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iSkeptical

Raising Level Cap

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I've played countless hours of DD1 on xbox360 for as long as I can remember. I always felt that I was being awarded for the time I put into it...

I have 266 hours logged into DD2... I feel like I am just repeating the same thing over... There isn't a point. Leveling heros all at once, XP gaines for every level 50 character you have in your deck... All great... But I did that before that even came out. I have been playing NM3 for so long now, unable to find a lobby or progress into NM4. What happens when I finally do? What is the point in playing when I know I'm as strong as I'm every going to get? For new characters? For better pets? Around 100 hours I have lost point in the game... I would have, and willing to put more hours into the game if I felt that I was progressing. I still find joy in the original, but after playing DD2 and after playing on PS4 for awhile now, the graphics are a turn down, and the lobbys are either dead or modded... 


It would mean a lot if you guys added something besides more gear/maps/characters and leveling faster... I feel like once you hit 50 and NM3 and NM4, the game lose meaning and gets boring fast... In the mean time, I'm going to go find another game to play, I can no longer force myself to play currently.


I think the Level Cap and other things needs another look... 


Other players probably made this suggestion, didn't really look. Hope you consider. Nice characters and maps though... Wish I had meaning to play them :P

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@iSkeptical quote:

I've played countless hours of DD1 on xbox360 for as long as I can remember. I always felt that I was being awarded for the time I put into it...

I have 266 hours logged into DD2... I feel like I am just repeating the same thing over... There isn't a point. Leveling heros all at once, XP gaines for every level 50 character you have in your deck... All great... But I did that before that even came out. I have been playing NM3 for so long now, unable to find a lobby or progress into NM4. What happens when I finally do? What is the point in playing when I know I'm as strong as I'm every going to get? For new characters? For better pets? Around 100 hours I have lost point in the game... I would have, and willing to put more hours into the game if I felt that I was progressing. I still find joy in the original, but after playing DD2 and after playing on PS4 for awhile now, the graphics are a turn down, and the lobbys are either dead or modded... 


It would mean a lot if you guys added something besides more gear/maps/characters and leveling faster... I feel like once you hit 50 and NM3 and NM4, the game lose meaning and gets boring fast... In the mean time, I'm going to go find another game to play, I can no longer force myself to play currently.


I think the Level Cap and other things needs another look... 


Other players probably made this suggestion, didn't really look. Hope you consider. Nice characters and maps though... Wish I had meaning to play them :P

Playing the PS4 in general, not the DD2 version 

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If your doing the same thing over and over just to get to 50 wouldnt it be alot worse to raise the cap to 75 or 100 to say. Just considering how linear the levels get

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Personally think levelling up heros is boring so level 100 would bring more boredom.


We would get weapons and armour that needed the character to be level 100 so would feel forced to grind up there.

I am saying level 100 just because of DD1. I am sure they will raise the cap later on like they did in DD1.


I wish the item level requirement would be removed. At present I can make a new character but have to grind them up by playing hard freeplay 5 times a day, endless easy harbinger or just leaving them in the deck for a week or two while playing NM4 before I can put my NM4 armour I have for them. Just boring.


We need more maps, challenges, types of difficulty levels, score system with leader boards... Just anything.


These new heros coming out is great but need new challenges as well.


The new level Unholy Catacombs Incursion was great but I completed it second attempt on NM4. Done. Then its grind away for 750ipow chest pieces. 


Making maps must take some time however we already have a load of maps no one plays (sewers for example). Give each map an incursion and onslaught (and sort out onslaught, playing for 12 hours straight is nuts).

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@Alonzo quote:

Personally think levelling up heros is boring so level 100 would bring more boredom.


We would get weapons and armour that needed the character to be level 100 so would feel forced to grind up there.

I am saying level 100 just because of DD1. I am sure they will raise the cap later on like they did in DD1.


I wish the item level requirement would be removed. At present I can make a new character but have to grind them up by playing hard freeplay 5 times a day, endless easy harbinger or just leaving them in the deck for a week or two while playing NM4 before I can put my NM4 armour I have for them. Just boring.


We need more maps, challenges, types of difficulty levels, score system with leader boards... Just anything.


These new heros coming out is great but need new challenges as well.


The new level Unholy Catacombs Incursion was great but I completed it second attempt on NM4. Done. Then its grind away for 750ipow chest pieces. 


Making maps must take some time however we already have a load of maps no one plays (sewers for example). Give each map an incursion and onslaught (and sort out onslaught, playing for 12 hours straight is nuts).

I feel that having a level cap in general makes the game seem like it has an end... I don't see the point of playing when you are equipped with full out legendary gear, have the new heroes, and playing any map... The game lost purpose... NM4 eventually becomes easier/boring because you hit a dead end. 

And leveling is boring? Lol I loved DD1, never got tired of leveling my hero and my gear! Now it just getting legendarys with just the right stats after grinding for hours and hours... Now thats boring sir... Just my opinion.

But yes, they need to add new and more challenges, and i feel that putting on caps to keep things "balanced" is a joke. Nothing in this game so far is balanced.  

Example: Dps Squire Vs Dps Huntress, Apprentice, Monk ... Huntress wins... If things were truely balanced, any dps build should be equal to another... but it isnt... And it seems to me the new heroes just through and shook the balance off even more. 

They seemed to be trying to maintain balance in the game and saying they were trying to keep balance but with every update, I just don't see it yet. 

Alpha I know, been playing since early access when the cap was only level 25...

317 Hours played total. I'm at the end of the road on NM4 running out of things to do but help other players get nm4 gear...

I liked DD1 because you could just go on and on, seemed like there wasnt an end... I made it to level 73 there... I wasn't quite sure there was a level cap.


And to the playing the same maps over and over... They do need to fix that... They need to add a way to were players can't just spam kill a boss for 2 or 3 hours to get from 0-50 in one day. I think they should increase XP rates on NM end game modes because you need be level 50 to play those maps anyways and its more of a challenge than spam killing a boss on normal/easy :P


Again, the game does need major reworks... and I feel that restraining players isn't a way to go.. I feel like I practically beat the game... and I love this game too much to simply quit on it yet it is hard for me to keep playing without a purpose.

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at the moment, increasing the level has no value in the game

all it does is making player higher level, that's it

unless there are more content in the game, until then, a level change would not be necessary

and DD1's level cap was 100

and back in DD1, the exp was scaled on difficulty and it took a lot more exp to level as well

by level 99 to 100, you needed hundreds of million of exp to level, however, hardest difficulty (aka NMHC) gave a ton of exp

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437017726

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@iSkeptical quote:


Example: Dps Squire Vs Dps Huntress, Apprentice, Monk ... Huntress wins... If things were truely balanced, any dps build should be equal to another... but it isnt... And it seems to me the new heroes just through and shook the balance off even more. 

No, absolutely not. The last thing the game needs is for all the heroes to have the same dps. They fill different roles.

Squire is a tank.

Huntress is sustained single target with cc and a burst line attack.

Apprentice *should* be primarily aoe burst through his abilities. I don't have a geared dps apprentice to check that, just going off how his kit seems and his passives. If he is just a weaker version of the huntress, I'd hope they change that with the revamp/bandaid buff that's coming.

Monk is, like the huntress, more of a jack of all trades. He has melee and ranged attacks. His kit has a knock up, a knock back, and an aoe buff/heal.

So, dps wise it should probably go Huntress/Monk > Apprentice > Squire. Burst damage should be Apprentice >>> Huntress > Monk > Squire. 

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@Soulstiger quote:


@iSkeptical quote:


Example: Dps Squire Vs Dps Huntress, Apprentice, Monk ... Huntress wins... If things were truely balanced, any dps build should be equal to another... but it isnt... And it seems to me the new heroes just through and shook the balance off even more. 

No, absolutely not. The last thing the game needs is for all the heroes to have the same dps. They fill different roles.

Squire is a tank.

Huntress is sustained single target with cc and a burst line attack.

Apprentice *should* be primarily aoe burst through his abilities. I don't have a geared dps apprentice to check that, just going off how his kit seems and his passives. If he is just a weaker version of the huntress, I'd hope they change that with the revamp/bandaid buff that's coming.

Monk is, like the huntress, more of a jack of all trades. He has melee and ranged attacks. His kit has a knock up, a knock back, and an aoe buff/heal.

So, dps wise it should probably go Huntress/Monk > Apprentice > Squire. Burst damage should be Apprentice >>> Huntress > Monk > Squire. 

I see what you are saying... I'm skeptical though... Seems like building a dps monk or apprentice is a waste of time, not even worth it, just use them as builders, thats if you dont have any new characters... I find that my abyslord, ev2, and my squire to build nm4, everything else (monk, huntress, apprentice) isn't even worth my time anymore. Ev2 replaces the both huntress and apprentice roles (freezes enemies and dps) and abyslord replaces monk (for the most part) for AA and dps, monks lightning auras and AA's arnt even used anymore because of how bad they are... I rarely see Idel Flow & Purge Evil Sentry Aruas used... and I only see boost auras used to increase blockade health or boost skeletal archers...thats it... 

So a dps monk is < A dps Ev2

So a dps huntress is < A dps Ev2

So a frosty Apprentice is less than < A properly built defence Ev2

And squires... Well... I never see them play their tank role or out in action... They are wall builders... and that is their only role in end game it seems...

I have a Ev2 Builders and a dps Ev2, and I have a Abyslord builder and almost have another one for ability power...

As I have seen... Squire, Ev2, and Abyslord is all I have used in end game NM4, and as of the moment... I find the rest of the characters unimportant or worth any more of my time.


You can try to justify roles, but in the end, the monks/huntress/apprentice roles, it seems to me (in my opinion) is not even valuable compared to the new character's roles.

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No, I agree with soulstiger. 

Your entire counter point against him is based on the fact that the game is currently unbalanced, and multiple fixes are in the works to counter that. Besides, as far as hero dps goes the new incursion weapons are making the old heroes perfectly viable as dps in the games current state.


Anyways, I wouldnt be opposed to a level cap increase or prestige system of some sort. Gear should not be effected, gear should remain lvl 50 or the lvl restriction should just be removed as its kind of pointless anyways. After 50 leveling should take a TON of xp, and stat reward per level should be small, like 5. Then we would at least feel we are getting something out each match when no gear drops. 

But trendy has bigger issues to deal with, like balance, so I doubt anything like this will be implemented anytime soon, if ever.

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They are giving 750 items on specific new maps, it's not exactly the same u ask for but it a start.

Maybe more levels will be just to delay playing End game content cause there is no more ways to lvl up, if they continue the campaing maybe they will increase level cap and add new passives or even stats... but think about it as an expansion... not seem to occurs soon at least

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Looks like there going in the opposite direction actually. I swear I read somewhere they are trying to pace the campaign so you are at or near the level cap by the time its over so you can avoid a grind to endgame. Thats sounds fine to me and is a perfect time to put in some sort of prestige system so we can continue getting something for xp. Like 5 extra stat points every 10 million xp after 50.

I mean really, does anyone think it would be op to be able to max all our stats out after a tremendous amount of grinding? After the soft cap that we can already easily reach in all stats is done, most stats barely increase in any meaningfull way with more points. Hybrids would recieve the most benefit but they are already at a disadvantage anyways so thats not a huge deal. Most characters would make no use out of being able to have stats in both hero and towers, maybe a dps squire could throw down an emergency replacement wall that could sustain maybe 1 hit, hardly game breaking.

I think it would be nice, but not gonna hold my breath.

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@Pizzaface quote:

Looks like there going in the opposite direction actually. I swear I read somewhere they are trying to pace the campaign so you are at or near the level cap by the time its over so you can avoid a grind to endgame. Thats sounds fine to me and is a perfect time to put in some sort of prestige system so we can continue getting something for xp. Like 5 extra stat points every 10 million xp after 50.

I mean really, does anyone think it would be op to be able to max all our stats out after a tremendous amount of grinding? After the soft cap that we can already easily reach in all stats is done, most stats barely increase in any meaningfull way with more points. Hybrids would recieve the most benefit but they are already at a disadvantage anyways so thats not a huge deal. Most characters would make no use out of being able to have stats in both hero and towers, maybe a dps squire could throw down an emergency replacement wall that could sustain maybe 1 hit, hardly game breaking.

I think it would be nice, but not gonna hold my breath.

What I'm saying about increasing level cap, keep the lv50 requirement for end game, yet make it to where after level 50 grinding for a level there on out is harder and you get a few stat points per level from 50+ (not nearly as much as you get them leveling to 50 though)... So it makes it to grinding past 50 optional, yet not too op. That seems fairly simple enough yet requires nothing complicated like introducing a prestige system... Honestly I'm tired just going after gear, boring AF, I liked DD1 because most of your stats depended on your char, and having well equiped armor with it was a huge bonus, now its 100% reliant on gear and the IPWR system (which I hate)... for so many reasons. I honestly think DD1 is still 3x more of a game than DD2. I wish I never played DD2 because it makes DD1 look god ugly. That is the only thing with DD1 besides its hacked lobbys and endgame play when you're instantly killing everything. Just my opinion though.

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What your suggesting and my prestige suggestion are the exact same thing,  more stats in exchange for XP, your method just gives a visual number update on our level. So I dont see how mine is more complicated lol. Id argue mine is simpler as it wont confuse people into thinking they need to keep leveling before tackling the end game.

Either way is fine, just give us something for all this xp thats being wasted.


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I have 20 currently, aside from a wall apprentice that I am thinking about making I cant think of anymore roles that need a dedicated hero. Maybe once new build gear is released or something I will make some more.

Regardless, theres no benefit to a lot of things in this game. Some sort of system to convert all this xp into stats is no where near gamebreaking, will be easy to implement, and gives people with a ton of time on their hands something else to do.

Just my thoughts, Im sure they have much more important matters to attend to. But I wouldnt mind seeing something like this someday.

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@Pizzaface quote:

No, I agree with soulstiger. 

Your entire counter point against him is based on the fact that the game is currently unbalanced, and multiple fixes are in the works to counter that. Besides, as far as hero dps goes the new incursion weapons are making the old heroes perfectly viable as dps in the games current state.


Anyways, I wouldnt be opposed to a level cap increase or prestige system of some sort. Gear should not be effected, gear should remain lvl 50 or the lvl restriction should just be removed as its kind of pointless anyways. After 50 leveling should take a TON of xp, and stat reward per level should be small, like 5. Then we would at least feel we are getting something out each match when no gear drops. 

But trendy has bigger issues to deal with, like balance, so I doubt anything like this will be implemented anytime soon, if ever.

You can agree with Soulstiger, but that doesn't make iskeptical wrong about the fact that the balance is an issue atm.

Squire is a sole wall builder and nothing else, for example.
While I do agree that Trendy has other topics to focus on first, Increasing the level cap is not directly what would change the imbalance either. I think the key to this issue 'iskeptical' is adressing is patience. :)
Where as in this is a good suggestion, I would leave increasing the level cap for way further down the line. Although that is just my opinion.

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Umm what? 

Squire can only build walls? Squire is more than viable as a dps or dps/tank with the new incursion weapon. Huntress and apprentice also have new weapons to make them playable. So saying they are so unbalanced that they are a waste of time is silly and therefore does make him wrong, as balance is being dealt with all the time.

Besides, all content in the game was done solo, with resistance lanes, no new incursion weapons, and hero deck limitations, long before any of these new heroes and easier gameplay came out. Further proof that the original heroes are not a waste of time. With the old limitations on hero deck I soloed NM4 just fine using tower monk, apprentice, squire to build and tank squire as active hero. 

Your all welcome to your opinions, and the game does need more balancing. But just because a hero doesnt do as much damage as another doesnt mean they are worthless or incapable of filling a unique role in your deck.

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I'm not gonna say you're wrong, because I don't think you are.
I'm not saying that some are useless. but I am saying squire for example is to me a class that is underwhelming in most aspects. but I just realized that this discussion might aswell be on hold. for the balance changes they're already implementing soon :)

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Well, I dont know if you have tried it yet but a 'sword of unholy fire' dps squire is quite fun and perfectly viable and may change your mind about him. My sword is base ipwr 745 with ability power, crit chance, and 600% ability power damage on flame, so its almost perfect. But really any unholy sword with ability power and a decent % will do fine.

Youll want all wizard gear (abilty power/hero crit damage), with as much crit chance as you can get including all 3 small spheres for crit chance. 

Use 1 medium sphere for 400 move speed for general mobility as well as not moving like a slug while you are shooting flames. The other medium slot is personal preference, if you plan on tanking a little then take the sphere that enhances your block. If you wanna go all out offense, you can go with more crit chance or move speed. 

Large sphere should be 'fight me not', as your sword will be constantly taunting enemies and this will let any defenses targeting them do more damage.

Throw 100 points into hero health for survivability then the rest into ability power and crit damage, and using dragolich is obviously the optimal pet. With this set up there are no lanes or special enemies that I cannot melt.

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I did that unholy fire build Ipower 734 (or 713 I don't remember) I think my total was, so not max, but high enough. and yes it worked wonders on holding a lane, but stuff in my lane was still up for longer than other lanes, and especially ogres there was no difference on the ogres, might aswell have been kiting them on tower chars. (ofcourse there was a difference with the thing that mobstake more dmg from defences when targetting you, but it wasn't substantial I felt)

Though the survivability was fun, I see that build as a tank build rather than DPS.

So thank for the explanation of the build, but I already tried it. :)
But as I said, whatever I say now is soon of no more importance, cause balance changes are imminent! :D

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True, its tankier than other dps, but doesnt make it a tank. I have a whole other squire for that and hes far better at it. But thats the point, characters can be built different ways to fill a different kind of roll while still being viable. The op wants all characters to do the exact same uber EV2 level dps and any hero that doesnt is a waste of time, which is nonsense and is how this argument was originally started with him and soulstiger.

I dont see how things were alive longer in your lane or that you did not notice any difference on ogres. I just did a test and depending on crits I was doing between 150-240k dps. No lane will survive more than a few seconds with that much damage, and no tower hero is coming close to that damage on an ogre.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but there are no changes coming in the hero revamp that are going to have squire be a more effective dps than this build already is. And thats fine, because it doesnt need to be any better.

But w/e, have fun and enjoy yur game.

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Yes I stated this in the post that you responded to at first aswell that the OP his ideas didn't seem 100% correct or failproof or however you wanna put it. But that there are balancing issues. Using my experience with the squire merely as an example.
I must have done something wrong then, cause my build didn't turn out the way you describe.

And no bubbles burst here, that last part sounds abit passive agressive, might just be me, but again, I was just using the Squire and my experiences with it as an example. they're doing balancing of all 4 basic characters and mostly Defence based. I know this, but it's balancing nevertheless. So things that might feel unbalanced to some for now, will probably be different soon is all I'm saying.

I'm not looking for an arguement or discussion for the sake of winning it. I'm merely here to share my opinion with you and others. :)

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@Pizzaface quote:


And sorry to burst your bubble, but there are no changes coming in the hero revamp that are going to have squire be a more effective dps than this build already is. And thats fine, because it doesnt need to be any better.

But w/e, have fun and enjoy yur game.

We’re making the Squire a more viable melee and ability power fighter. We’ll be making both of his blockades sturdier and increase the damage of all of his defenses. We're also experimenting with removing root motion, so you can move and attack at the same time.

https://dungeondefenders.com/2/blog/136101/power-up-update-coming-in-july

We haven't seen the changes, so I wouldn't say that yet. Sword beams could easily match/beat unholy fire. Or melee attacks.

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Wasnt trying to sound aggressive at all, or just trying to win an argument just to win it. Sorry if it came off that way. I currently have 20 fully geared characters. I know what they are capable of doing, so I am going to argue when people try telling me things that I know are false, like squire being nothing but a wall builder.

You kept saying the buffs were coming as if it was going to do amazing things for squire dps, and I just dont see that happening. Hence the bubble bursting comment, wasnt trying to be aggressive.

As far as why you didnt get the same results as me, I cant say other than maybe differences in gear. I literally leveled a new squire and started farming for high ipwr wizard gear with crit chance a full month before the unholy sword was released on PS4 because I was so excited about the sword when I saw it released for PC. So his gear is pretty nice as ive slowly been perfecting it for quite some time. Those dps values are actually a bit lower than usual as all my crit chance % are still nerfed to lowest value on PS4.


And yeah soulstiger I know those changes are coming, looking forward to them :) I am just saying that if someone finds the unholy sword build underwhelming, then these new buffs are certainly not going to make squire more appealing to them, even if they do manage to offer slightly higher dps. Its not going to be EV2 level. 

I could see a ranger gear sword beam build being good, and would be a fun excuse for me to build squire #6. It could offer more range and bursty damage over the unholy sword. But its limited by ability mana, meaning you may be falling back on melee for ogres and other high health targets. With the boost to how melee works that may not be a bad thing, but still riskier than the constant unlimited combo of blocking and dps'ing at the same time. But I guess youd still have ability power on ranger gear so no reason currently not to use unholy sword, it wont be as effective as a build dedicated to it, but it will allow you to still dps if you find yourself in a sticky situation that requires blocking. Melee changes should be a nice boost to my tank squire as well, so that will be cool.

But hey, different builds filling different roles and ways of playing are what Im all about. The buffs and balances are going to help for sure, but the old 4 are not as in bad a shape as some claim. Monk should be next in line for an incursion weapon, im looking forward to that more than whatever changes hes getting in this update.


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I just meant that balancing is being done. I didn't mean anything specific, but I was just trying to use an example. :p
About the "trying to win an arguement" I only meant that I recognize your opinion and that I hope you see mine, even if not all my facts are completely 100%. Just pointing out there's no bad intentions or whatever. :)

Concerning my build, I can only assume my crit chance didn't reach what it should have been?
Or I must have overlooked like 1 of the key attributes to the build, Idunno. But it doesn't really matter. :)

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