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I feel disappointed in the devs, concerning the Abyssal Lord


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With the current average playerbase hovering around 3,000, It's relatively safe to say that the game Isn't very popular. It's a decent game, don't get me wrong, but the "Free" to Play aspect Is a bit muddy at the moment. 

With the 12000 Defender Medals required, and assuming you get 20 Every. Single. Time you win, plus assuming you only get 250 Quests and that your Monthly Is 2000, you still need to win roughly 400 Times to get there.

Now, realistically, that won't happen. Realistically, you're going to get between 5-10, get the worse quests, etc. At that rate, you're looking at around 1000 Victories.

I, personally, quit the game after logging in today. I looked at all the bull***, and I finally had enough and uninstalled. You're killing your game, I'm afraid.

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Gone are the days where every single expansion pack of every single game costed money. Gone are the days where F2P was an unknown concept. In DD1, all extra Heroes had to be bought. You couldn't even farm them with gameplay victories, you had to buy them with real monees.

Now, an era of self-entitled kids has begun, where people expect everything to be free and don't realize companies survive by making profit. An era where people think they should never have to pay for anything and get everything for free because... I dunno, they deserve it somehow?

Back in the days, you had to buy a CD Rom. It costed money. And the expansion pack? It costed money. The next expansion pack? It costed money. Oh you broke or lost your CD Rom accidentally? It costed money.


And we were happy.

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@Neophold quote:

With the current average playerbase hovering around 3,000, It's relatively safe to say that the game Isn't very popular. It's a decent game, don't get me wrong, but the "Free" to Play aspect Is a bit muddy at the moment. 

With the 12000 Defender Medals required, and assuming you get 20 Every. Single. Time you win, plus assuming you only get 250 Quests and that your Monthly Is 2000, you still need to win roughly 400 Times to get there.

Now, realistically, that won't happen. Realistically, you're going to get between 5-10, get the worse quests, etc. At that rate, you're looking at around 1000 Victories.

I, personally, quit the game after logging in today. I looked at all the bull***, and I finally had enough and uninstalled. You're killing your game, I'm afraid.

In dundef1 you had to buy classes, here if you just actively play you can unlock em for free.  Also the future classes will also cost medals which you can farm before they even come out so that unlike with abys lord you won't have to wait to play em.

If you honestly enjoy the game and just play it like you've always had you will get a free class so there really is nothing to complain about.

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Hmm, well, if you think a dev team works on a class like this for quite possibly months, alongside other features to accompany it, isn't it kind of silly to expect it for free or even without any hassle? You're free to buy the hero and support the game by doing so, but you should never think that you're entitled to get something freely or even easily for that matter.

If the game gave you everything for free, it wouldn't be fun. If you don't want to play the game but only have everything in the game, either pay up or stop whining and get to work.

Sorry man, but this game already offers you a load of content without spending a penny so to ask even more? Isn't that just too greedy?

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@Neophold quote:

Now, realistically, that won't happen. Realistically, you're going to get between 5-10, get the worse quests, etc. At that rate, you're looking at around 1000 Victories.

Defender Medals scale with difficulty. You should get around 25 medals per victory in Nightmare IV. Medals don't scale the whole 5-25 range.

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You bought all the heroes in DD1. People were happy. You have the chance to get them for free in a game that itself is entirely free. NOW YOU CHOSE TO COMPLAIN.



Okay logic. I give up on life. Kill me now. I dont understand anything. Is life a lie?


giphy.gif



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The Abyss Lord is massive fun to play, I'd say buy him you'll be very pleased you did.

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@Fozzie quote:

The Abyss Lord is massive fun to play, I'd say buy him you'll be very pleased you did.

Agreed. 

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Another kid with no money that feels entitled to all the free things.


Get a job you hobo.

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@ZirzoR quote:

Another kid with no money that feels entitled to all the free things.


Get a job you hobo.

+1

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@iamisom quote:


@Neophold quote:

Now, realistically, that won't happen. Realistically, you're going to get between 5-10, get the worse quests, etc. At that rate, you're looking at around 1000 Victories.

Defender Medals scale with difficulty. You should get around 25 medals per victory in Nightmare IV. Medals don't scale the whole 5-25 range.

For Nightmare IV isn't 25 a bit... low? I didn't get a chance to do a NM4 map just yet but I would have assumed that it would have given around 100, considering a single lockbox key cost's 500 medals.

Don't get me wrong, I think this update is a step in the right direction and I'm really digging the UI changes and the improved hero deck now. But I feel like the prices for hero passive's\keys\misc are blown out of proportion compared to what we can earn.

Another thing that I've mentioned several times since last year is the ability to get a full stack of 3 daily's per day instead of just 1. It's a shame that we still only get a single daily per day instead of being able to login and having a whole bunch of things to do. Just a bit of extra motivation to play.


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@VincentX3 quote:


@iamisom quote:


@Neophold quote:

Now, realistically, that won't happen. Realistically, you're going to get between 5-10, get the worse quests, etc. At that rate, you're looking at around 1000 Victories.

Defender Medals scale with difficulty. You should get around 25 medals per victory in Nightmare IV. Medals don't scale the whole 5-25 range.

For Nightmare IV isn't 25 a bit... low? I didn't get a chance to do a NM4 map just yet but I would have assumed that it would have given around 100, considering a single lockbox key cost's 500 medals.

Don't get me wrong, I think this update is a step in the right direction and I'm really digging the UI changes and the improved hero deck now. But I feel like the prices for hero passive's\keys\misc are blown out of proportion compared to what we can earn.

Another thing that I've mentioned several times since last year is the ability to get a full stack of 3 daily's per day instead of just 1. It's a shame that we still only get a single daily per day instead of being able to login and having a whole bunch of things to do. Just a bit of extra motivation to play.


I don't have the new content yet as the ps4 is lacking behind. It would be great to actually get 3 dailies... As for the price of things, I think all the skins are way over priced. I work hard for my money , I'd love to support this game with skin purchases but at those prices I will never buy a single one. 4800 gems for the new fire huntress, I could be wrong, but what's that $40+ for a fancy skin? That's a joke right? I mean this is supposed to be an "alpha" and I understand how a business works. I don't know maybe I'm wrong in thinking that if that same skin was $5 more folks would buy it.  /endrant

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i logged in today omg got to buy the new abyssal lord wtf i logged back out and uninstalled my game i wish my account be deleted form all the servers this game went from crapyy to dead. i loved dd1q on the ps3 and the ps4 version is worse. trenday lost me as a loyal fan and customer. free to play game means you dont need to pay to get a character.  its sad trendy s loseing its fan base casue they keep makeing  game that is going further down hill then forward. i had to deleet the ps4 version to i still got dd1 on the ps3 and i play with my friends online over the internet. on ps3 its not possible tyrendy was to lazy to have a name server up to host it

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I haven't played this game in months. The Abyss Lord made me want to come back to the game because it was something new. I love the game but got bored with the same 4 characters from before. I logged in so excited to try something finally "NEW" in this "NEW" game and imagine my disappointment when I found out my only options where to spend $15 or spend days and days grinding on characters I already am bored with.

I have already spent money on this game. I don't mind buying cosmetics. I don't mind the expensive price of them either. I'm not spending money on a character I'm not even sure I will like to play however. I logged out and I doubt I will ever be logging in again because you don't put paywalls on content and that is exactly what you just did.

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@Dan H quote:

You bought all the heroes in DD1. People were happy. You have the chance to get them for free in a game that itself is entirely free. NOW YOU CHOSE TO COMPLAIN.



Okay logic. I give up on life. Kill me now. I dont understand anything. Is life a lie?


giphy.gif



Well, in DD1, heroes didn't cost 15 dollars, for one.


For two, the free alternative is....2.8 months of grind! That, and (BIG SHOCKER) not everyone will be able to complete that monthly, setting them back another ~month and a half. Whoops.


It's a goy-ploy. Particularly with this monthly being as..eccentric as it is.

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Just consider it like an expansion to the DD1. Want the new hero TODAY? Buy it.
Want the hero but don't feel like playing? Play the game and you will eventually unlock it.
And as people have already said, if you keep enjoying the game you'll have enough medals for future heroes to unlock them on the first day they are released.

I'm not saying 12k isn't a bit on the too much side, but come on... Expect to freely unlock the new hero on the same day it was released is just 100% unrealistic, unless you are playing Dota 2 which has a player base of ... well much bigger.

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@Snowcat quote:

Gone are the days where every single expansion pack of every single game costed money. Gone are the days where F2P was an unknown concept. In DD1, all extra Heroes had to be bought. You couldn't even farm them with gameplay victories, you had to buy them with real monees.

Now, an era of self-entitled kids has begun, where people expect everything to be free and don't realize companies survive by making profit. An era where people think they should never have to pay for anything and get everything for free because... I dunno, they deserve it somehow?

Back in the days, you had to buy a CD Rom. It costed money. And the expansion pack? It costed money. The next expansion pack? It costed money. Oh you broke or lost your CD Rom accidentally? It costed money.


And we were happy.

new hero != expansion quality

those CD expansions you reference were so much more, take for example age of mythologys titan expansion (i forget the actual name) adding a new pantheon (terminology? its been so long) of gods (iirc there were three? ouranas, gaia and...? something else? chronos?) along with a full fledged single player campaign and new units, structures etc all added to the campaign creator


also you have to consider that the game is in alpha (expansion as a comparison doesnt quite fit when the game isnt even fully released yet) and other aspects of the game (costumes, bags, pets) also cost money (which is understandable; its a free to play game... but for pointing out how flawed your comparison is)


this is just a new hero, and compared with the pricing of DD1 heroes; expensive at that


i *might* have bought abyss lord straight up for gems if he had come along with those gameplay improvements, but the rest of the game is just so damn boring atm that im almost glad unlocking abyss lord with defender medals is something to do whilst i force myself to grind dailies/monthlies (half screen; catching up on TV series)


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DD1 was the opposite - if you were an active player while some DLC content was released, you were able to get it for free. I thought that was a genius way to do things, as no one ever felt left out when the new shiny stuff came out, and it drove a large amount of returning players to the game. If you were late to the party, you could spend $5 and get it as well.

I'm not worried about Trendy monetizing things - in fact, I'm personally more than willing to spend my gems on any content I find value in. However, I disagree with Trendy's decision to put the Abyss Lord behind a paywall/playwall. There was a huge opportunity to bring a lot of players back with this new hero, but since he's got either a $15 price tag or a 2-month grind attached to him, a lot of players are going to say "screw that" and not even bother. Their reasoning behind not bothering is perfectly justified too - there are thousands of other enjoyable games out there to occupy a player's time that don't have that $15 tag or 2-month grind.

The worst part is that this has in essence spoiled the announcement of new heroes from hereon out. If future heroes are also behind a similar paywall/playwall, it will have less and less an effect on convincing players to return. It's a nasty downward spiral of "This hero sounds neat but I haven't been playing to get defender medals so I guess I won't play at all", repeating after every hero that's introduced.

While I'm sure the Abyss Lord will make Trendy loadsamoney over the next several weeks, the long-term effect of monetizing heroes will be quite apparent in the long run.

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Well this is a first a new character releasing which is making people quit, is the Abyss Lord Sharken or something?

To be fair i'm not a fan of F2P and much preferred DD1 in just buying the game and having eveything I wanted all in one package. However I think Trendy's model isn't that bad, everything essential can be earned through dedication. Game is still pay for power though until hero slots are earned with defender medals which is thankfully coming.

If you are a loyal fan of Dungeon Defenders then you wouldn't be quitting the game over this. You need to be like me taking a break from the game and letting them know how stupid some of the things in the game currently are, just because you want the product improved.

I don't care if I hurt anyone feelings, I'm not going to white knight anything which I feel is unacceptable. The Hero Deck was one of these things and now it's been addressed. Constructive criticism is alot better than people kissing Trendy's ass and telling them they have a flawless game when they really don't.

This has to be one of the stupidest reasons to quit the game. The Abyss lord is the first new character to be released, they don't have the data to successfully tweak a reasonable rate of defender medals to acquire him. This guy is going to be the bench mark of future dlc characters.

To quit when DD2 is starting to go in the right direction is beyond stupid. You should of quit before this update when we had the crap you call the hero deck and such a boring ass meta.

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@gigazelle quote:There was a huge opportunity to bring a lot of players back with this new hero, but since he's got either a $15 price tag or a 2-month grind attached to him, a lot of players are going to say "screw that" and not even bother. Their reasoning behind not bothering is perfectly justified too - there are thousands of other enjoyable games out there to occupy a player's time that don't have that $15 tag or 2-month grind.

This. This. This. This. This.

No matter how much this odd little clique in this thread continues to pat each other on the back and high-five, the criticism at its core remains valid. A fatigued endgame player that was interested in the changes enough to come back after a hiatus shouldn't be expected to pay the price tag of a full game like Bastion upfront for a character they might not like, or go right back to the grinding that likely turned them off of the game in the first place.

Buying a new hero isn't inherently a bad idea, but in this specific instance, attached to the removal of lane resistances and deck changes, there was a chance to give a nice shiny coat of polish to a game that many have had on a shelf collecting dust, and the opportunity was probably lost for a sizeable portion of that crowd.

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@Dan H quote:

You bought all the heroes in DD1. People were happy. You have the chance to get them for free in a game that itself is entirely free. NOW YOU CHOSE TO COMPLAIN.



Okay logic. I give up on life. Kill me now. I dont understand anything. Is life a lie?


giphy.gif



Paying $4 or less was acceptable in DD1, but for DD2 an unfinished game it's not worth $15. Now you might say go grind 600 maps or say you get all the other stuff 300 maps that is 300 maps when 25 maps for a monthly makes me wince. I still have 12k gems leftover from Defense Council and I would not spend 1500 on a character I am only moderately interested in.


@iamisom quote:


@Neophold quote:

Now, realistically, that won't happen. Realistically, you're going to get between 5-10, get the worse quests, etc. At that rate, you're looking at around 1000 Victories.

Defender Medals scale with difficulty. You should get around 25 medals per victory in Nightmare IV. Medals don't scale the whole 5-25 range.

The problem is you don't have the content to make that many plays worthwhile. I am already bored playing 1 map when my choices are grind, grind or grind. After my loot I had pre loot change patch became worthless  and we were struggling to get into NM4 which is largely boring even then. The costs make a Defense Councilor with gems leftover not want to even play. I am unsure if the cost was 6k if I would even care enough to grind it.

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@King of Sorrow quote:Well, in DD1, heroes didn't cost 15 dollars, for one.

Well, in DD1 the base game wasn't free...

or two, the free alternative is....2.8 months of grind! That, and (BIG SHOCKER) not everyone will be able to complete that monthly, setting them back another ~month and a half. Whoops.

It's not a 2.8 month grind.  Ignoring the monthly, just looking at the other sources:

  • Daily quests give 250, a whole month of dailies is 7500
  • Map completion gives 5-25 depending on difficulty.  There's a "super bonus" for playing 5 maps a day.  Assuming 10 medals per map, 5 maps a day, that's 1500.
  • Total: 9,000
That makes it a 1.33 month grind.
Add in the 2000 for a monthly, and that drops it down to 1.09 months.

Yes, it's a lot of work.

Deal_With_It_Sloth_Meme_05.jpg

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@Draco18s quote:


@King of Sorrow quote:Well, in DD1, heroes didn't cost 15 dollars, for one.

Well, in DD1 the base game wasn't free...

or two, the free alternative is....2.8 months of grind! That, and (BIG SHOCKER) not everyone will be able to complete that monthly, setting them back another ~month and a half. Whoops.

It's not a 2.8 month grind.  Ignoring the monthly, just looking at the other sources:

  • Daily quests give 250, a whole month of dailies is 7500
  • Map completion gives 5-25 depending on difficulty.  There's a "super bonus" for playing 5 maps a day.  Assuming 10 medals per map, 5 maps a day, that's 1500.
  • Total: 9,000
That makes it a 1.33 month grind.
Add in the 2000 for a monthly, and that drops it down to 1.09 months.

Yes, it's a lot of work.

Deal_With_It_Sloth_Meme_05.jpg

Work is not something I want in my games. Work is not fun, games should be fun. Can you deal with that?

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@pAWHNSHOPpIMP quote:

Work is not something I want in my games. Work is not fun, games should be fun. Can you deal with that?

Have you been living under a rock? My friend, you are going to be in for one HELL of a surprise...

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From a new player's perspective who isn't nostalgic to Dungeon Defenders and is otherwise not committed to the game, "dealing with it" means not playing at all. And losing prospective/returning players to the Abyss Lord's paywall/playwall is a loss for everyone here.

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