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Valnoor

Taking a more logical approach to the abyssal lord argument. Please share ideas.

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@TheWittyScamp quote:


@Pegazul quote:

I played league back when it was a tiny *** company with like 5 guys and the pricing was actually cheaper then. So yeah....

Ah, the days back when everyone was concerned that Blizzard was going to sue them into oblivion, when Ashe was like the only carry, and tanky DPS wasn't a thing. *wipes eyes* the good ol' days.

Lol yeah, i was playing dota 1 at the time and some people convinced me to try this indie moba called league of legends. Good ole days indeed. 

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It's not that "people want cheap things" or "F2P players are the scum of the earth, apparently". It's that, compared to other games on the market, this was an uncompetitive price to open with. That's the object. You can shake your cane at the unwashed peasants if it makes you feel better about yourself, but that doesn't change the fact that TE is missing out on players that, upon watching all of the changes, decided to pop back for a spell.... until they saw the attached price tag.

A ton of people have spent 70 USD on this "Pre-Alpha" or "Open Alpha" or "Whatever development stage you want to use to make excuses" game already, and now we're supposed to nod our heads and cheerily hand over 15 USD for a hero in a game that doesn't have anything worth sticking around for?

The point is that this was the last straw for a good number of players. The point is that Trendy had a chance to pull back in people, and attract new ones, and offer something to do while the Strategic Revamped gets... err... revamped. The point is that with their current pricing model, those chances are going to be largely missed because as an investment it's not competitively comparable to many competing games. Basically:


missing_point.jpg

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@Pegazul quote:Lol yeah, i was playing dota 1 at the time and some people convinced me to try this indie moba called league of legends. Good ole days indeed. 

That's how I got into it as well, but I quit it for DotA 2 as soon as Valve launched it with great speed and no shame. :P

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@Valnoor quote:


@DarkChuky quote:

Ok after reading a lot ... I will tell you the true.... all you guys are wrong and confused... they are not selling the Abyss lord for 15 USD..... you guys are Donating 15 USD to maintain the server, developers and the game... yes, you are Donating, is your decision to do it or to avoid it.... why? simple you can get it for free if you guys had played since the update you probably already know that if you want you can get it for free in like 2 or 3 days. Yesterday I farm gold all day and did 1000 of the new currency without any effort. It's already for free but seems like all you wants quality game without any investment on it. The salary of a single Developer can reach 5000 USD monthly are you guys are complaining for 15 USD. Go and farm, that is what you must do. Having it the first day with 15 USD will not make this game P4Win, don-t insult the DD2. as much you can call it early access... (one week early access???)

dude, max of 2k monthly and the farming u got was from dailies which you had 3 of, my main point is the grind, the price should be lower imho but it isnt what im mad about, its that i can play the new content for 1-2 months w/o paying, no emphasis on the paying part, pay attention to the 1-2 months part, i just want a shorter grind, not  no grind, not easy grind, just slightly more obtainable grind



@Woqini quote:

Holy crap, so many kiddies in this game. Yep, let's have everything for free, that way Trendy is out of business in no time. Pay for it or play without it. 

dammit dude fricking read, NOBODY WANTS IT TO COST NOTHING WE WANT IT TO COST LESS

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@Dan H quote:


@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:


@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:


@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:

Pricing is completely reasonable for a free to play game. 


why? this character takes weeks to get and the only alternative is $15. this is expensive by any standards and especially so for a game with so many problems, this game doesnt have enough people who are dedicated enough to pay this much. they would make less money a sale, yes, but they would make many more sales

How much did you pay for this game? 

nothing, and i will not pay until i feel like it will be worth paying, i would buy the character for $5-10 but at 15 i will not thus they make $0 instead of a smaller amount, this is my point it doesnt feel worth it to a lot of people 

How much did you pay for DD1?

What is your financial situation? Because if you wanna make this unprofessional we can talk about that. I want to play and enjoy this game to a point at which i feel comfortable enough to give money i currently cannot obtain. I dont want it free, i dont, i dont want the grind to be 30 minutes, i just want it to be obtainable for those of us who CANNOT pay. There is a reason many of us play free to play games. I am willing to give to a game that has made me feel like they deserve my money when i have it, but i cant play the full game for weeks. this was meant to bring in support for the game and all its done is push many away. There seems to be 3 sides of this argument, those who have the money to buy the character, those who want him for free, and those who want the character to be closer within our reach cause they cant pay. i support the last group. I dont understand why you keep bashing this. I have not seen one piece of evidence supporting irrefutably that abyssal lords implementation was beneficial for the majority of players.

"Those who can't pay" 

So all devs should make everything free in all games because some people can't afford it. 

Okay. 




I'm sorry my friend, but somethings in life just cant be free... I wish my house was free. That'd be cool. I can't pay for a Oculus Rift. So maybe I should be given one. That sounds fun. 


Also, devs don't need money to feed their families. No. Not at all.












Ok. :) 

ur arguments have supported nothing but the fact that you are a close minded moron. You can pay your garbage game and be happy but im gonna try to make it better. the game will fail unless it gets better and you are advocating for failure

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@Valnoor quote:


@drewg22 quote:

I don't find $15 unreasonable.

may i ask why, considering the cost of the previous characters in dd1 and that this was supposed to build up the playerbase?


Because $15 is a tiny amount of money for the time I will play the character.

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@Valnoor quote:


@In.Session quote:

3x cheaper than "a skin", I think its fair. as stated you can unlock it by playing casually over time, it will probably get cheaper as more heroes are implemented probably half the reason they have a cap on medals.

Casually? these missions require grinding for, they wont be getting easier, and if $15 is fair then why are so many getting upset, i agree with your cap statement though and i hope that the future characters will not be so time consuming to get

The vocal whiney minority tends to post more than any other group so while it may appear like "so many are upset" there are really not that many.

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Lets look at this from a different approach shall we?

@TheWittyScamp quote:

It's not that "people want cheap things" or "F2P players are the scum of the earth, apparently". It's that, compared to other games on the market, this was an uncompetitive price to open with. That's the object. You can shake your cane at the unwashed peasants if it makes you feel better about yourself, but that doesn't change the fact that TE is missing out on players that, upon watching all of the changes, decided to pop back for a spell.... until they saw the attached price tag.

A ton of people have spent 70 USD on this "Pre-Alpha" or "Open Alpha" or "Whatever development stage you want to use to make excuses" game already, and now we're supposed to nod our heads and cheerily hand over 15 USD for a hero in a game that doesn't have anything worth sticking around for?

The point is that this was the last straw for a good number of players. The point is that Trendy had a chance to pull back in people, and attract new ones, and offer something to do while the Strategic Revamped gets... err... revamped. The point is that with their current pricing model, those chances are going to be largely missed because as an investment it's not competitively comparable to many competing games. Basically:

So what you are saying is that while a ton of people have been happy to spend 70 USD on this game for NOTHING BUT COSMETIC STUFF, its completely unreasonable to pay 15 USD for the ability to skip a grind to get a whole new character, who in theory should add to the replayability of this game immensely.

Why, oh why do people complain so much. Having bought the character already, I can attest that it is immensely cool, fun to play, and based on the value scale of video games (I generally consider any less than 1 hour of gameplay per dollar spent unreasonable, and 5 hours or more per dollar to be pretty good value) this character is really good value. Hell, the fact is that if you buy this character, you are getting way more than just 1 character, it means you need to farm a whole lot less in order to get the next one, so as soon as series EV2 comes out, you have that one FOR FREE.

Everyone is complaining that the Abyss Lord is overpriced, but seriously, 15 dollars for an immense amount of gameplay is pretty good value, and free for a time investment, also pretty good.

And on the topic of non-competitive pricing, have you seen some of the prices for characters in games these days. In Warframe (An incredibly popular game atm), buying enough platinum for a single character could cost over $25, and farming the parts for a character in that game can take months as well.

Do some research before boldly stating that its an uncompetitive price or excessive grind.

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@SoulStealer64 quote:

Do some research before boldly stating that its an uncompetitive price or excessive grind.

FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION THAT, considering I have an entire thread that did a model analysis based on the the gems to Medals ratios of Lockbox keys and the Abyss Lord's current price.

But anyway, your argument fizzled out for me at the idea that buying the Abyss Lord > cosmetics. The main argument has been "Devs need to eat teh foods plz support u cheepskate". Plenty of people supported the game. There was no endgame. Those people left. Effectively charging them $15 to artificially create something to do for them, or a month of grinding the stuff that they got bored with and quit already, is uncompetitive and silly. I have no idea about the price model of Warframe, having never played it, but I have played all of the more popular MOBAs, several free games that got enough of a following to hit my (admittedly out of date) radar, and I purchase games that intrigue me enough to drop the cash upfront.

I stated it earlier but I find it a decent enough point: For the $15 to get the Abyss Lord on a game that has already seen plenty of money (a decent enough portion of which was for tower skins that aren't even released half a year or more after the fact *ahem* *ahem*), I could buy an entire plethora of other ENTIRE GAMES. In a traditional free to play game I could buy a lot more than a single character. You can disagree that the Abyss Lord's pricing makes sense, that's fine, but my main point is (and always has been if you feel like scrolling around and notice my name on stuff) that this was Trendy's chance to get old players back, but I know that there is a decent portion of those old players that won't come back to a month of grinding the crap that made them quit in the first place, and they're not going to drop $15 on a game that they quit for lack of compelling content to play.

Abyss Lord could have been a triage. Gearing out and playing a new character could have been a delaying mechanism while the Strategic Revamp goes through or more maps/difficulties were implemented, and I think that that chance was largely missed due to the pricing. I don't want him free, I don't even WANT him cheaper (because I'm already well aware that there's no f**king point grinding NM4 right now because if I could solo Ramps Inc before, now that there are no resistances and an absurdly strong new hero that I damn sure can solo everything still with an even easier time of it), I just recognize the potential and am making a point about it. You can call it complaining if you want, you can pay whatever you want, and I genuinely hope you enjoy the Abyss Lord if you bought him. As for me, the only things I'm logging on the game for are still helping friends gear, which has been the only reason for me to play for MONTHS. I'm gonna need more than a shiny new hero to make me want to actually play the game, but other people could have been easier to pull back in.

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@TheWittyScamp quote:

Abyss Lord could have been a triage. Gearing out and playing a new character could have been a delaying mechanism while the Strategic Revamp goes through or more maps/difficulties were implemented, and I think that that chance was largely missed due to the pricing. I don't want him free, I don't even WANT him cheaper (because I'm already well aware that there's no f**king point grinding NM4 right now because if I could solo Ramps Inc before, now that there are no resistances and an absurdly strong new hero that I damn sure can solo everything still with an even easier time of it), I just recognize the potential and am making a point about it. You can call it complaining if you want, you can pay whatever you want, and I genuinely hope you enjoy the Abyss Lord if you bought him. As for me, the only things I'm logging on the game for are still helping friends gear, which has been the only reason for me to play for MONTHS. I'm gonna need more than a shiny new hero to make me want to actually play the game, but other people could have been easier to pull back in.

I think that this is exactly what trendy intended, this hero is the "Triage" as you called it. Not only is there a new hero to gear and play, but you have something to work towards, getting said hero. On top of that, they have directly responded to player feedback, which was that "if we want something we should be able to farm it non-stop" which was the main complaint about Wyvern Tokens. Trendy is definately heading in the right direction with this update. If you don't want to play this game when there is still a whole hero to farm for and play, that's your prerogative

I do agree that Trendy needs to up the ante when it comes to end game, however, this new hero and the farm to get him him are exactly what the doctor ordered to tide us over in the mean time, and for those like me who are anxious to get the hero NOW, $15 isnt a bad price.

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@SoulStealer64 quote:If you don't want to play this game when there is still a whole hero to farm for and play, that's your prerogative

I do agree that Trendy needs to up the ante when it comes to end game, however, this new hero and the farm to get him him are exactly what the doctor ordered to tide us over in the mean time, and for those like me who are anxious to get the hero NOW, $15 isnt a bad price.

See, that's where we disagree, and that's fine. I don't think $15 is a decent price when the hero is effectively bait to bring players back, just like I don't think a month of grinding (which is the reason a bunch of people left in the first place, nothing to do endgame but grind for that 1% better passive) is a decent amount for the same reasons.

A triage shouldn't require a month of grinding or a full indie game and a Starbuck's latte on top of it as an entrance fee, because its purpose is to give people something to do in the meantime. The prospect of farming Medals for the hero is a lot more palatable if the amount of progress wasn't so bleak. The monthly amount is 1/6 of the total cost, and the highest-value Daily reward is 1/48 of the cost. That feels a bit too slow. The chance of getting Medals from winning maps is a fantastic addition, but based on the way difficulty scales in the game, You'd figure that map reward Medals would scale similarly. Your average NM4 map takes anywhere from 1/2 hour to an hour and your reward is 24-25 Medals, which is 1/480 of the hero cost. So 480 maps at the *best possible* value of 1/2 an hour per map is 240 hours of map playing, minus dailies and monthlies. Again, that seems too high to me, just like the gem cost also seems too high, *especially* on a "triage" addition for a dwindling player-base.

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@Valnoor quote:


@In.Session quote:

3x cheaper than "a skin", I think its fair. as stated you can unlock it by playing casually over time, it will probably get cheaper as more heroes are implemented probably half the reason they have a cap on medals.

Casually? these missions require grinding for, they wont be getting easier, and if $15 is fair then why are so many getting upset, i agree with your cap statement though and i hope that the future characters will not be so time consuming to get

Only because some people are upset doesnt means that they are right. 15€ is not cheap I grant you that, you can good games like Enter the Gungeon for less, but thats not how the pricing in a F2P game works. How many hours have you played so far without spending any money? I see it like this, how long can I be entertained by this hero, probably by another 100h or so, is this 15€ worth, I guess so. But I could also decide just to play the game and in a month or so I can get this (or the next hero) for ingame currencie. 


In the end this is all a subjective decision. For some it is worth spending their money on branded cloth, for others its their car, for us its our games. And if you want to apply logic to this subjectivity just estimate how long you will be entertained by buying this or that. 

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@Pegazul quote:


@Dan H quote:


@Pegazul quote:

Brand new league of legends champions are less than 8$ and are easier to farm for(and the game isn't buggy/dead).  

rable rable 

I played league back when it was a tiny *** company with like 5 guys and the pricing was actually cheaper then. So yeah....


Yup. Not going to take you seriously when you quote improperly with "rable rable".


@Pegazul quote:

giphy.gif


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@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:


@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:


@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:


@Valnoor quote:


@Dan H quote:

Pricing is completely reasonable for a free to play game. 


why? this character takes weeks to get and the only alternative is $15. this is expensive by any standards and especially so for a game with so many problems, this game doesnt have enough people who are dedicated enough to pay this much. they would make less money a sale, yes, but they would make many more sales

How much did you pay for this game? 

nothing, and i will not pay until i feel like it will be worth paying, i would buy the character for $5-10 but at 15 i will not thus they make $0 instead of a smaller amount, this is my point it doesnt feel worth it to a lot of people 

How much did you pay for DD1?

What is your financial situation? Because if you wanna make this unprofessional we can talk about that. I want to play and enjoy this game to a point at which i feel comfortable enough to give money i currently cannot obtain. I dont want it free, i dont, i dont want the grind to be 30 minutes, i just want it to be obtainable for those of us who CANNOT pay. There is a reason many of us play free to play games. I am willing to give to a game that has made me feel like they deserve my money when i have it, but i cant play the full game for weeks. this was meant to bring in support for the game and all its done is push many away. There seems to be 3 sides of this argument, those who have the money to buy the character, those who want him for free, and those who want the character to be closer within our reach cause they cant pay. i support the last group. I dont understand why you keep bashing this. I have not seen one piece of evidence supporting irrefutably that abyssal lords implementation was beneficial for the majority of players.

"Those who can't pay" 

So all devs should make everything free in all games because some people can't afford it. 

Okay. 




I'm sorry my friend, but somethings in life just cant be free... I wish my house was free. That'd be cool. I can't pay for a Oculus Rift. So maybe I should be given one. That sounds fun. 


Also, devs don't need money to feed their families. No. Not at all.












Ok. :) 

ur arguments have supported nothing but the fact that you are a close minded moron. You can pay your garbage game and be happy but im gonna try to make it better. the game will fail unless it gets better and you are advocating for failure

Ahhhh, that point where your argument is so invalid that you you begin trying to attack the person your arguing against and on top of that you can't even be bothered to use correct English :) :) :)

That's when you know you've got a truly solid argument! Go on buddy! I believe in you! Just keep on trucking and one day you'll make it :) :) :) 

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My question is this. "When do we expect him to be nerfed to the ground?"

Item Power: 42 - and i'm killing things on nightmare 2 as if i was geared for it.

[[10652,hashtags]] [[10653,hashtags]]

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