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NineO_OSix

what i noticed about the micro transaction complainers

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First off most if not all of them brought 0 dlc i mean come on 0 dlc wtf. But lets move on.


Another thing I noticed is they dont have the achievemnet 4 heroes to 25. What does that mean? Either they dont have 4 heroes or they do but they choose not to even use one one them. Now please tell me why you are crying about getting another hero if you havent even play what we already have. Not like you enjoy everything in the game and hungry for more. 

Last thing is they don't read patchnotes. How hard is it to read a one page patchnote most of people concern is addressed there and the common questions are answer in the comments takes literally 2 mins to read.

Obviously there are expections and everyone is different i just notice most who complain have these traits in common

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@NineO_OSix quote:

First off most if not all of them brought 0 dlc i mean come on 0 dlc wtf. But lets move on.


Another thing I noticed is they dont have the achievemnet 4 heroes to 25. What does that mean? Either they dont have 4 heroes or they do but they choose not to even use one one them. Now please tell me why you are crying about getting another hero if you havent even play what we already have. Not like you enjoy everything in the game and hungry for more. 

Last thing is they don't read patchnotes. How hard is it to read a one page patchnote most of people concern is addressed there and the common questions are answer in the comments takes literally 2 mins to read.

Obviously there are expections and everyone is different i just notice most who complain have these traits in common

You are over generalizing.

I have bought DLC, got that achievement easily and supported Trendy.

However as usual I will call them out on BS. $15 per character is a joke.

Simple math here we already know the game is going to have 20+ characters. 15 x 20 = $300, yeah no thanks.

It could be 2000 defender medals and the principle would be the same.

It's not a matter of you can grind them out if you want to play them for free, the big issue here is that they have the balls to charge $15 for a character in an incomplete flawed game.

If I want these new characters I will grind for them, I'm not supporting them with my wallet this time around for purchasing characters at that price.

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First off i said most not all but if you wanna include ur self in it to feel special thats fine. Now lets talk about the gems. A 50 dollar dlc gives 10000 gems that 1 dollar equal to 200 gems. Now consider the dlc were also on sale around christmas and thanksgiving even cheaper. Oh you missed the sale? There are millions of steam traders who hoarded them when it was on sale all they asking for is some keys. Then there are people from other country that get the dlc cheaper like brazil they can get u the dlc for around 20 dollars wow 20 dollars for 10000 gems. Get over ur self stop treating like everything is costing you a leg.

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@NineO_OSix quote:

First off i said most not all but if you wanna include ur self in it to feel special thats fine. Now lets talk about the gems. A 50 dollar dlc gives 10000 gems that 1 dollar equal to 200 gems. Now consider the dlc were also on sale around christmas and thanksgiving even cheaper. Oh you missed the sale? There are millions of steam traders who hoarded them when it was on sale all they asking for is some keys. Then there are people from other country that get the dlc cheaper like brazil they can get u the dlc for around 20 dollars wow 20 dollars for 10000 gems. Get over ur self stop treating like everything is costing you a leg.

Get over myself, really you went there?

Ok.

Lets debate then. I have bought the this game 3 times, the PS4 Europe version, American version and the PC version and also bought some copies for friends. I say bought because I they were all the Collector's editions and I had no problem supporting Trendy.

I can afford all those 20+ characters with out even batting an eye.

However through principle alone I will not spend money on them, because at those prices it's pure greed imo.

I have the gems for the Abyss Lord right now, I even have a 500 gem code I haven't redeemed because I still have no incentive playing this game atm, until it starts delivering what I want and what we should of had long ago.

A small minded sheep like yourself think people complain because of not being able to afford characters. I guess my standards are higher than yours and I won't just pay what Trendy wants if I feel it's not reasonable.

Go follow the flock like a good little sheep and continue supporting those type of prices and then *** more about the game went it stays stale. It's casuals like you that they depend on making a profit off of and keep the game as boring as it is, why do they need to try to address end game when they can just make new shiny things for the stupid to keep buying?

I don't care how you try to justify the price, the fact is I'm not spending any additional money for a game that is still supposedly in Alpha. You can increase the defender medals to 100k per character and I will still rather grind that then promote this practice of business to be anything as acceptable.

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if you dont want to play the game then dont we dont need to hear about how you dont want to play the game in every post you make. It takes trendy a long time to release a hero. You are acting like tomorrow there are 20 heroes all costing "15" dollars which isnt even 15 dollars. I do a daily every day, if I forget I do 2 the next day. I have no problem getting each hero when it comes. It could be June before the next hero comes out and by then I have so much medals it be swimming in it. I don't think things are unreasonable. When I played dota I brought an arcana every time they made one each one 30 dollars didn't even blink an eye. 

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I don't think most of the complainers are the way you describe them at all. 15 dollars is ridiculous. "But you can grind for them". Yes, and it takes ages for most people. Also, the spheres cost medals too so you need to factor that in. Five dollars is more reasonable, or a much lower grind.

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@NineO_OSix quote:

if you dont want to play the game then dont we dont need to hear about how you dont want to play the game in every post you make. It takes trendy a long time to release a hero. You are acting like tomorrow there are 20 heroes all costing "15" dollars which isnt even 15 dollars. I do a daily every day, if I forget I do 2 the next day. I have no problem getting each hero when it comes. It could be June before the next hero comes out and by then I have so much medals it be swimming in it. I don't think things are unreasonable. When I played dota I brought an arcana every time they made one each one 30 dollars didn't even blink an eye. 

No, I rather like promoting that I won't be playing this game and keep giving valid reasons why and now that I know it annoys you I will continue to do so. It's fun to shut white knights down and I really hope this gets under your skin. Instead of following the flock like you my little sheep.

10k gems are not going to cover you for all these characters and feel free to grind all the defender medals you want. I will do the same and love it when they game is actually worth playing. However sorry Trendy, I'm voting with my wallet on this one until those prices are more reasonable.

Again we are going to disagree here.

I can spend my money on alot more enjoyable things than support a game asking for a ridiculous price, which is still incomplete. If that price is affordable to you and acceptable to you more power to you.

I personally think it's a joke and not worth it.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@NineO_OSix quote:

First off most if not all of them brought 0 dlc i mean come on 0 dlc wtf. But lets move on.


Another thing I noticed is they dont have the achievemnet 4 heroes to 25. What does that mean? Either they dont have 4 heroes or they do but they choose not to even use one one them. Now please tell me why you are crying about getting another hero if you havent even play what we already have. Not like you enjoy everything in the game and hungry for more. 

Last thing is they don't read patchnotes. How hard is it to read a one page patchnote most of people concern is addressed there and the common questions are answer in the comments takes literally 2 mins to read.

Obviously there are expections and everyone is different i just notice most who complain have these traits in common

You are over generalizing.

I have bought DLC, got that achievement easily and supported Trendy.

However as usual I will call them out on BS. $15 per character is a joke.

Simple math here we already know the game is going to have 20+ characters. 15 x 20 = $300, yeah no thanks.

It could be 2000 defender medals and the principle would be the same.

It's not a matter of you can grind them out if you want to play them for free, the big issue here is that they have the balls to charge $15 for a character in an incomplete flawed game.

If I want these new characters I will grind for them, I'm not supporting them with my wallet this time around for purchasing characters at that price.

I just want to ask which costumes you have bought? 

I assume you have spent the gems you have gotten since you say you will not support this time around. So I assume you have spent way more than 1500 gems on costumes. Correct me if I am wrong.

So if that assumption is correct I want to add. How is costumes worth you'r gems more than a new hero?

Personally I have not bought a single costume. Since I was expecting and waiting for the time when I would need to spend gems to get things.

So far that has partly been true to hero slots and bags slots. 

Still waiting to be able to buy those extra steam bag slots with gems I already have. 

Now we will get to buy hero slots for free. 

Buy new heroes for free.

I agree though. 1500 gems for a hero is a bit steep.

I bought the abyss lord and 2 additional hero slots with this update with gems I have had for, is it 2 years now?

Still have 13k+ left for the 30 dollars I paid for the charity even they did. I sorta feel bad for literally have not given Trendy a single dollar yet in terms of DD2.. Then again, myself, you and plenty of others have asked again and again for core changes we want to happen. And just now, 2+ years later we are finally starting to get at least some of them.

Trendy has been more than generous with free stuff for early adopters. But that does not change the fact that for new players it will seem greedy and high priced. Even for me, I am baffled they released a 40 dollar skin and then boasts about how successful it was.

I would probably of bought it if I could trust Trendy. But at the time when the skin released, I had no idea where their payment model was going. Coming from exclusive features not available to players who have already supported them and then a whole patch seemingly more directed towards wallets than game play.

My little rant of the day. They can charge w/e they want, then you decide how to vote with your wallet.

Still waiting for a server list, the extra steam bag slots for gems, removal of AFK timer, onslaught rework and a substantial change to nightmare content before I will start using my credit card.

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Nice observations

except those little remarks you made could qualify any statements about the playerbase because (as we know from their polling a few months ago) some astronomically high % of players don't have 2+ characters at 50 and/or got past hard difficulty


so.... yeah, your little list would be true of people who like the abyss lord pricing, who like the game, who think the game is going in a great direction, who think the hero deck prior to this patch was great, who think the earth is flat, etc etc


tl;dr, poopy science is poopy science and yet another thread is meaningless because the OP didn't think it through

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That quote is getting too big.

Ok the most expensive outfit I bought was the Dark Art Apprentice, because I enjoyed the art style and I even made a thread congratulating the artist who came up with that. It was a one off though.

I bought some other costumes when they were on sale and I have bought all the pet/inventory bags because we and quite a few hero slots with my gems and still have them left over, because at the time we really had nothing to spend these gems on.

The difference with buying the DAA outfit which is around the same price of the Abyss Lord is that it was a one off like I mentioned. Now Trendy are asking for that price for every new character being released, which imo is unreasonable.

You bring up a good point about the $40 Huntress skin. I think they did that to make you sink your gem into that, so you would buy more gems for future DLC characters. I never bought that one either, why should I?

It's a choice.

I'm definitely voting with my wallet on this one.

The game is far from complete and is still not where I want it to be personally. You have the Abyss Lord right now, but what are you doing with him that you couldn't do before content wise?

Leveling him up and gearing him up is a far better end game than spinning a wheel I guess. Still it isn't exactly something that improves the game. I feel the strategic revamp is exactly the first steps of seeing this game improve.

Just enjoy your AL guys, if you love this character and think he's worth your money, more power to you guys.

However when topic's are being made slandering people as being too poor to afford this guy and not taking into account another simple reason could be people just think he's not worth the price I'm going to respond.

There's a ton of work to be done still, that's what I'm waiting for.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

I just want to ask which costumes you have bought? 

I assume you have spent the gems you have gotten since you say you will not support this time around. So I assume you have spent way more than 1500 gems on costumes. Correct me if I am wrong.

So if that assumption is correct I want to add. How is costumes worth you'r gems more than a new hero?



I had, I think 15.8k gems after the first wipe back in august or september - just to give an idea of how much of trendy's BS I bought to 'support' them

I'm staunchly opposed to cosmetics in games but because they promised to never offer game-altering content for money/gems I bought costumes for everyone like a dummy.  Hell, they even argued that buying legendary premium pets would be P2W and I bought into their 'honesty' like a moron.  It was because gambling mechanics associated with pets make more money than even if you sold legendary pets for like 40 dollars.


Have had 3k gems left over after maxing bags a few months ago (w/o buying that dumb 'extra bag space' dlc because by then I was getting actually upset with trendy's direction and money-grubbyness of wrecking bag space and then monatizing it) and realizing that they'll charge for heroes


So... yeah.  No costume is ever worth even a single gem when heroes cost gems imo but I feel as though I was basically tricked into spending it on bull*** because I was promised bull*** is all you could spend it on.   And obviously no refunds because **** *** 4 supporting us bruh

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Well, I have had 3000 gems myself and I consumed them all on: 2 monk skins, 2 apprentice skins, Valhalla Knight, unlock the Huntress look I wanted and 2 32 slot bags so I can stash more salvage parts and alternate equipment loadouts to save on hero space (450 a hero slot is a bit meh, but I can make alternate strategies work).

The heroes are worth it in some way, but it all depends on how often you play.

It is 12000 medals for the Abyss Lord yes. However, if you complete the monthly (which isnt too difficult to do) and you wait another week, it drops to 8k over all. You then make up the 8k by doing Dailies and winning your maps, which isn't too difficult now that NM3/4 are a lot more manageable without tricks or exploitation. With winning 5 maps and proper Daily Reroll selections, you can get about 300-350 Hero Medals a day no problem. Which works out to getting it in 25 days or so.

My friends paid the 1500 Gems and don't regret doing so. I am still contemplating it myself cause I was always the earn things the hard way kind of guy. If I do it, odds are I will use medals on the Series EV. However, I am leaning more towards medals because they still need to balance this hero and the Abyss Lord still needs a Betsy, Spooky and Harbinger weapon, not to mention the hero has some Smart Loot issues. By the time these are all added, I will have the 10000 needed to pay off the Abyss Lord and a more functional hero.

But one thing Gem purchasers will need to understand is that we have 4 heroes left and that will work out to 6000 gems in the end if you get the minimum. So if anything you need to be smart with your Gems in the future. I would honestly just save Gems for skins you ABSOLUTELY want and maybe a 32 Bag or 2 (I got the bags I need since I went pre-alpha, I only bought 1 more cause it was 50% off and I wanted to have it ready for the next heroes as I store secondary loadouts for gear to save on hero slots. If you don't give a damn and wish to support them, just pay for the characters. 

The Micro-Transcations aren't as bad as one thinks, but you need to factor in two things: Will you enjoy it and is it worth the long term investment? Hell, people were pretty pissed off on how BL:TPS' DLC was handled and you had to pay $10 for each one, 2 of which were just character add ons and the other 2 were UVHM and a location and an entire campaign as long as Tiny Tina's. If you want way worse, you could play a game like Clash of Clans or Game of War: Fire Age, where people pay $50k or more to manage their towns or Diablo 3 before they destroyed the RMAH.

The way I see it: If you love the game enough to put down $100 on Gems, go ahead. But be smart with your gems! If you are going to whine and complain about how  Gems are breaking the game (when they honestly aren't), then either start amassing Medals or quit and play something else.

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@ChrisH36 That's the best advice you have for people?

If you don't like paying $15 for this character go quit the game?

With that attitude no wonder Trendy can get away with it.

Trendy can do no wrong in your eyes, what a typical white knight response. No I don't think the AL is worth it just yet, you purchase him and then what?

Last I checked this update made the game easier and we still have the same content from when I last played and that was when the Dragolich was released. Again this game is in Alpha, it's incomplete. I'm not going to waste my time with it atm until it starts to deliver a challenge and that is hopefully going to begin around the Strategic Revamp.

The Hero Deck limitation being abolished was the best thing, but now the enemies have to step up their game.

I care about end game, this game has none.

I'm going to spell out my idea of end game.

- A challenging NM that delivers on it's name and the reward is worth the challenge

- Enemies that are actual threats and have to be strategized against

- Challenges returning

- Social aspects that will boost the community with things like Player shops if trading ever comes back

- Achievements which you can accomplish and display as trophies in your private tavern

End game is what you can do other than farming for the best loot. It's variety given to the player to pick and choose as they please.

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For anyone who feels $15 is ridiculous, consider this:

Go google "game price per hour ratio", and notice that most sources state $1 per hour played as the break off point between "worth it" and "not worth it". Then take a look at your hours played for DD2, and the amount of money you've spent on DD2. For me, even though I initially bought the game, and then some DLC on top of it, my price per hour is about 0.2€. DD2 has had an incredibly fair pricing, really. Even if I decided to go on a spending spree and purchase every DD2 hero that's not even conceived yet, using 

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Simple math here we already know the game is going to have 20+ characters. 15 x 20 = $300, yeah no thanks.

I'd actually just about arrive at the break off point.

But is $15 dollars for AL specifically ridiculous? Well, for me, personally, I plan to play AL for quite a bit, I estimate that I'll get at least 30h of entertainment out of that DLC. So, AL for me is pretty good deal. Of course, for someone who would wish to buy AL just so it can sit on the shelf, that price is pretty terrible. But I'd like to point out, that nobody is forcing you to buy the heroes you don't like.


Now, I know, people will look at "$1 dollar per hour" ratio and go "But that's entirely arbitrary!" Well, ultimately it's not anymore arbitrary than the price for a bucket of KFC, which is basically just "How we feel the customers would feel about giving us X amount, whilst taking into account how our suppliers feel about receiving an Y amount, and further considering how much our employees feel they deserve for a month of work, and if our stakeholders feel the remainder turns in large enough of profit", to put it simply. 

Furthermore, that one dollar is actually quite harsh standard. For example, if I go to movies, I get about 2h of entertainment for entry fee that costs 11€. Or, I could buy an DVD for 15€ and watch it 2-3 times, which gives slightly more entertainment for each spent €, but still nowhere near $1/h. Our TV was well on the "Worth it" side tho. But how about sports? I haven't found a single suitable sports club that would cost as little as $1/h, not any within my interests anyways. What else is there, I suppose some people enjoy going on a sunday drive or something, driving for 100km/h for 4.5 liters per 100km, would cost way more than $1/h. Kids toys tend to be on the worth it side, same as pet toys I suppose. Especially pet toys, our dog can get hundreds of hours of entertainment from a simple ball.

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LOL you are really trying to validate $15 per character as not a bad thing??

Ok you buy AL now, what exactly are you going to do with him that you can't do with other characters atm? the game's difficulty hasn't changed, it's content hasn't changed. You don't really need the AL atm. You should really worry about this character once the strategic revamp is released.

I love how white knights bring up the tried and true "well no one is forcing you to buy the ski...errr character", of course no one is forcing me to buy this guy and I won't buy him when I can grind for him instead and not support such a high price.

The choice is really easy for me.

I will appreciate the character more if I earned him as opposed to spending gems on him and having instant gratification.

If the AL is worth it to you go ahead enjoy, go buy your AL and have fun with him. However when we have a currently broken and incomplete game the AL or any new character really isn't that appealing.

Again it's not a money issue at all for me, it's the principle.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Ok you buy AL now, what exactly are you going to do with him that you can't do with other characters atm? 

Play as the Abyss Lord? I thought that was the whole point. Such silly questions. But then again, I suppose I see the problem now: You're not interested enough in the new mechanisms, but are rather on the "get it to sit on my shelf" category. Of course the price is terrible for you, if this is the case.


"LOL you are really trying to validate $15 per character as not a bad thing??"

I don't think I need to validate anything. That's just how things are, or, at least you're not really refuting anything.

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What new mechanism?

Last I checked all we got this patch was something that took 2 years to address and was killing the game off. What was the excuse for the white knights again oh yeah!, "giving a limitation to the hero deck adds strategy".

Tbh the Abyss Lord should of came out with the Strategic Revamp patch, that would of made alot more sense. However looks like EVE version 2 will take his place, keep milking the gullible Trendy at $15 a pop.

Hey if it works why stop?

No, the price is just bad for me in general. Obviously if I spent the gems I have right now I could get him, but meh no incentive still to boot up this game.

Like I said if you enjoy the Abyss Lord and your purchase, go play him, have fun with him, marry him for all I care. Just don't try to tell me that DD2 atm should be charging $15 for a character when the game is incomplete and still in Alpha.

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@Sanzennin quote:

For anyone who feels $15 is ridiculous, consider this:

Go google "game price per hour ratio", and notice that most sources state $1 per hour played as the break off point between "worth it" and "not worth it"...

...if I go to movies, I get about 2h of entertainment for entry fee that costs 11€. Or, I could buy an DVD for 15€ and watch it 2-3 times, which gives slightly more entertainment for each spent €, but still nowhere near $1/h. Our TV was well on the "Worth it" side tho.

I mean, what you're saying sounds good...until you take a closer look at it.   Here are a few of the problems I see:

1) You're fixated on this binary point of worth/not worth based on hours played and using that as the primary justification.  Which doesn't hold up when I could get substantially more hours by spending my $15 elsewhere.  For $15, I could grab the entire Endless Legend collection (a few hundred hours there), the two newer Shadowruns and Transistor (hundred+ hours of higher quality fun), the next monthly humble bundle (at least hundreds of hours), etc...  How does that stack up to your 30 hours/$15?


2) Measuring by raw hours and only by raw hours completely ignores the quality of the fun.  There are many dirt cheap games that bore me to tears.  There are some more expensive games I've "gotten my hours out of" that I hated as I played, driven only by a desperate desire to see the train wreck through to the end.  Which leads into the next point...


3) You're paying $15 to have more of the exact same grinding available another time.  Oh joy.  Maybe that's what gets you hot and bothered, but for me and literally every one of my RL friends whom I've played this game with?  No please, you can't make me oh god.  When the game keeps feeling an unpaid job, I seriously question whether investing hours means I'm having fun and getting my money's worth.


And I'm sure there're many, many more issues.  Those were just the most glaring.

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@Shinnyshin quote:

I mean, what you're saying sounds good...until you take a closer look at it.   Here are a few of the problems I see:

1) You're fixated on this binary point of worth/not worth based on hours played and using that as the primary justification.  Which doesn't hold up when I could get substantially more hours by spending my $15 elsewhere.  For $15, I could grab the entire Endless Legend collection (a few hundred hours there), the two newer Shadowruns and Transistor (hundred+ hours of higher quality fun), the next monthly humble bundle (at least hundreds of hours), etc...  How does that stack up to your 30 hours/$15?


2) Measuring by raw hours and only by raw hours completely ignores the quality of the fun.  There are many dirt cheap games that bore me to tears.  There are some more expensive games I've "gotten my hours out of" that I hated as I played, driven only by a desperate desire to see the train wreck through to the end.  Which leads into the next point...


3) You're paying $15 to have more of the exact same grinding available another time.  Oh joy.  Maybe that's what gets you hot and bothered, but for me and literally every one of my RL friends whom I've played this game with?  No please, you can't make me oh god.  When the game keeps feeling an unpaid job, I seriously question whether investing hours means I'm having fun and getting my money's worth.


And I'm sure there're many, many more issues.  Those were just the most glaring.

These are valid points to make, and some quite reasonable ones too. And as I said, whether its worth it or not depends on the person. Mainly, I'm just saying that the $15 dollars price isn't that ridiculous as some people would have you believe. In any case, I'll share some thoughts about your claims

1) Just because you can get a better deal for something, doesn't really mean everything should be priced according to that.

2) I agree, quality of the entertainment is an important factor. I still estimate I would get enough quality out of AL, but that's subjective. However, keeping track of the quality of fun is downright impossible, which is why most people pondering about issues pertaining to "worth it " or "not" generally dumb it down to amount of hours. It's still a good indicator, at least I am not in the habit of engaging in boring activities in order to be entertained, as that simply doesn't work.

3) Yes, this is subjective, and basically just the same as point 2)

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@Sanzennin quote:

1) Just because you can get a better deal for something, doesn't really mean everything should be priced according to that.

2) I agree, quality of the entertainment is an important factor. I still estimate I would get enough quality out of AL, but that's subjective. However, keeping track of the quality of fun is downright impossible, which is why most people pondering about issues pertaining to "worth it " or "not" generally dumb it down to amount of hours. It's still a good indicator, at least I am not in the habit of engaging in boring activities in order to be entertained, as that simply doesn't work.

3) Yes, this is subjective, and basically just the same as point 2)

1) I have to disagree here. You absolutely SHOULD take your competitors' prices into account when developing your own pricing mechanism if you want something mildly resembling a chance at competing in a market that's as over-saturated as the video game market is.

2) is a completely subjective point, no input necessary, but

3) is not exactly subjective. If a veteran player were to come back because of the hype around Abyss Lord they are faced with two options: 1) buy the Abyss Lord for $15 and then play the same content that they were playing months ago with nothing new to it other than a lack of lane resistances, or 2) grind the same content that they were playing months ago with nothing new to it other than a lack of lane resistances for almost a MONTH (at a HARDCORE rate) to get the hero. People can disagree on whether or not $15 is a good price, but there's not a lot of disagreement available on the fact that the endgame of this game is a mindless grind for 1% shinier pants, and there hasn't been any content worth noting since Halloween. You can go to bat for the Harbinger update on that front, but that was a couple of re-skinned maps and a cheese-fest farming map, I don't count that as content unless you're trying to grind pet levels for some ungodly reason.

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@Sanzennin quote:

These are valid points to make, and some quite reasonable ones too. And as I said, whether its worth it or not depends on the person. Mainly, I'm just saying that the $15 dollars price isn't that ridiculous as some people would have you believe. In any case, I'll share some thoughts about your claims

1) Just because you can get a better deal for something, doesn't really mean everything should be priced according to that.

2) I agree, quality of the entertainment is an important factor. I still estimate I would get enough quality out of AL, but that's subjective. However, keeping track of the quality of fun is downright impossible, which is why most people pondering about issues pertaining to "worth it " or "not" generally dumb it down to amount of hours. It's still a good indicator, at least I am not in the habit of engaging in boring activities in order to be entertained, as that simply doesn't work.

3) Yes, this is subjective, and basically just the same as point 2)

Most of this stuff is pretty debatable and could go either way, though I'd argue point three is rather less subjective than your interpretation as it's a pretty objective analysis of how much buying the Abyss Lord actually impacts one's overall gameplay experience, as Scamp elaborated on.


As for point one though, absolutely disagree on every possible level.  You're asserting that producers and consumers should not account for competitor pricing/opportunity cost.  TheWittyScamp mentioned why that's absolutely horrible from a business perspective, but I think it's equally important to point out that it's horrible from a consumer's perspective.  Are you really arguing that we, the purchasers, shouldn't be shopping around to get the best deal for our money?

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

fact is I'm not spending any additional money for a game that is still supposedly in Alpha.

This is exactly my problem with this game. To be fair I would never spend $15 on a single skin in any game ever, (except for CSGO, at least there I can sell them again and even buy new games with the money) but especially not one which is in Alpha and is riddled with bugs and bad gameplay elements which get ignored in favor of more overpriced skins etc. 

Everyone who's buying these skins and spending tons of money this early are quite literally encouraging Trendy to focus on that rather than making the game good. I don't know whether Trendy is publicly traded or private but if they're public then afaik they have a responsibility to their shareholders to do whatever earns them the most money. This means that as long as people keep buying gems they will keep producing crap to spend them on rather than the things I want. Therefore I do not spend money on gems. 

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Unfortunately, [[22275,users]] , I think that's exactly the problem with a lot of free-to-play games. They become player-farm simulators that are only interested in the next premium currency item that will generate a quick revenue stream while the core game falls to shambles around the cash shop.

We see the writing on the wall, and hopefully Trendy does as well, because there are enough dead games in the F2P graveyard without adding one more, and one that I *want* to see do well. It's like Wildstar all over again or me.

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@TheWittyScamp @Shinnyshin

I feel you guys might've misunderstood what I meant on 1):Yes, you should absolutely take the market into account, but no, you don't need to look at the best deal and try to beat that. In fact, you quite often shouldn't, as this can lead to downwards spiral of the economical viability of your product, and the products of your competitors.
@Shinnyshin quote:

3) You're paying $15 to have more of the exact same grinding available another time.  Oh joy.  Maybe that's what gets you hot and bothered, but for me and literally every one of my RL friends whom I've played this game with?  No please, you can't make me oh god.  When the game keeps feeling an unpaid job, I seriously question whether investing hours means I'm having fun and getting my money's worth.

@TheWittyScamp quote:

3) Yes, this is subjective, and basically just the same as point 2)

3) is not exactly subjective. If a veteran player were to come back because of the hype around Abyss Lord they are faced with two options: 1) buy the Abyss Lord for $15 and then play the same content that they were playing months ago with nothing new to it other than a lack of lane resistances, or 2) grind the same content that they were playing months ago with nothing new to it other than a lack of lane resistances for almost a MONTH (at a HARDCORE rate) to get the hero. People can disagree on whether or not $15 is a good price, but there's not a lot of disagreement available on the fact that the endgame of this game is a mindless grind for 1% shinier pants, and there hasn't been any content worth noting since Halloween. You can go to bat for the Harbinger update on that front, but that was a couple of re-skinned maps and a cheese-fest farming map, I don't count that as content unless you're trying to grind pet levels for some ungodly reason.

The only objective part of that is "You're paying $15", the rest is subjective description of how the game feels like a grind, AL doesn't change anything, neither does the lack of lane resists or the ability to use all your heroes, and how the game basically feels like unpaid job. Which takes us back to 2) "The quality of the entertainment is poor".

"with nothing new to it other than a lack of lane resistances"

Well, to me, the "new" part would be: Abyss Lord. I feel this is the main thing in this update, the lack of lane resistances is just something that was served on the side. Y'know, Gates of Dragonfall with Squire + Monk is entirely different experience than Huntress + Apprentice, at least, it is for me.

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People are telling me that the Abyss Lord is so strong, this and that. That if I buy him, level him to 50, and get him "decent" gear, that I should be able to defeat the NM3 limbo in its present state.


I feel as if the moment I buy him, he'll be nerfed to bitty pieces and I won't be able to get my $@($ money back, so I'm wary and on the fence about spending on him. I -could-, but I'm -not-.

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