I'm officially done with DD and Trendynet in general.

After having read this article and this article, both published today highlighting the lawsuit Trendynet has filed against Wildcard, I am just done with the support of you people. Specifically after the manner in which ya'll forced Jeremy in to resignation. Noncompete my ass for starters. You people ran your own games in to the ground and as a result developers as well and now you want to try a cash grab? It's blatant bull*** and I hope this idiotic lawsuit gets thrown out and Trendynet goes bankrupt.

I'm done supporting you

W/e they even win in damages, will make more damage than good. Even if they are in the right of this.

Such a damn stupid move from a PR perspective....

"Small indy dev studio desperate for sales, goes against one of the biggest indy hits of 2015". 

Doesn't take a genius to figure out how this will affect Trendy....

Forgive me if I sound slightly ignorant on the subject, but according to the first article (which I may have misread, so please correct me if I'm wrong) there was a contract that was breached? And the attempt at poaching employees? 

Now I don't know what all happened, and if there's some pretty straight forward info I'm missing, I'd be glad to reverse my thoughts, but shouldn't this swing in Trendy's favor, due to you know.. breaching a contract and trying to poach employees which is a very big no-no?

@Tristaris quote:

Forgive me if I sound slightly ignorant on the subject, but according to the first article (which I may have misread, so please correct me if I'm wrong) there was a contract that was breached? And the attempt at poaching employees? 

Now I don't know what all happened, and if there's some pretty straight forward info I'm missing, I'd be glad to reverse my thoughts, but shouldn't this swing in Trendy's favor, due to you know.. breaching a contract and trying to poach employees which is a very big no-no?

Yup, they might be 100% in the right at this. But it will not help Trendy as a company when it comes to public relations. 
No matter how this turns out, it will not be positive for DD2.

Maybe they are obligated to do this, I'm not a lawyer, but it just seems like a bad PR move to me. 

(When I say PR move, I do not mean as in they are aiming for PR publicity, just that I mean it is a bad situation for Trendy overall)

Oh, yeah I just wasn't sure exactly what the deal was or what was going on was all. 

Thanks for the clarification!

Honestly the guy broke his contract agreement. So...Lawsuit is valid and it's trendy's choice to do it. So to me, Trendy hasnt done anything wrong except take action against an ex-employee that neglected a reduced non-compete agreement.

//Maybe they are obligated to do this, I'm not a lawyer//

That's where your post should have ended. I don't mean to sound like a jerk about it, but there's a good bit going on under the hood here.

Sincerely, bar-licensed attorney in two states.

@TheWittyScamp quote:

//Maybe they are obligated to do this, I'm not a lawyer//

That's where your post should have ended. I don't mean to sound like a jerk about it, but there's a good bit going on under the hood here.

Sincerely, bar-licensed attorney in two states.

All I wanted to convey is that situations like this does not leave a good impression with gamers. 

The fan base of ARK is way bigger than DD2's atm and it's a *** storm waiting to happen. 

I'm not pretending to be an expert at this, I just wanted to say what I fear this whole situation will spin into.

On the internet you are guilty until proven innocent. And in things like this Trendy is the aggressor, and it will not impact DD2 in any positive way at all. 

@PandynatorDD quote:

@TheWittyScamp quote:

//Maybe they are obligated to do this, I'm not a lawyer//

That's where your post should have ended. I don't mean to sound like a jerk about it, but there's a good bit going on under the hood here.

Sincerely, bar-licensed attorney in two states.

All I wanted to convey is that situations like this does not leave a good impression with gamers. 

The fan base of ARK is way bigger than DD2's atm and it's a *** storm waiting to happen. 

I'm not pretending to be an expert at this, I just wanted to say what I fear this whole situation will spin into.

On the internet you are guilty until proven innocent. And in things like this Trendy is the aggressor, and it will not impact DD2 in any positive way at all. 

I don't understand the logic both you and the OP are using. It is bad PR because they're going after a company that happens to be indie? So if they were EA, would you not have an issue? The man signed a contract and they agreed to reduce the pertinent clause by a factor of 3, and yet he may have potentially broken that. I think it's reasonable to await some more information.

I suppose at least the OP raises issues with the way Jeremy had to leave, so perhaps there is something to that, but that is where it ends. For now.

@BestProfileName quote:

@PandynatorDD quote:

@TheWittyScamp quote:

//Maybe they are obligated to do this, I'm not a lawyer//

That's where your post should have ended. I don't mean to sound like a jerk about it, but there's a good bit going on under the hood here.

Sincerely, bar-licensed attorney in two states.

All I wanted to convey is that situations like this does not leave a good impression with gamers. 

The fan base of ARK is way bigger than DD2's atm and it's a *** storm waiting to happen. 

I'm not pretending to be an expert at this, I just wanted to say what I fear this whole situation will spin into.

On the internet you are guilty until proven innocent. And in things like this Trendy is the aggressor, and it will not impact DD2 in any positive way at all. 

I don't understand the logic both you and the OP are using. It is bad PR because they're going after a company that happens to be indie? So if they were EA, would you not have an issue? The man signed a contract and they agreed to reduce the pertinent clause by a factor of 3, and yet he may have potentially broken that. I think it's reasonable to await some more information.

I suppose at least the OP raises issues with the way Jeremy had to leave, so perhaps there is something to that, but that is where it ends. For now.

I do not have a issue with Trendy's actions. Only thing I am worried about is the gaming communities irrational reactions to this. Will this lawsuit make "ARK fans" want to play or even try DD2? I think not. So it is bad PR. Not that much magic behind it.

Trendy has gotten bad PR in the past. Will the average consumer believe a 2k average indy studio over one of the biggest indie hits in 2015? 

They are both indie studios.. 

But one has a better record in the public than the other. So people draw to conclusions. 

And yes, size and reputation matters. Does it need to be true and factual to influence the casual Joe? No, it does not. 

Have you really never avoided a product you have heard others talked bad about? 

Hey guys! Moved to off-topic, since thread is not directly related to Dungeon Defenders 2.

This isn't about products, this is about contracts and torts. Unless I read the contracts when they're public documents through the discovery process, then not even I have any reason to speculate. What I will say is that both violation of contract and third-party tortious interference are completely legitimate claims filed hundred of times per day in the U.S.

If an employee signs an employment contract with stipulations (read: most actual employment contracts), then violates those even after they're no longer an employee, the company has a claim. If the person didn't violate a contract, then the defendants here should have relative ease proving their side of the contract dispute.

Who gives a sh** what this does for PR? Contracts aren't designed with the public's feelings in mind, so they're about as relevant to this dispute as my feelings on American beer are to my mortgage rates.

If I recall correctly, this is not the first time Jeremy has fallen into disrepute. He was spotlighted for gender discriminatory hiring and pay, and now he's trying to poach former employees and breaching contracts? I have absolutely no sympathy for the guy, and TE should absolutely file suits against him.

Jeremy Stieglitz... he has played a devil's role all the time. So many bad decisions made by this guy. If he was still under contract of TE he obviously isn't allowed to work for another studio, not even in his free-time as in he could moved over ideas and business solutions to the other studio. Industrial spying. It doesn't even matter if he got paid or not. Any player with common sense will agree. You violate a contract, you get a claim for that. Nothing unexpected, you don't think so?

The population of the games has nothing to do with filling a law suit. But if you (Alabama) want to move on, then its a questionable decision by your own even though it does not make any sense. I still play both games. Law suits like that are happening very often. Most likely the leak is caused by Jeremy itself, to exactly cause such kind of reactions. You fell on the trap.

@Ryrion quote:

If I recall correctly, this is not the first time Jeremy has fallen into disrepute. He was spotlighted for gender discriminatory hiring and pay, and now he's trying to poach former employees and breaching contracts? I have absolutely no sympathy for the guy, and TE should absolutely file suits against him.

Exactly, it's called karma.

This is the guy that wanted to over sexualize an underage character with the Huntress and make EVE more sexy, wtf?

Not to mention he wanted to Copy league of Legends in every single way and that's why we were orignally stuck with the train wreck which was the MOBA. Which put the game we all wanted way behind schedule. You can still see his influences on this current version of DD2 it's nice to see things are starting to get on track again.

It's certainty an interesting read and I'm curious to see what the result is going to be. Good PR or bad PR, who knows?

@TheWittyScamp quote:

Who gives a sh** what this does for PR? Contracts aren't designed with the public's feelings in mind, so they're about as relevant to this dispute as my feelings on American beer are to my mortgage rates.

Contracts aren't designed to be news for gaming journalists either but that's what it's become thanks to the internet. 

I think if you have been around long enough to have an idea as to what kind of things Jeremy did you wouldn't feel bad for him. He is a huge perv, a sexist, and just a ***ty guy to work with and if you violate a contract than its your own fault. Jeremy should of known better than to do what he did and other companies should know better than to hire some one who is still under contract with another company. 

Well if the Ark servers go down, can be sure as hell the DD2 servers and website will probably follow, we are in the a dark error of DDOS where gamers have points to prove and ways to enforce it. it's disgusting really but in the end nobody wins. best thing they can do is leave wildcard and go straight after the Stig :P even then it seems pointless since his contract should of expired august lastyear and the lawsuits going now with no real similar features or mechanics in either game.

@In.Session quote:

even then it seems pointless since his contract should of expired august lastyear and the lawsuits going now with no real similar features or mechanics in either game.

The problem is we don't have all the details on the contract. This is why the courts are involved and both gaming communities should wait and see what happens instead of printing off their recently acquired lawyers degree.

Whatever the contract may say, it's still a ***ty move for Trendy to drag other games down with them just because they've ruined their own franchise.

@Folly quote:

Whatever the contract may say, it's still a ***ty move for Trendy to drag other games down with them just because they've ruined their own franchise.

*rolls eyes*

Yeah, contract law is all about the post hoc collateral potential, not a MUTUAL agreement. If the dude didn't want to be bound, he should have negotiated different terms or followed the ones he signed on to.

But yeah, TE should totally forfeit their contractual remedy enforceable in a court because some random person on the internet thinks it's "***ty" to do so. This sort of thing happens between rival companies literally every day, and acting like the company enforcing the contract that was signed by both parties is the "bad" party is completely ignorant. It's UNFORTUNATE that there may be collateral damage to a third party game as a result of a civil lawsuit, but there does not exist a set of circumstances where I would say that a voluntary employment contract's non-compete agreement shouldn't be enforceable by the company.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'm a big fan of intellectual property and the validity of voluntary contracts as a means to settle disputes. Apparently the whining children that have overtaken the most recent Steam reviews don't share that opinion, but everyone has the right to be petulant and incorrect.

@Argick quote:The problem is we don't have all the details on the contract. This is why the courts are involved and both gaming communities should wait and see what happens instead of printing off their recently acquired lawyers degree.

It wasn't that recent, and I didn't have to print it myself! :P

Folly you would be a failed business with your attitude, that Jason guy has been a problem for years and he broke contract pretty logical if someone does that what to do. Happens everyday when people break contracts, I applaud Trendy for not being walk over.  And honestly most people on here ***ing about "ill never support or play dd again" is BS you will, so be quiet please, this topic is annoyingly lame now. Hopefully, Trendy will get a huge sum of money to put into the game and Ark can learn a lesson to stay clear of that person that cannot seem to stay away from trouble :)

@Folly quote:

Whatever the contract may say, it's still a ***ty move for Trendy to drag other games down with them just because they've ruined their own franchise.

Having a legal right to do something does not make it the right thing to do. Other companies doing it does not make it right either.

Trendy is shutting down a game that a lot of people enjoy, to support a game that a lot of people are disappointed in. Or more likely, to pad their own wallets. Either way, the only way these actions are justifiable is legally.

@Folly quote:

Trendy is shutting down a game that a lot of people enjoy, to support a game that a lot of people are disappointed in. Or more likely, to pad their own wallets. Either way, the only way these actions are justifiable is legally.

Where did you get that they are shutting down anything? They are taking the studio to court for a justifiable claim. The entity they are suing is to blame, and if they have to shut ANYthing down it's THEIR fault, not Trendy's. You think it's ok to violate a contract, but say, "Oh no, you can't sue for what I did even though it was illegal because I'll lose money or lose something. And you'll upset the players of my gaaaaame!" Should have thought of that before violating a contract.

It's not ok to have a signed contract violated - multiple times - by the same jackass and then do nothing about it. *That* would not be justifiable - and would be a PR nightmare, because then everyone would know that TE's contracts will not be enforced and therefore are not worth the paper they're printed on. 

It has nothing to do with you, me, or how many players each game has. That Jeremy person pretty much thumbed his nose at Trendy while he knowingly walked all over them and the contract he signed - more than once. He, and the studio that helped him do it, deserve everything they get.