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Neophold

I feel disappointed in the devs, concerning the Abyssal Lord

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if you canfgiure it put yopucan hosty your own name server for dd1 so you can ps3 it or for the internet. ave the game comne to your server ip so your friends can update and  it to. i cant give out the details how to do it but me and my friends found a way so my ps3 gose to myname server for the game log and my friends in florida and all other connect to me with that update for ps3 dd1. over the internet.  trendy could have done this and moved it to the ps4 for better  upgardes and play but got to lazy. it took me and 4 guys less then a month to figure it out. what is trendy doing with 200 people and the name server cost me 10 dollars a month in elctric wich i glady pay for the dd1 game


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Same here.
Installed DD2, excited, to try new stuff... then i saw this absurd medal price. 
Now DD2 is deleted and im dissapointed. Its not even about $ price, 'cos i can easily afford it. But im not gonna play a GAME, when devs treat me, player, their customer, like that. "Throw me ur money or grind endlessly, nioch nioch". 

You're complaining about very, very small player base and for some this can be excuse to monetize content, but its other way - because of things like that, your player base is that small. 
And you lost another 2 players, me and my GF.

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Me and my buddy felt the same upon logging in and seeing the 12,000 medal requirement to get the new character.  


We don't play this game every single day so the thought of having to wait 3+ months to even touch the new content immediately put us off of ever playing again.  I believe we both said something along the lines of "12,000 medals? Okay how many do you get per win? 25 max? hmm.... yeah I all of a sudden don't feel like playing this any more.  Thought we'd be able to play the new character at least with in a few days.  Let's go play Divinity, still need to finish that before #2 releases."


Not to mention we'd need to delete a character to make room for the Abyss Lord, since as far as I could tell you were still limited to 4 characters and the only way to get another slot is to buy it with gems by itself or get the AL pack that has one.


We approach the game as a f2p title for something to do every once and awhile when we need a break from the other games we play.  So I can only give the perspective of our type of playerbase.... and it's to immediately exit the game and find something else to play.


And personally, I have reservations about spending some money on a game that refuses for whatever reason to drop their Alpha tag even after a year.

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@Injuis quote:

I remember getting a ton of stuff for $15 dollars in DD1.  I guess times have changed.

I also remember DD1 being pay-to-play. I guess people's memory capacity have also changed.

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@ZirzoR quote:

Another kid with no money that feels entitled to all the free things.


Get a job you hobo.

I hardly don't have any money, however, having to pay up-front either $20 for Gems or farm for a month feels like a ***ish move. Bloody hell, I could buy a cinema ticket and have enough money left over for takeout afterwards rather than throw It at virtual game which appears to be dying.

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@pAWHNSHOPpIMP quote:Work is not something I want in my games. Work is not fun, games should be fun. Can you deal with that?
@gigazelle quote:

From a new player's perspective who isn't nostalgic to Dungeon Defenders and is otherwise not committed to the game, "dealing with it" means not playing at all. And losing prospective/returning players to the Abyss Lord's paywall/playwall is a loss for everyone here.

If the game was fun, it wouldn't be work.

But the game hasn't been fun since they added loot.

I am dealing with it by not playing (and participating in discussions that guide design changes).  Trendy knows that a good two thirds of the people who play the game don't even finish campaign. So they know there's a retention problem because the game's not fun.

So what are you doing about it?

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@Luuin quote:

Me and my buddy felt the same upon logging in and seeing the 12,000 medal requirement to get the new character.  


We don't play this game every single day so the thought of having to wait 3+ months to even touch the new content immediately put us off of ever playing again.  I believe we both said something along the lines of "12,000 medals? Okay how many do you get per win? 25 max? hmm.... yeah I all of a sudden don't feel like playing this any more.  Thought we'd be able to play the new character at least with in a few days.  Let's go play Divinity, still need to finish that before #2 releases."


Not to mention we'd need to delete a character to make room for the Abyss Lord, since as far as I could tell you were still limited to 4 characters and the only way to get another slot is to buy it with gems by itself or get the AL pack that has one.


We approach the game as a f2p title for something to do every once and awhile when we need a break from the other games we play.  So I can only give the perspective of our type of playerbase.... and it's to immediately exit the game and find something else to play.


And personally, I have reservations about spending some money on a game that refuses for whatever reason to drop their Alpha tag even after a year.

They said beforehand you were supposed to get a slot with abyss lord. Unsure on medals as nobody could realistically have gotten it.


Ya I did the math and at 175 medals per daily(average) it would take 69 days without any maps played. If you add in maps played and maybe the monthly it would likely take 40-60 days or 300-600 maps.



@Draco18s quote:


@King of Sorrow quote:Well, in DD1, heroes didn't cost 15 dollars, for one.

Well, in DD1 the base game wasn't free...

or two, the free alternative is....2.8 months of grind! That, and (BIG SHOCKER) not everyone will be able to complete that monthly, setting them back another ~month and a half. Whoops.

It's not a 2.8 month grind.  Ignoring the monthly, just looking at the other sources:

  • Daily quests give 250, a whole month of dailies is 7500
  • Map completion gives 5-25 depending on difficulty.  There's a "super bonus" for playing 5 maps a day.  Assuming 10 medals per map, 5 maps a day, that's 1500.
  • Total: 9,000
That makes it a 1.33 month grind.
Add in the 2000 for a monthly, and that drops it down to 1.09 months.

Yes, it's a lot of work.

Deal_With_It_Sloth_Meme_05.jpg

No it's 100-250 so 175 average. So 5250 and lets say people decide to actually play every 2 days that is 750?

total: 6000  = 60 days

Add in the monthly then 45 days.


That is all including you have to motivation to play every 2 days to get a char 45-60 days away or a bit less if you play daily and do more. That is a lot of grinding. How long would it take  to do all that? I'm the guy with 600 hrs in Warframe in 45 days and 1000+ hrs in DD1 and even I think it's crazy. I am the .01% of game players and now try to get more casual players to want to do that.



@Draco18s quote:


@pAWHNSHOPpIMP quote:Work is not something I want in my games. Work is not fun, games should be fun. Can you deal with that?
@gigazelle quote:

From a new player's perspective who isn't nostalgic to Dungeon Defenders and is otherwise not committed to the game, "dealing with it" means not playing at all. And losing prospective/returning players to the Abyss Lord's paywall/playwall is a loss for everyone here.

If the game was fun, it wouldn't be work.

But the game hasn't been fun since they added loot.

I am dealing with it by not playing (and participating in discussions that guide design changes).  Trendy knows that a good two thirds of the people who play the game don't even finish campaign. So they know there's a retention problem because the game's not fun.

So what are you doing about it?

Also the fact connecting to servers have been ass even with reduced players. When me and a friend farmed carnival(by 16 we were both ready to go find a razor blade) we had  A LOT of issues connecting to each other, staying in party, game fully bugging out and having to reset to connect and time to connect being rather long sometimes.

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@Draco18s quote:


@King of Sorrow quote:Well, in DD1, heroes didn't cost 15 dollars, for one.

Well, in DD1 the base game wasn't free...

or two, the free alternative is....2.8 months of grind! That, and (BIG SHOCKER) not everyone will be able to complete that monthly, setting them back another ~month and a half. Whoops.

Filler just for his image macro


Deal_With_It_Sloth_Meme_05.jpg

I'm dealing with it by ignoring it. Gun Witch is about the only interesting thing coming out, IF it comes out!

Furthermore, I've got to DEAL with gearing what I've got. Even then, that's work, since waves take 50 years outside of normal.

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@King of Sorrow quote:

I'm dealing with it by ignoring it. Gun Witch is about the only interesting thing coming out, IF it comes out!

The Gun Witch will definitely be released eventually, we know that for a fact. But if she costs a chunk of defender medals/gems, we'll be in the exact same situation we're in right now with the Abyss Lord. People will come back, see that they can't play her, then leave once again.

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What about if they gave us the first new hero free but set the expectation that we need to pay for all future heroes?


ANy better?

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@AussieMark quote:

What about if they gave us the first new hero free but set the expectation that we need to pay for all future heroes?


ANy better?

That is just pushing this issue back till another update... They should rework the economy side of the game.

//Naki

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@AussieMark quote:

What about if they gave us the first new hero free but set the expectation that we need to pay for all future heroes?


ANy better?

Worse actually, in my view.  Because then the devs would be actively avoiding a much-needed resolution--that'd cause me to lose faith in the team pretty fast.

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A better solution would be for players to experience the feel of new heroes!
Like with the Carnival's Sneak-in option.
They could allow players to play a Practice mode with a new hero.  No loot, no XP.

This way people can get the feel of every new hero and make a conscious decision regarding buying it.

Or they can implement a refund option for 1 week.


Personally, I like the first idea!

//Naki

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@TheCrimsonTea quote:

Just consider it like an expansion to the DD1. Want the new hero TODAY? Buy it.
Want the hero but don't feel like playing? Play the game and you will eventually unlock it.
And as people have already said, if you keep enjoying the game you'll have enough medals for future heroes to unlock them on the first day they are released.

I'm not saying 12k isn't a bit on the too much side, but come on... Expect to freely unlock the new hero on the same day it was released is just 100% unrealistic, unless you are playing Dota 2 which has a player base of ... well much bigger.

Just feel like pointing out that Dota 2 is a really well designed game. DD2 is a game with a really good concept but really lacking in the whole design/development area. They call it an Alpha but really what they're doing is monetizing the *** out of it before they've even finished it. It's pretty obvious, looking at things like the new ipwr numbers being hidden behind the scroll bar, the autocollect filter dropdown having pretty much the same problem etc. New *** we can pay for always works perfectly, everything else is neglected. Wouldn't surprise me if Trendy whipped up a whole new expansion for their broken "early access" game soon. Come get it, only $49,99 or 12 years of grinding in this broken framework they call a game.


These things are supposed to come out once the game is done. I played DD2 when it was just released to the public. It was ***. Had like one map. I expected nothing more, it was very clearly stated when I bought it that this was an unfinished game. I just wanted to see where they were taking it and be able to check in once in a while because I figured it'd live up to its predecessor. Right now I feel like Trendy is just conning us. Using the Early Access excuse to milk their customers dry before they go bankrupt because everyone who isn't 12 has left ages ago. 

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I like this idea,

could even be in an armoury or just in the tavern to see if you like it first before buying

@NakiCoTony quote:

A better solution would be for players to experience the feel of new heroes!
Like with the Carnival's Sneak-in option.
They could allow players to play a Practice mode with a new hero.  No loot, no XP.

This way people can get the feel of every new hero and make a conscious decision regarding buying it.

Or they can implement a refund option for 1 week.


Personally, I like the first idea!

//Naki


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@Infernotez quote:

That is all including you have to motivation to play every 2 days to get a char 45-60 days away or a bit less if you play daily and do more. That is a lot of grinding. How long would it take  to do all that? I'm the guy with 600 hrs in Warframe in 45 days and 1000+ hrs in DD1 and even I think it's crazy. I am the .01% of game players and now try to get more casual players to want to do that.

In fact I think you'll find it's easier for a casual who has a life and doesn't burn himself out playing a game 14 hours a day.  You can go much longer playing just an hour or two per day, especially if you do it with friends.

Considering that you can reroll dailies and choose the best out of three options, the average medals per daily works out to 213.  According to a dev post the medals gained from a victory scale by difficulty, with NM4 giving around 25 per map.  The game is really easy right now, so even a casual player is probably able to get 15 medals per map.  Playing just two maps per day, this works out to 243 medals per day.  Add in the monthly and you get 12000 in 42 days, with maybe 40-50 hours of effort spent.  Seems pretty casual to me.  It's only if you go all out with grinding that it becomes grindy.

That being said, I think the cost could be reduced somewhat.  At 7000 medals the hero could be earned in about three weeks.  I also dislike how currently the medal cap is equal to the hero price, making it difficult to save for the next hero if you also want to buy spheres and other things for your existing heroes.

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@tdb quote:I also dislike how currently the medal cap is equal to the hero price, making it difficult to save for the next hero if you also want to buy spheres and other things for your existing heroes.

Oh me too.  And I thought that feedback was given, but apparently they want it that way.

There's also a cap on how many medals you can earn in a day (from map completion; daily and monthly don't count towards the limit) although it's pretty high, something like 2000.  It's mainly to stop exploits.

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I bought the Abyss Lord, and while doing some runs to work on some leveling up, I got over 300 yesterday alone and I only played for a few hours, and paid zero attention to my dailies.  Wtf are your morons talking about several months grind or 1000 matches.  I don't play that much per day and I could still get it in a week.   I think you guys either just like to complain, or just havent actually done any playing since the patch.

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@Draco18s quote:

There's also a cap on how many medals you can earn in a day (from map completion; daily and monthly don't count towards the limit) although it's pretty high, something like 2000.  It's mainly to stop exploits.

That's like 80 NM4 maps, even more on easier difficulties.  Is there even enough hours in a day to reach the cap without an exploit?  Can you join games when they are about to finish to get medals super fast?

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@Borisblade quote:

I bought the Abyss Lord, and while doing some runs to work on some leveling up, I got over 300 yesterday alone and I only played for a few hours, and paid zero attention to my dailies.  Wtf are your morons talking about several months grind or 1000 matches.  I don't play that much per day and I could still get it in a week.   I think you guys either just like to complain, or just havent actually done any playing since the patch.

Please let's keep it civil. 

 So You probably have done your daily. ~250 tokens but either way you said : 

I got over 300 yesterday alone"

12.000 / 300 = 40 day
- minus monthly-quest just for fun and that makes :
10.000 / 300 = 33,333333 to infinity and beyond days! :)

But I am the guy who sits on 15k gems and still won't buy AbyLordy for that price!

//Naki

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@Borisblade quote:

I bought the Abyss Lord, and while doing some runs to work on some leveling up, I got over 300 yesterday alone and I only played for a few hours, and paid zero attention to my dailies.  Wtf are your morons talking about several months grind or 1000 matches.  I don't play that much per day and I could still get it in a week.   I think you guys either just like to complain, or just havent actually done any playing since the patch.

yea its about 15 to 20 minutes a match or a little shorter it woukldd take more then 2 hours to reach 300 duh dont lie.. and also you paid cash for it wow its free to play gaqme i thought why we paying chas for a charcter thats free to play??

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the pay per match just encourages me to do the daily quest actually playing for 30 minutes to get 25 medals is not worth it also im 36 before you punks start to bully me like you did the op 

hes right this is not good all it does is encorage casual play or buying stuff one may be good for the games income but the other is not good for the games amount of players

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