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A good game needs to appeal to hardcore as well as casual.


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The game is becoming way too casual. If only 1 or 2 people have something it is special and cool. If everyone has it, it is just garbage. The monthly is a great example of this. Yes monthly quest should be made so everyone has the ability to finish it. But there is nothing for hardcore players. Hardcore players finish monthly like they are dailies. 

I think for future monthly quests or even dailies there should be 2 modes to them. 1 for casual and 1 for hardcore. Hardcore is obviously optional. An example for this is daily quest kill 500 enemy with traps. If you pick it and finish 500 enemy you get your reward. If you do 1 step further and do 5000 enemys with traps you get guarantee bonus item booster and maybe bonus medals.

The monthly after you finish it, there is a hardcore version of it. Instead of 10,000 knock/stun it is 100,000 knock/stun, 10,000 tuant etc. The hardcore version would give the golden version of the current monthly pet. Casual players still get the basic pet but hardcore players get the trophy for their handwork. It won't be anything that changes the game it will just be cosmetics. 

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I personally like your idea, or at the very least, the premise of achieving hardcore objective grants a hardcore reward. I play this game a fair amount, and intend to continue to do so. I'm in the 20 th percentile, probably.  I think having something the 1%ers can do in 15-20 days, and for us to strive for over the course of the entire month. 

Or maybe have multiple tiers of the monthly. I don't think we can be  pulled into too many directions, but if say at the end of the month you are rewarded for your time spent. Whereas you would get a fully levelled pet, I would 26/45 pet and iamison would get a 1/25, or whatever. 

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all you need is a scaling open ended system for a monthly quest.

So the system would be something like this:

Slow 100,000 enemies

knock up 10,000 enemies

provoke 5,000 enemies

and you receive a reward at the end of the month

then every  20% you do over the base quest amount gives you +1% of the original reward.

so if the rewards are:

pet - 10% chance of it being legendary

300k gold 

2000 medals

Each 20% you do over the original base quest gives you +1% on those totals. So just doing 20% more would net you:

pet - 11% chance of it being legendary

303k gold

2020 medals

Now the numbers could be tweaked to the point where it felt pointless to farm it, but at the end of the month you get a nice little bonus. In addition to this the UI would need to reflect where you were with your current 20% extra quest, that being, are you behind on knockups or slowed enemies etc.

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@Zimmermann quote:

all you need is a scaling open ended system for a monthly quest.

So the system would be something like this:

Slow 100,000 enemies

knock up 10,000 enemies

provoke 5,000 enemies

and you receive a reward at the end of the month

then every  20% you do over the base quest amount gives you +1% of the original reward.

so if the rewards are:

pet - 10% chance of it being legendary

300k gold 

2000 medals

Each 20% you do over the original base quest gives you +1% on those totals. So just doing 20% more would net you:

pet - 11% chance of it being legendary

303k gold

2020 medals

Now the numbers could be tweaked to the point where it felt pointless to farm it, but at the end of the month you get a nice little bonus. In addition to this the UI would need to reflect where you were with your current 20% extra quest, that being, are you behind on knockups or slowed enemies etc.

This wont work cuz they want it to be fair for all people. But if it was cosmetics we get our reward and it doesnt hurt others.

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@NineO_OSix quote:


@Zimmermann quote:

all you need is a scaling open ended system for a monthly quest.

So the system would be something like this:

Slow 100,000 enemies

knock up 10,000 enemies

provoke 5,000 enemies

and you receive a reward at the end of the month

then every  20% you do over the base quest amount gives you +1% of the original reward.

so if the rewards are:

pet - 10% chance of it being legendary

300k gold 

2000 medals

Each 20% you do over the original base quest gives you +1% on those totals. So just doing 20% more would net you:

pet - 11% chance of it being legendary

303k gold

2020 medals

Now the numbers could be tweaked to the point where it felt pointless to farm it, but at the end of the month you get a nice little bonus. In addition to this the UI would need to reflect where you were with your current 20% extra quest, that being, are you behind on knockups or slowed enemies etc.

This wont work cuz they want it to be fair for all people. But if it was cosmetics we get our reward and it doesnt hurt others.

That is not a valid argument, as what about those poor souls who cannot complete the monthly quest? how is the current system fair to them?
If the % increase was to much, it could simply be reduced and scale, so it gets less and less profitable the longer you farming it.
The real question is; is it worth it for a minority of slightly more hardcore gamers? I suspect its not worth the development time, when it will only please a minority and possibly even piss of some casuals.

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When you play hearthstone casually do you get pissed off at people with golden heroes? No, but when you urself finally get that golden hero do you feel nothing? Also no. You get a sense of accomplishment. Every good game knows in order to make a successful game you need to make appeals for both casual and hardcore players.


Your last argument makes no sense. Who told you just cuz hardcore player are a minority that they don't matter? Why are they being treated like 2nd class citizens. 

The needs of someone playing 10 hours a day is just as important as the needs of 10 casuals playing 1 hour randomly. 

http://makegames.tumblr.com/post/681893596/design-for-the-hardcore

This post best describes the point I am trying to get across. So believe it or not it is worth it to spend the extra development time to appeal to your so called small minority.

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You just realized this?

I have been saying it all the damn time. DD2's been quite casual for quite sometime. At least now you can play a decent map, so go play Unholy Catacombs and farm some ipwr 750 gear and forget about the Monthly. That is your end game atm.

If they raise the pre-requisites again you will have the people who have real life commitments complaining.

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If there were additional tiers to the quests maybe they should only turn visible after you have beaten special maps and/or special difficulties.

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I'm sorry what? So your idea of challenge is that it should drag on with *** monthlies for 100s of hours, and the challenge is not putting your fist through your monitor while bored out of your skull? Sounds great for a "good game..."

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@braydon quote:

I'm sorry what? So your idea of challenge is that it should drag on with *** monthlies for 100s of hours, and the challenge is not putting your fist through your monitor while bored out of your skull? Sounds great for a "good game..."

Calm down. Just some brainstorming (spitballing) going on here.

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@Etownoilerfan quote:


@braydon quote:

I'm sorry what? So your idea of challenge is that it should drag on with *** monthlies for 100s of hours, and the challenge is not putting your fist through your monitor while bored out of your skull? Sounds great for a "good game..."

Calm down. Just some brainstorming (spitballing) going on here.

You're mistaking disbelief with anger... I am calm. I just can't understand how you think forcing yourself through mind numbing crap is a good challenge...

If you wanted something actually challenging it would need to require some actual skill, or something outside of wasting 100s of hours to do... For instance, beat the harbinger using only the abyss lord for your whole team, or beat 5 distinct incursions on nm4, that would actually have people play more than ramparts and spectral.

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Good ideas. For me, I am still working on levelling up, so those mundane multi tier monthly works for me. I am not going to be able to do all that stuff, cuz I have another objective in mind. Getting to i700. That's not to say we can't have both. YOu don't have to do the monthly, instead, you work on the challenge mode, and I get my upgraded pet or whatever. Destiny, a game I share my time with, offers many different things to do in endgame, and they add more and more ways to achieve it all the time. They have been working towards this for the last 2 years, post release. It's my belief that we need to eventually diversify here as well.

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there definitely needs to be more content or harder challenges for the hardcore player base, I love the idea of a hardcore variant of monthly missions but instead of a golden pet (as they are used for special events to give everyone a chance at the pet) maybe platinum or another variant?


I'm sure end-game will get more work in future and hopefully be given enough content to keep long-term active players busy.

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Yep, while endgame undoubtedly needs to grow in various ways, we can't forget about the journey to the endgame. Which is where I am coming from. 

I can imagine something popping up on screen, or the monthly board, once completed, and saying 'good job Etown! You can upgrade your new pet to have a glowing halo, ( devil horns or whatever) by completing this, that and the other thing plus finishing x-map with only half defence towers but hurry, the monthly time limit still applies!' 

It will inspire many people to play just a bit more, and accelerate their progress towards endgame.


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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

If they raise the pre-requisites again you will have the people who have real life commitments complaining.

I see it fair. The monthly quest is fine as it is, and even though some players managed to get it in a few hours, more casual players should have the chance to do it too.

I don't know, maybe have a Dragon Age Inquisition's or Mass Effect 3's system like weekly/monthly challenges with community objectives or something?

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@Nefhith quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

If they raise the pre-requisites again you will have the people who have real life commitments complaining.

I see it fair. The monthly quest is fine as it is, and even though some players managed to get it in a few hours, more casual players should have the chance to do it too.

I don't know, maybe have a Dragon Age Inquisition's or Mass Effect 3's system like weekly/monthly challenges with community objectives or something?

The monthly quest is not fine, Its not a monthly. Even for a casual player. the difficulty/challenge needs to be increased,  ITs almost like a daily.

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The monthly is no good as a casual. The last monthly i did was 30 waves of onslaught if i remember correct. So i did those and my game time was up for that weekend. Never again.

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@NineO_OSix quote:

When you play hearthstone casually do you get pissed off at people with golden heroes? 

When one is matched against someone with clearly better stuff and has no hope of winning it is exactly that, irritating. There are many such times when casuals feel they cannot compete, that is but one example.

@NineO_OSix quote:

Your last argument makes no sense. Who told you just cuz hardcore player are a minority that they don't matter? Why are they being treated like 2nd class citizens. 

My argument was that why spend limited resources on a minority of players, when those resources can be spent on casuals, the majority for much better return.
No one is treating hardcore gamers unfairly, they are receiving the very same content casuals are, they just choose to go through it faster. I personally disagree with this argument on other "bigger picture principles", however the argument itself is valid on the available variables.
There is a big difference between punishing those who player more (treating like second class citizens, in your words) and not rewarding extra time played.

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@NewFolder quote:

The monthly is no good as a casual. The last monthly i did was 30 waves of onslaught if i remember correct. So i did those and my game time was up for that weekend. Never again.

I may be reading this wrong... But you spent 10 rnds... about an hourish maybe slightly more on onslaught and expected to have the monthly? MONTHLY.  Not a daily! Ya Monthly is plenty good for a casual if anything too easy..  AGAIN MONTHLY

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@๖ۣۜPhoenixX quote:
@NewFolder quote:

The monthly is no good as a casual. The last monthly i did was 30 waves of onslaught if i remember correct. So i did those and my game time was up for that weekend. Never again.

I may be reading this wrong... But you spent 10 rnds... about an hourish maybe slightly more on onslaught and expected to have the monthly? MONTHLY.  Not a daily! Ya Monthly is plenty good for a casual if anything too easy..  AGAIN MONTHLY

It felt like a pure waste of time. It completley misses the the target on how i want to spend my time ingame.

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That i can understand it is bland.  But these monthly's ;bland or not have just become rediculously easy.  .  At a time we have to kill 75 ogres or level our pets 50 times..  which is boring as well but more like a monthly then it is now.  no one should be able to complete a monthly in a day for one,  24hours Id let it go But you can do this in an hour maybe 2.

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I dont know how making the monthly harder would impact casuals so imo stuff like this is fine. If you play the game normally and dont targetfarm for the monthly this could take quite some time.

Maybe changing up the dailies would be a better approach. Make different tiers of dailies and if you completed all dailies for a week you get the option to get harder/easier ones for next week.

Ofcourse the rewards need to scale as well.

Another approach would be to have sonething like the alert system in warframe. There could be a special hard mission on a particular map, and if you can clear it in time before the alert expires you get a special reward.

This would be good for hardcore players and would also fit in the lore kind of well (the old one sent special forces to attack greystone plaza, stop them in given timeframe)


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I would honestly expect something like this to arrive whenever Trendy introduces Challenge modes.

Hopefully they are difficult too sort of like dd1. I can see that bein the gap from the casuals to hardcore.

In DD1, Challenge modes were fairly hard. There were cool achievements too sort of like the companion cube for completing all challenge's on nightmare 4. I think something like that would be pretty cool

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@๖ۣۜPhoenixX quote:

That i can understand it is bland.  But these monthly's ;bland or not have just become rediculously easy.  .  At a time we have to kill 75 ogres or level our pets 50 times..  which is boring as well but more like a monthly then it is now.  no one should be able to complete a monthly in a day for one,  24hours Id let it go But you can do this in an hour maybe 2.

Yes exactly. But if you ask me, none of the alternatives are really attractive :) Monthly quests should not exist like this.



@Jothi92 quote:

Another approach would be to have sonething like the alert system in warframe. There could be a special hard mission on a particular map, and if you can clear it in time before the alert expires you get a special reward.

Something like this would really be more fun. 

"Attention all Defenders! There is currently a massive attack on the Throne Room! Everyone who participates in the defense will be compensated handsomely. (X medals)"

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