for your time.

Games are supposed to be fun, DD2 currently seems to have a sadistic streak, I'm no masochist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

The thing is you need something to keep you coming back, which in grindy games is the chance of improvement.

Right now for well geared players that is so low it is not fun. They improved things with the new incursions in that you are guaranteed a legendary chest. They did this in DD1 you were guaranteed an obsidian drop on Akatiti, would you have farmed Akatiti if it wasn't guaranteed.

Just did a gates run and got an FU Epic chest, all these little niggles just add up to people switching to something that rewards not punishes you for your time.

Games are supposed to be fun, DD2 currently seems to have a sadistic streak, I'm no masochist.

Ah titti Jungle, how I miss thee.

Monkey's a plenty there, good times.

Gearing up in this game is incredibly easy. You shouldn't be running Gates for gear.

Onslaught is far superior and easier. Just get to round 7 and every round after that has ipwr 690-700 drops.

From there run Incursions that drop 750 ipwr gear. So gear isn't the issue, it's the stupid ass rolls the new characters are having. Loot V2.0 doesn't apply to them and it's quite evident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, on my EV I have HP + DP so I can use the blaster to shoot and put down boosts as well. Since there are no boost passives, I look for hero damage passives.

This is the only hero for which this works (for me anyway), all the others are dedicated to a single purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol reminds me of a post I wanted to make For people to share there wtf gear, like my first 750 Chest with 25% hearty, DP and DCD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Fozzie quote:

So @Trendy if we are to be keeping the passive system for item drops please introduce a method of rerolling stats and passives.

Actually, this is something we really want to do. Active conversations about this very thing are happening now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@iamisom quote:


@Fozzie quote:

So @Trendy if we are to be keeping the passive system for item drops please introduce a method of rerolling stats and passives.

Actually, this is something we really want to do. Active conversations about this very thing are happening now.

One thing that keeps me coming back for more, is upgrading my gear to 43/43. I love it!
Adding more such features would be fantastic! however it needs to create more game play rather then reducing it. So, a feature that allows you to turn a peace of crap item into best in slot with 1 button is terrible.
However, adding a feature that allows you to perfect existing stats with a small grind, or changing a stat completely with a big grind would be awesome.

example:

an item with Def power and Def health to be rerolled to Def power + Def crit would require a big grind, maybe an expensive "reroll mat" that requires 300k+ gold or 1k+ medals would be great.

While perfecting existing stats could be exclusively to passives. like turning Amped up 1% to amped up 3%.
So one could choose 1 out of the 3 passives to perfect, this could be possible with some kind of chance to roll upgrade system using legendary items, much like the wheel.

I like the idea of using legendaries I find for upgrading, and not just simply gold/medals.

My only worry is ending up with Best in Slot inside a week, and having nothing else to do. 

My 2 pence on the subject.


Also, buff monk builders already!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Dewkin quote:


@Zkurcrow quote:

Lol reminds me of a post I wanted to make For people to share there wtf gear, like my first 750 Chest with 25% hearty, DP and DCD

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=704532157      ;)


 I think our armor pieces were meant for each other.

lmao thats hilarious, ok i thought the joke was just on me! Saving for the reroll?! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This would break the game tbh if not implemented correctly. its already stupidly easy to get gear as is compared to what it was like in DD1. If they were to implement this it would have to have an insane cost and a crazy material cost to reforge a piece of high tier gear. 1mil, and 4 legendary tier materials is a good start for end game costs.


Implement new crafting materials that drop from bosses and end of match chests with grades and make legendary grade materials have a very low drop rate of 1-5% but give each item that drops a chance to be a legendary crafting material. 

So say a boss/chest drops 5-8 items, that would be 5-8 chances for a 1% material to drop. Also make each material for legendaries have a tier for it to be bound to each Nightmare difficulty. So a material With Tier 1 would drop from NM1 and would only work on gear dropped from NM1 and below, Tier 2 would drop from NM2, so on and so forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Arcflare quote:

This would break the game tbh if not implemented correctly. its already stupidly easy to get gear as is compared to what it was like in DD1. If they were to implement this it would have to have an insane cost and a crazy material cost to reforge a piece of high tier gear. 1mil, and 4 legendary tier materials is a good start for end game costs.


Implement new crafting materials that drop from bosses and end of match chests with grades and make legendary grade materials have a very low drop rate of 1-5% but give each item that drops a chance to be a legendary crafting material. 

So say a boss/chest drops 5-8 items, that would be 5-8 chances for a 1% material to drop. Also make each material for legendaries have a tier for it to be bound to each Nightmare difficulty. So a material With Tier 1 would drop from NM1 and would only work on gear dropped from NM1 and below, Tier 2 would drop from NM2, so on and so forth.

No one would spend 1m gold to re-roll a stat or passive on a piece of gear. Not many people also have any where close to 1m gold, most likely around the 100-200k range. If gold was easier to get I would say sure, but since jackpot doesn't stack as it should, there is no easy way to farm gold, even with a squire using all jackpot items.  Simply the fact that it is easy to complete end game maps currently for gear is reason not to waste that gold only to have that money go straight into the trash with nothing in return, because what are the chances the stat will actually improve, it could just as easily get worse and even make it more difficult to complete maps. Upgrading items is already expensive enough, let alone trying to re-roll stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@dwrowla quote:


@Arcflare quote:

This would break the game tbh if not implemented correctly. its already stupidly easy to get gear as is compared to what it was like in DD1. If they were to implement this it would have to have an insane cost and a crazy material cost to reforge a piece of high tier gear. 1mil, and 4 legendary tier materials is a good start for end game costs.


Implement new crafting materials that drop from bosses and end of match chests with grades and make legendary grade materials have a very low drop rate of 1-5% but give each item that drops a chance to be a legendary crafting material. 

So say a boss/chest drops 5-8 items, that would be 5-8 chances for a 1% material to drop. Also make each material for legendaries have a tier for it to be bound to each Nightmare difficulty. So a material With Tier 1 would drop from NM1 and would only work on gear dropped from NM1 and below, Tier 2 would drop from NM2, so on and so forth.

No one would spend 1m gold to re-roll a stat or passive on a piece of gear. Not many people also have any where close to 1m gold, most likely around the 100-200k range. If gold was easier to get I would say sure, but since jackpot doesn't stack as it should, there is no easy way to farm gold, even with a squire using all jackpot items.  Simply the fact that it is easy to complete end game maps currently for gear is reason not to waste that gold only to have that money go straight into the trash with nothing in return, because what are the chances the stat will actually improve, it could just as easily get worse and even make it more difficult to complete maps. Upgrading items is already expensive enough, let alone trying to re-roll stats.

Nothing in my post was concrete but just baselines to start at. The reason i said 1mil was because i remember reading a few months ago that people who were at endgame already had millions saved up and nothing to do with the gold outside of upgrading stuff but upgrading stuff in general is/was a waste past a certain point because the benefit didnt make sense for the gold/level. The problem with a system like this in a game like DD2 is if its not made correctly then youll max out without even really doing much. 

In DD1 it would have  made sense to make a system like this because of how hard and how long it took to get gear at endgame. But atm DD2 isnt remotely close to the grind that DD1 was but hopefully that changes in the future so a system like re-rolling stats makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I strongly disagree with this idea.

As an "end game" player the ONLY thing that keeps me playing everyday and coming back for more is the loot grind. Yes I get a lot of random crap rolls same as you, but I certainly wouldn't want the loot grind to be easier than it already is.

I think it would feel different if there was some challenging maps or game types, but as of right now the game is very easy and the only form of challenge is finding the perfect rolled gear. The desire for the 1% better stats, or higher damage.

I have played hundreds of hours since the last gear wipe and the only reason I played as much as I do, is because of the way the loot system is.  If I could change one of the stats/values on my items, I would have been geared up a few hundred hours ago, and chances are I would already have been bored and moved to a different game.

Yes I play a lot, yes it takes a long time, but I have been able to gear up with all of the desired stats the way that it is now.

Please don't make anything about this game easier than it already is.

EDIT: or add some Challenging content! Until there is some other form of Goal/Challenge for end game players, this can't be changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@BarefootNate quote:

I strongly disagree with this idea.

As an "end game" player the ONLY thing that keeps me playing everyday and coming back for more is the loot grind. Yes I get a lot of random crap rolls same as you, but I certainly wouldn't want the loot grind to be easier than it already is.

I think it would feel different if there was some challenging maps or game types, but as of right now the game is very easy and the only form of challenge is finding the perfect rolled gear. The desire for the 1% better stats, or higher damage.

I have played hundreds of hours since the last gear wipe and the only reason I played as much as I do, is because of the way the loot system is.  If I could change one of the stats/values on my items, I would have been geared up a few hundred hours ago, and chances are I would already have been bored and moved to a different game.

Yes I play a lot, yes it takes a long time, but I have been able to gear up with all of the desired stats the way that it is now.

Please don't make anything about this game easier than it already is.

EDIT: or add some Challenging content! Until there is some other form of Goal/Challenge for end game players, this can't be changed.

As an end game player with hundreds of hours into the game, I disagree with you lol.

I agree with you on the point that more challenging content is always good, however, what keeps me coming back and playing for hours is trying out all kinds of new builds. I am an alt aholic and I love to make new characters and builds, and the current system is VERY bad for trying out new builds because of how difficult it is to find the specific pieces of gear needed for the build. I think the problem with the content right now isn't that it is too easy, or that giving us the ability to reroll stats and farm for specific gear makes it easier or is bad. I think the key problem right now is that the builds are wildly out of balance. The reason the game is easy right now is because certain towers are very strong and the end game consists of grinding to get that 1% better gear on that one specific character for that one specific build.

That being said, I believe in Trendy's direction. I believe they are trying to balance out the classes a little better as well as make many builds more viable. Along the same path they are reworking the difficulty of the levels as their goal is an entirely new strategy system for enemies. Hand in hand with all of this, in my opinion, means that their goal and the ultimate end game for DD2 would mean that the classes are balanced, and the real way to see huge increases in power will be through finding interesting combinations between all of the classes. And different combinations will be strong against different types of enemies. So when the game looks like what I am imagining their goal to be, it will be much better for the game as a whole to be able to farm for specific passives and gear pieces to increase the power of builds vs different types of enemies.

As an example of what I am talking about, let's say your current build is really strong when their are hordes of enemies around who all trigger purge evil to explode on eachother and cause big damage spikes, along with archers to target down the big targets. Well in the future, if there are lanes that only have heavy targets it would be much more optimal to not use the DU for purge evil and perhaps use a frosty tower for the slowing effect to give your towers more time to kill the large targets. Well now you need to go farm for frosty gear, and in the current state of the game this would be rather difficult and there is not really a good way to focus on finding frosty gear. This is just one example off the top of my head, I'm sure the state of the game will change dramatically with the strategic revamp, but all I'm saying is I think they are on the right path to make the game way more fun than just a grind for a 1% increase in stats.

end /rant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@lunix57 quote:

As an end game player with hundreds of hours into the game, I disagree with you lol.

I agree with you on the point that more challenging content is always good, however, what keeps me coming back and playing for hours is trying out all kinds of new builds. I am an alt aholic and I love to make new characters and builds, and the current system is VERY bad for trying out new builds because of how difficult it is to find the specific pieces of gear needed for the build. I think the problem with the content right now isn't that it is too easy, or that giving us the ability to reroll stats and farm for specific gear makes it easier or is bad. I think the key problem right now is that the builds are wildly out of balance. The reason the game is easy right now is because certain towers are very strong and the end game consists of grinding to get that 1% better gear on that one specific character for that one specific build.

That being said, I believe in Trendy's direction. I believe they are trying to balance out the classes a little better as well as make many builds more viable. Along the same path they are reworking the difficulty of the levels as their goal is an entirely new strategy system for enemies. Hand in hand with all of this, in my opinion, means that their goal and the ultimate end game for DD2 would mean that the classes are balanced, and the real way to see huge increases in power will be through finding interesting combinations between all of the classes. And different combinations will be strong against different types of enemies. So when the game looks like what I am imagining their goal to be, it will be much better for the game as a whole to be able to farm for specific passives and gear pieces to increase the power of builds vs different types of enemies.

As an example of what I am talking about, let's say your current build is really strong when their are hordes of enemies around who all trigger purge evil to explode on eachother and cause big damage spikes, along with archers to target down the big targets. Well in the future, if there are lanes that only have heavy targets it would be much more optimal to not use the DU for purge evil and perhaps use a frosty tower for the slowing effect to give your towers more time to kill the large targets. Well now you need to go farm for frosty gear, and in the current state of the game this would be rather difficult and there is not really a good way to focus on finding frosty gear. This is just one example off the top of my head, I'm sure the state of the game will change dramatically with the strategic revamp, but all I'm saying is I think they are on the right path to make the game way more fun than just a grind for a 1% increase in stats.

end /rant

With the upcoming update they are consolidating passives for entire builds onto a single item. This means that my characters will only need 1 item to do an entire build and every other piece can literally be any item with the 2 main stats I need. This is going to significantly reduce replay-ability, and also make gearing any new character in the future extremely easy as you don't require anything other than a single item. Having the ability to re-roll stats in the future as well would make it to easy to make nearly perfect gear. Personally I am not a fan of the idea of consolidating passives onto a single item. If they add more single items that change how you use each character like Diablo 3 does with set items, sure maybe it could work, as we would be farming several different passives that hopefully would not stack with other passives that currently require entire sets of gear to make effective.


Simply making gear roll towards what the new classes will use would be better. Example hero damage and ability power roll together for AL and EV2, and defense health with anything roll together for AL, while Defense Power and Defense crit roll together for EV2. The likelihood of getting a hero damage related item mixed with defense tower stats is far too high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@dwrowla quote:


@lunix57 quote:



LOTS of snipping^

dwrowla Trendy is also most likely to introduce a set bonus system, similar to what you were saying with diablo 3 & their set armor bonus. Except, Trendy will likely go the route of what they did in DD1, where players would have to get a full armor set consisting all of one type, ie; "rogues supreme gauntlets/helm/chest/boots" For an overall base stat increase

I do agree with you that currently, with all passives being moved on to 1 piece of gear. Theyre catering more to casuals & the 'hardcore' players will get bored because of nothing else to farm for.

They aren't going to add a reroll system because of this. They can farm for gear simply for the stats & not have it be so limited by getting the absolute perfect passive rolls & stat rolls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Dewkin quote:


@dwrowla quote:


@lunix57 quote:



LOTS of snipping^

dwrowla Trendy is also most likely to introduce a set bonus system, similar to what you were saying with diablo 3 & their set armor bonus. Except, Trendy will likely go the route of what they did in DD1, where players would have to get a full armor set consisting all of one type, ie; "rogues supreme gauntlets/helm/chest/boots" For an overall base stat increase

I do agree with you that currently, with all passives being moved on to 1 piece of gear. Theyre catering more to casuals & the 'hardcore' players will get bored because of nothing else to farm for.

They aren't going to add a reroll system because of this. They can farm for gear simply for the stats & not have it be so limited by getting the absolute perfect passive rolls & stat rolls.

I guess I just have more faith in Trendy to properly cater to both groups than you do. I think it would be nice to streamline mechanics that feel cumbersome in favor of more streamlined mechanics. And yes it is still possible to keep the depth and replayability along with this. It would just come in a different form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no way to cater to hardcore and casual players at the same time. People who are good at map building and have strong characters will have no reason to play when they consolidate passives to 1 piece, and re roll our gear. I got plenty of 750 ipwr gear that I am not using because they don't have the stats I want. They are completely fixing this issue for me, which in turn gives me no reason to continue playing the game. I would not say I am truly hardcore as I only have 200 hours on DD2 on console, but all my characters are extremely good, 750+ ipwr if I decide to actually upgrade the gear I have. I am waiting on that since this update is coming in the future which might give me the option of swapping some of my gear around. Thanks to EV2 being my only viable dps character (I got a dps squire) I can now complete all the maps on NM4 difficulty.

Casual players will now be able to catch up to NM4 even easier than it already was but leaving there no content for the hardcore players. The only thing we got right now is the ability to farm coins, which is not fun to begin with. Likewise because casual players are going to get to NM4 significantly faster, they too will also run out of things to do.

All I see in the near future is a decline in the player base, until the update that changes how enemy ai interact with one another which might make the game challenging again, and also be the reason EV2 and Summoner are so OP that this game is easy.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@dwrowla quote:

There is no way to cater to hardcore and casual players at the same time. People who are good at map building and have strong characters will have no reason to play when they consolidate passives to 1 piece, and re roll our gear. I got plenty of 750 ipwr gear that I am not using because they don't have the stats I want. They are completely fixing this issue for me, which in turn gives me no reason to continue playing the game. I would not say I am truly hardcore as I only have 200 hours on DD2 on console, but all my characters are extremely good, 750+ ipwr if I decide to actually upgrade the gear I have. I am waiting on that since this update is coming in the future which might give me the option of swapping some of my gear around. Thanks to EV2 being my only viable dps character (I got a dps squire) I can now complete all the maps on NM4 difficulty.

Casual players will now be able to catch up to NM4 even easier than it already was but leaving there no content for the hardcore players. The only thing we got right now is the ability to farm coins, which is not fun to begin with. Likewise because casual players are going to get to NM4 significantly faster, they too will also run out of things to do.

All I see in the near future is a decline in the player base, until the update that changes how enemy ai interact with one another which might make the game challenging again, and also be the reason EV2 and Summoner are so OP that this game is easy.

Very well said. 

This is exactly how I feel. It blows my mind they would make the gear even easier to farm. That is all I had to keep me playing and farming.

They are removing the only true challenge left in this game, and that is getting the perfect gear to drop.

Catering to the casuals will end up pushing the players that are more dedicated off to other games.

This game is in desperate need of some end game goals/challenges. Even more so after the incoming patch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same way I see it lunix57. 

The game should be about playing different characters and combinations because the game is fun to play, not hunting for a 1% gear increase. The players with that mindset will eventually find that 1% increase and then move on to another game because there is 'nothing left to do'. So catering to them would be a mistake imo.

Besides, with the trend of adding all the different variables to things like incursion weapons, there is plenty of 1% gear chasing for hardcores to do. So I dont see what the big deal is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...