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TMyth

Giant lightning auras like back in dd1

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Is this ever gonna happen? I would love to see giant auras for all of them like back in dd1, would be absolutely fun to see a lightning aura cover the entire map of dragon fall gates.

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That was mainly in open with the god items. Although that would be cool it would also be to overpowered. I never saw that happen in ranked and I played rank for a good bit enough to get to level 73 as Apprentice. I played mainly in open before that and saw a lot of those kind of auras. Never once in ranked

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I've played with friends who have level 100s and auras that are as big as say, foundries and forges, the first mission, and probably bigger than most you've seen that are legit cause I only played ranked, it was absolutely awesome and one of the coolest things in the game, but it may not be as compatible, that was more of a question for someone from trendy to answer. If it's not in the game there's probably reasoning behind it.

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@TMyth quote:

I've played with friends who have level 100s and auras that are as big as say, foundries and forges, the first mission, and probably bigger than most you've seen that are legit cause I only played ranked, it was absolutely awesome and one of the coolest things in the game, but it may not be as compatible, that was more of a question for someone from trendy to answer. If it's not in the game there's probably reasoning behind it.

I hate to break it to you but ranked isn't secure at all... Last time I joined a public ranked game there was someone with a +4 projectile 10 shot per second hyper rifle, and then his friend joined with a generic crossbow with 120 shots per second... Almost froze my game before he dced himself...

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I would LOVE to see defense range be astronomically big, but we'd want to make sure it doesn't completely obliterate defense balance.

Personally I'd really like to see defense range and defense attack rate have an inverse relationship with each other. For example if an aura is twice as big as normal, it attacks half as fast. And if an aura is half as big as normal, it attacks twice as fast. This would create an interesting dynamic where you could either maximize the utility of a defense using a ton of range, or maximize the damage output of a defense by minimizing the range.

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I think this would bring a lot of fun into the game but it may not be suitable for the current map design.

As long as we don't know what will be revamped... anything is possible.

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The current map designs are terrible. Huge auras would be nice but they wold but completely useless because you have small lanes and all lanes lead right to a central crystal. No big open areas where you could actually make use of them. Tower range and speed not being a basic stat on gear really ruins the DD feel for me. DD1 was over the top and that was what made it fun. DD2 there gives no visual sense of progression and all the mechanics are for the most part terrible with the exception of a few.  Everything is essentially dumb down for casuals.

Most people from DD1 would love to see Tower range and speed brought back as they made it visually appealing and awe inspiring. But because when they originally had them in DD2 they were broken beyond belief because people could just perma lock every lane with geysers and had stupidly fast ballistas even at low levels and because of that instead of trying to fix them and recoding how speed scaled and how geysers worked they just straight up removed them which was just a shame.

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I was one of those people who had perma-stun geysers; in fact, after a certain point you didn't even need the electric aura stun with the right gear. By the time the enemy landed on the ground after being knocked up, the geyser trap had already reset. 

The trouble with making attack speed and range stats on gear is that they can only go up. If attack rate continued on its path, we'd end up with every defense in the game triggering many times a second, just like DD1. Defenses that attack that fast in essence cover their own weaknesses, which goes directly against the model that Trendy is working towards. If they scaled back attack rate, we wouldn't have the visual progression or satisfaction of watching our defenses fire faster. It's a paradox, and it is why Trendy removed attack speed entirely.

I really hope they opt to reimplement it, just not as a stat. With the gambit method, you could visually see your attack rate or range improve, but it would not completely destroy the balance of the game since there would be give and take involved. I'd also really like to see defense range get a lot more increase per upgrade; perhaps make it worthwhile to have the choice between maxing out a few defenses vs. filling up your DU first.

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@Arcflare quote:

The current map designs are terrible. Huge auras would be nice but they wold but completely useless because you have small lanes and all lanes lead right to a central crystal. No big open areas where you could actually make use of them. Tower range and speed not being a basic stat on gear really ruins the DD feel for me. DD1 was over the top and that was what made it fun. DD2 there gives no visual sense of progression and all the mechanics are for the most part terrible with the exception of a few.  Everything is essentially dumb down for casuals.

Most people from DD1 would love to see Tower range and speed brought back as they made it visually appealing and awe inspiring. But because when they originally had them in DD2 they were broken beyond belief because people could just perma lock every lane with geysers and had stupidly fast ballistas even at low levels and because of that instead of trying to fix them and recoding how speed scaled and how geysers worked they just straight up removed them which was just a shame.

That really is a lot of the reason behind the speed aspect, I loved seeing rapid fire harpoons, and I loved seeing the long range, auras and harpoons were my favorite thing to see, one being a globe the size of the earth and then a steady stream of harpoons launching across the map, made me have a sense of accomplishment.

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I wasn't a huge DD1 player but stlll familiar with what you desribed. Would you be against a concept of diminishing returns? Because if I recall the range and speed did get farking ridiculous to the point of normal point game breaking.  There are limited range/speed character based point based buff but yeah I think they could be improved on.  Not totally sure about this, as I think most towers have good range/speed built into the equation as designed. That part does seem thought out mostly lol (except for earth jk).

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@gigazelle quote:

I was one of those people who had perma-stun geysers; in fact, after a certain point you didn't even need the electric aura stun with the right gear. By the time the enemy landed on the ground after being knocked up, the geyser trap had already reset. 

The trouble with making attack speed and range stats on gear is that they can only go up. If attack rate continued on its path, we'd end up with every defense in the game triggering many times a second, just like DD1. Defenses that attack that fast in essence cover their own weaknesses, which goes directly against the model that Trendy is working towards. If they scaled back attack rate, we wouldn't have the visual progression or satisfaction of watching our defenses fire faster. It's a paradox, and it is why Trendy removed attack speed entirely.

I really hope they opt to reimplement it, just not as a stat. With the gambit method, you could visually see your attack rate or range improve, but it would not completely destroy the balance of the game since there would be give and take involved. I'd also really like to see defense range get a lot more increase per upgrade; perhaps make it worthwhile to have the choice between maxing out a few defenses vs. filling up your DU first.

Theres a very simple way around that and make it so perma locks cant happen. This can easily be achieved by making it so after each lock make a target immune for a few seconds after. Adding back speed and range as a basic stat would give more build options and experiment more and  would allow them to increase the base difficulty across the board. Theres lots of things they can do to balance out the speed and range but they decided to take the lazy route and just remove them all together as a basic stat.

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@Berrule quote:

I wasn't a huge DD1 player but stlll familiar with what you desribed. Would you be against a concept of diminishing returns? Because if I recall the range and speed did get farking ridiculous to the point of normal point game breaking.  There are limited range/speed character based point based buff but yeah I think they could be improved on.  Not totally sure about this, as I think most towers have good range/speed built into the equation as designed. That part does seem thought out mostly lol (except for earth jk).

I would personally be against the concept of diminishing returns, as 1) that implies that range/attack rate is a stat; and 2) we'd eventually get to a point where attack rate and range are "good enough" and spend our remaining points in tower damage. Everyone would end up with roughly the same range and attack rate, and DPS would be solely dependent on the tower damage stat once again.


@Arcflare quote:

Theres a very simple way around that and make it so perma locks cant happen. This can easily be achieved by making it so after each lock make a target immune for a few seconds after. Adding back speed and range as a basic stat would give more build options and experiment more and  would allow them to increase the base difficulty across the board. Theres lots of things they can do to balance out the speed and range but they decided to take the lazy route and just remove them all together as a basic stat.

Yes I do agree that removing it entirely wasn't the most optimal way to address it, but I think there's some merit behind it.

The slide that Trendy showed us during their last devstream outlined the aspect of giving towers specific strengths and weaknesses. Take for instance a cannon: its strength is single-target DPS, but its weakness is the inability to handle large groups of enemies. If attack rate was still a stat, we'd eventually reach a point where a cannon could fire fast enough to cover its own weakness, and that is something that I am not a fan of. Additionally, it will make defense balance VERY difficult in the long run.

Now, if attack rate and range had an inverse relationship with each other, defenses would still have weaknesses, but you'd be changing what those weaknesses are. Long-range cannons would fire slower, but we able to pick off targets a lot sooner; Short-range cannons would not be able to deal with ranged units but they would obliterate anything up close being rapid-fire.

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