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Zimmermann

Balance patch pushed back again

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It appeared the dev's are pushing back their "balance" or strategic revamp patch yet again in favour of selling us *Cough* i mean bring us new heroes.

How do you guys feel about this? Do you just want to buy the latest fun Hero or do you want to see an improvement to all existing heroes and possibly content that is challenging regardless of hero deck you make.

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I think the best thing they could bring in is that at NM level all mobs have the speedy attribute as their base speed and get faster as the difficulty increases.

All towers should attract agro so mobs target badly positioned towers, currently they just wander past archers shooting them right in the face.

Ogres should go back to throwing fireballs as in DD1 snot just doesn't do anything, at least the fireball could severely damage clustered towers.

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Who said they are "pushing back" their strategic revamp?

By my understanding, the stuff changing is pretty game changing. It isn't something they can just throw out the door, I expect it to take a lot of time, and I'm okay with waiting for it, to make sure it's right. 

They need to do this right, not half ass it. 

At least heroes gives us something new to do, and they'll inevitably roll another map out soon as well. I wouldn't expect to see the revamp for a little bit still.

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It was announced pushed back for sometime this summer.  Two differing testing teams openly talked to trendy on the matter and helped them decide what steps to take next with it.  Would you have rather it been delayed and not gotten anything this milestone?  Refer to last dev stream where Elliot drops a lot of bombs on what's coming to ready us for the revamp.

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People like to feel OP, so I say let them enjoy it while they can.

I'm not happy seeing the revamp being pushed back, so I hope it delivers. If it doesn't you can say goodbye to the hardcore fanbase, they will most certainly move on after this.

This game atm is definitely more geared towards the casual market as it stands and that's fine if that's soley your target audience. However Trendy also claim to be after the hardcore playerbase as well, but I simply see no evidence of this. 

The game is fun don't get me wrong, but challenging? Not even close.

The smart thing to do if you want to keep your hardcore audeince hooked would be to trickle little changes out and not keep them waiting for the whole revamp.

A simple thing like making death have a penalty and not being able to spawn until the wave is over would help immensely, especially if the loot has a higher chance to drop max ipwr. That way you have some sense of danger and create a risk vs reward system.

Just give your hardcore players some incentive to play your game. 

However this is entirely up to Trendy and sadly not one of us here can change their mind or vision for the game. I personally think it would be incredibly stupid to wait months until the revamp hits to fix the challenge issue of this game, but hey that's my opinion.

So as a hardcore player you have to either stay patient and make do with what you have atm or simply move on to some other game that fills that void for you.

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@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

However this is entirely up to Trendy and sadly not one of us here can change their mind or vision for the game.

Speak for yourself ;p

I do, if you have any clout over the matter then try to push the issue and give them a reminder that they do indeed have a hardcore audience out there and to never forget that.

Even make a poster of it which they can hang up on there wall and look at each day to remind them of that simple fact.

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Tbh, I think you need to stop moaning that the balance patch has been pushed back again, "boohoo!". How do you think us PS4 players feel that we haven't remotely got any of the revamp yet and none of the new heroes, oh and to not forget the maps too?  I think you should get on and play with EV2 and deal with it. 

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@BrandonVirdee quote:

Tbh, I think you need to stop moaning that the balance patch has been pushed backed again, "boohoo!". How do you think us PS4 players feel that we haven't remotely got any of the revamp yet and none of the new heroes, oh and to not forget the maps too?  I think you should get on and play with EV2 and deal with it. 

Are you talking to the OP or me?

Learn to quote.

If it's me I am a PS4 player so your point is mute. If it's OP then carry on I guess?

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

I do, if you have any clout over the matter then try to push the issue and give them a reminder that they do indeed have a hardcore audience out there and to never forget that.

Even make a poster of it which they can hang up on there wall and look at each day to remind them of that simple fact.

We don't need anyone to remind us that we have players on every part of the spectrum, casual, hardcore and everything in between. 

Watch the dev stream. The revamp was pushed back due to extensive and repeated player feedback. It's because it's the right thing to do. The aim is to do right by all the players, and the revamp will not be rushed out the door to just appease one type of player or the other.

It sucks because you want it now. We get that. I want it too! I'd rather wait and have it done right though. So did the folks that tested it, and we're listening and acting upon that.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@BrandonVirdee quote:

Tbh, I think you need to stop moaning that the balance patch has been pushed backed again, "boohoo!". How do you think us PS4 players feel that we haven't remotely got any of the revamp yet and none of the new heroes, oh and to not forget the maps too?  I think you should get on and play with EV2 and deal with it. 

Are you talking to the OP or me?

Learn to quote.

If it's me I am a PS4 player so your point is mute. If it's OP then carry on I guess?

sorry I didn't think I needed to quote it since I mentioned part of what he was saying in my post. Anyway I was talking to the OP not you, I know you are a PS4 player.

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@Dani quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

I do, if you have any clout over the matter then try to push the issue and give them a reminder that they do indeed have a hardcore audience out there and to never forget that.

Even make a poster of it which they can hang up on there wall and look at each day to remind them of that simple fact.

We don't need anyone to remind us that we have players on every part of the spectrum, casual, hardcore and everything in between. 

Watch the dev stream. The revamp was pushed back due to extensive and repeated player feedback. It's because it's the right thing to do. The aim is to do right by all the players, and the revamp will not be rushed out the door to just appease one type of player or the other.

It sucks because you want it now. We get that. I want it too! I'd rather wait and have it done right though. So did the folks that tested it, and we're listening and acting upon that.

I always watch the dev streams when I can and I know why the revamp was delayed. I'm all for it if it means a much better product at the end of it and I rather you guys take your time on it to have it done right the first time.

However while people are waiting, their's simply no reason not to do something as simple as the idea I have mentioned above, bring back DD1's hardcore mode pretty much.

Make death a thing again.

Create risk vs reward gameplay once again, that would easily satisfy mine and others thirst for a challenge while we wait.

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@Dani quote:

The revamp was pushed back due to extensive and repeated player feedback. It's because it's the right thing to do. The aim is to do right by all the players, and the revamp will not be rushed out the door to just appease one type of player or the other.

Thats great news, but when the dev team is churning out new heroes that are normally purchased, its hard to see where your incentive is to actually improve the original free heroes. 

This might seem a bit conspiratorial, but one has to think when the new heroes (that people purchase) have towers that are approximately 3 times as powerful mana for mana. I feel it undermines your authenticity at the very least.

But I am happy to wait on a strategic revamp if it will implement content that is challenging again, but it would be nice to know that heroes will be for the most part balanced, rather then new heroes always having 3 times the power.

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@Dani quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

I do, if you have any clout over the matter then try to push the issue and give them a reminder that they do indeed have a hardcore audience out there and to never forget that.

Even make a poster of it which they can hang up on there wall and look at each day to remind them of that simple fact.

We don't need anyone to remind us that we have players on every part of the spectrum, casual, hardcore and everything in between. 

Watch the dev stream. The revamp was pushed back due to extensive and repeated player feedback. It's because it's the right thing to do. The aim is to do right by all the players, and the revamp will not be rushed out the door to just appease one type of player or the other.

It sucks because you want it now. We get that. I want it too! I'd rather wait and have it done right though. So did the folks that tested it, and we're listening and acting upon that.

This is the first person let alone a developer that i can related to in the forms of "Wait and have it done right" Everyone is always like I WANT THIS I WANT THAT. I think it would be funny every now and then to see them attempt todo all of the stuff required to a big revamp such as the Strategic revamp

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

However while people are waiting, their's simply no reason not to do something as simple as the idea I have mentioned above, bring back DD1's hardcore mode pretty much.

Make death a thing again.

Create risk vs reward gameplay once again, that would easily satisfy mine and others thirst for a challenge while we wait.

It sounds like a good thing but it really isn't for hardcore mode and I'll tell ya why. Lag, latency, and disconnects. Since everything is server side players without a perfect connection with our servers can enter a world of problems. It's one of the main reasons DDE hardcore mode was so hated. Players would lose maps repeatedly due to being hit even though they may not see it on their screen or get a small lag spike and end up where they don't want to be and die. Then for players who disconnect this is considered a death and so if a friend were to disconnect they are out the rest of the wave.

Now for some players this may not seem like a problem if they have no issues at all however with server side stuff you're bound to have more issues than not especially when you're in further away locations from the servers themselves. If we added in the mode and then geared awesome loot to it, players in distant regions or lag prone areas would never be able to receive this loot. That would be absolutely unfair to them. When a lag spike happens to 2-3 of your team members and you needed them for a boss fight, now its only you, it's much harder to win and in a lot of cases, impossible. We don't have a setup like League where they have their own lag free network that spans the entire globe and basically helps ensure no one has such problems. Which means no DD1 like hardcore mode. We may create another more difficult mode but when you force player deaths without a perfect network/server side setup it's not a pretty picture. Hope that helps understand why we haven't done this.

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there are tons of other ways to give content like putting a temporary NM5


basically the same as NM4 was at start


right now nothing matter, even the new incursion, the last incursion was super good imo but it doesnt matter cause ppl i already full NM4 gear so there cant be a NM4 that is fun, its just gonna be a grind


you should accept that a wipe is needed before the revamp or nothing will matter, or NM5


what is really useless is pushing heroes and map in this meta that is already DONE, its not fun

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you should accept that a wipe is needed before the revamp or nothing will matter, or NM5

what is really useless is pushing heroes and map in this meta that is already DONE, its not fun

Trendy risks losing many players if another wipe occurred, especially players who would get hit by a second wipe. 

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@nah quote:


you should accept that a wipe is needed before the revamp or nothing will matter, or NM5

what is really useless is pushing heroes and map in this meta that is already DONE, its not fun

Trendy risks losing many players if another wipe occurred, especially players who would get hit by a second wipe. 

Its in development if people quit because of a wipe, well then maybe they signed up for the wrong thing. I haven't got to put as many hours as I'd like into DD2 yet, but if a wipe was to occur after a revamp and polished update, then I'd welcome it.

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@itsExis quote:

Its in development if people quit because of a wipe, well then maybe they signed up for the wrong thing. I haven't got to put as many hours as I'd like into DD2 yet, but if a wipe was to occur after a revamp and polished update, then I'd welcome it.

Of coarse you would considering your hours. I agree.

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@itsExis quote:

Still would be 130hrs lost demon.png Just not 400+ like some friends

The proper way to do this is not a wipe, it's to increase the item/difficulty cap.

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@Ice quote:
@KnowsNoLimits quote:

However while people are waiting, their's simply no reason not to do something as simple as the idea I have mentioned above, bring back DD1's hardcore mode pretty much.

Make death a thing again.

Create risk vs reward gameplay once again, that would easily satisfy mine and others thirst for a challenge while we wait.

It sounds like a good thing but it really isn't for hardcore mode and I'll tell ya why. Lag, latency, and disconnects. Since everything is server side players without a perfect connection with our servers can enter a world of problems. It's one of the main reasons DDE hardcore mode was so hated. Players would lose maps repeatedly due to being hit even though they may not see it on their screen or get a small lag spike and end up where they don't want to be and die. Then for players who disconnect this is considered a death and so if a friend were to disconnect they are out the rest of the wave.

Now for some players this may not seem like a problem if they have no issues at all however with server side stuff you're bound to have more issues than not especially when you're in further away locations from the servers themselves. If we added in the mode and then geared awesome loot to it, players in distant regions or lag prone areas would never be able to receive this loot. That would be absolutely unfair to them. When a lag spike happens to 2-3 of your team members and you needed them for a boss fight, now its only you, it's much harder to win and in a lot of cases, impossible. We don't have a setup like League where they have their own lag free network that spans the entire globe and basically helps ensure no one has such problems. Which means no DD1 like hardcore mode. We may create another more difficult mode but when you force player deaths without a perfect network/server side setup it's not a pretty picture. Hope that helps understand why we haven't done this.

Hey Ice, been awhile.

Well that monumentally sucks, but your reasoning is quite solid. I do remember lag spiking off to my doom in Embermount, so much so that I built 1 du apprentice barriers as railings so I couldn't fly off.

Also phantom Phoenix hits were abundant, strangely I don't have that issue with DD2.

Well that's a no go then. Ok a new difficulty mode could work, but for the love of god please no NMV. The way you diluted Nightmare has destroyed it from being a challenging mode or to be taken seriously. If you are intent on keeping that numbering system for Nightmare then give me something like Hell mode which would be the real end game mode this game deserves.

Anyway my point stands about giving the hardcore players something in the mean time, especially now that you have two OP characters who can make it that you can AFK your hardest content with little to no effort.

Take all the time you need with the strategic revamp, it's so important to get it right.

New characters are a welcomed addition, but I feel with how strong they are I won't see their full potential and what they can really do until the revamp. 

Right now they just decimate everything and their's little fun in that.

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Ya I won't play thru a wipe, sadly but I agree it's not needed and if a push back for a more polished end result is the case so be it

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