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Problems with End Game (NM4) as I see them.

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Hi everyone, 

Just to get started I would like to say that, though I am no hardcore player, I am relatively experienced with a total of 362 hours played. I play entirely solo, and therefore I am aware that I do not use cookie cutter builds and have a limited learning curve as I am not complementing what I learn with what others can teach me via multiplayer.

I do not run the standard waller, trapper, apprentice slower and ranged dpser, as I just loved the squire tower dps style too much and wanted to progress down that route. I am aware that as a result my progression would be harder then if I took the path of least resistance with a cookie cutter build.

My build is: squire waller/tower physical dps (my walls are weaker, my towers have more hp but less dps), apprentice tower magic dps, monk aura buffer (stronger dps towers/walls, AOE dps from healing aura) and finally squire tank/dpser. 

So you hardcore fans, are probably thinking, well this fool needs to play a legit setup first! But I would like to say that, I think there needs to be room for any build setup, and furthermore some of my issues with the game are not even related to my "nerfed" build/setup.

I have been able to clear NM4 ipwr 800 and 900 maps for a while now, however recently I completed my first ever NM4 1000 ipwr map (throne room) and I have to say, it took some luck!

So here is my breakdown of issues with the game:


Elemental/physical combo lanes. With a limited number of buildings, being able to combat these lanes is impossible without traps. One simply has to reroll the map (restart it) until one gets the easiest combination, this is not a fun process.

Mini Bosses:

Ogre leap appears to be proc'ed mainly by being within melee range of the ogre with a hero, this in itself is anti melee.

Ogre leaps, the radius and damage of this ability is just simply to powerful, any tower behind a wall will get close to one shot, and this makes for a frustrating issue when one plays a melee hero and cannot taunt them away or stun them in fear of proc'ing a leap.  

Ogres, more specifically ogre leaps are almost solely responsible for me failing to complete NM4 maps, and this is only an issue for anyone building towers rather then traps.

The mini Boss that is a skeleton and has a long range slashing melee attack (sorry forgot its name) that also resurrects each round after it has been summoned, needs its slashing attack range reduced, or alternatively towers should have more hp or have longer range.  though this monster is not even close to as over powered as the Ogre Leap attack. This monster is specifically an issue with the apprentice building uber sphere (flameburst towers range is reduced but does more damage).

Building types:

It appears the apprentice Frost bite tower (slow tower) and the synergy from this tower and gear to increase damage taken by monsters only affects towers/traps that are within melee range of the affected monsters. This does not synergize with Apprentice towers at all, and only functions with traps due to this range issue! This just seems broken to me, as one would expect a classes towers to strengthen that class first and foremost, and then further synergize with other classes thereafter.

Booster Aura's damage boost is too low, given that there is a building limit on every map, a Booster Aura should be more valuable then a single dps tower after maybe 3 towers. In other words, 3 towers + a booster Aura should out dps 4 towers, or at least after 2 upgrades. as it stands booster aura is a damage loss, and only provides hp and damage reduction too walls.

Uber Spheres:

The squires tower uber sphere is a clear nerf as it makes the tower simply do less damage, have a horrifyingly bad arc of attack and removes vital anti air capability.
The apprentice tower uber sphere, has great dps, but its range make it close to impossible to use and again the lack of anti air makes it worthless on many maps.

To me, when one hears the name "uber sphere" one thinks of a sphere that only has positive effects, something that only makes the hero stronger. This is a great game design and can be countered by making content harder, rather then making frustrating spheres that either you buy and regret (the squire building sphere) or you hardly ever use (apprentice sphere).

Map difficulty and reward:

Incursion though clearly far harder then standard endgame rewards almost nothing extra. either incursion should be the real end game, that being; rewarding much better loot or alternatively it should have a niche. More gold, more loot (not necessary better loot), simply something to make it worth while when gearing. As it stands its pointless until you over gear the content, at which point all loot it rewards is bad.

The gear that one can win from a ipwr 1000 map only has a chance of being ipwr 700, while I can guarantee legendary loot of this quality at the Carnival wheel.

The carnival loot wheel:

Unfortunately I have found the path of least resistance for the best possible gear.

This involves: making a set of gold find gear, buying the two gold find spheres, then running maps on free play on hard difficulty and simply slashing through them, even this has become one map on repeat.
With this gold, I then go to the Carnival wheel. 
one equips ones highest ipwr gear regardless of how bad that gear is. and starts gambling. with each item won, one equips the new item, to further boost ones ipwr level, until one caps out at 700 ipwr. now one can gamble only for loot with desirable stats.

In short, the carnival wheel should either have the gold portion removed, sell lower ipwr gear then ipwr 1000 maps or it should be removed entirely.

I hope this feedback was readable, and not too long winded or simply out of touch. 

Thanks for reading :)


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I'm going to save you alot of trouble and just tell you there is no end game to keep the hardcorce player interested.

Now I'm also going to save myself the trouble of typing it out and just copy from my thread what real end game is. 

Well done in soloing NM 4 with out using the meta to progress though.

DD2 currently doesn't deliver on any of this and this is part of  the reason people aren't sticking around.

End game isn't just about grinding for the best loot either. It's about constantly being challenged in how you approach things and having a variety of things to do. For example in DD1 I could farm coal for Diamonds, play KG survival NMHCMM for a chance at the rarest of the rare Ult++ gear. 

If I grew tired of that I could farm for a specific pet or weapon on a map, if I wasn't in the mood for that I could always play some challenges. 

If I hated myself I could play Sky of love or farm for some Crystaline weapons and gain exclusive adult skins. Which I did both.

 If I wanted a more social experience I would visit people's player shops and make some new friends. Who if they ever needed help could help them out and share my strategies for different maps. Otherwise I have met people I can trade with in the future. You never know what you would find, I spent a ton of time just browsing people's taverns.

Speaking of which acheivements actually meant something as well, they could be displayed through trophies and unique unlocks. So you had that for the achievment hunters.

The list goes on and on.

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Incursion is 4 man player difficulty no matter what.

You could run a more effectIve set up, I dont think you realized that you run a defensive setup on the hardest difficulty.

Poison dart tower huntress with 3% trip wire (so you can build traps too) and the hp increase for PDT, 230k hp on my solo account, they also shrek bosses.

Frost tower apprentice, he will buff your traps so much, I personally do nm4 with 1k  dps traps on my solo account.

Monk for Serenity aura, so you have the aoe dmg to ignore physical resist lanes.

Dps huntress, just get sticky nades to counter bombers and burst bow to kill bosses, combine this with poisonous tips for a easy game, you can also build less in a non resist lane if you want the full benefit of poisonous tips (earth dmg pet)

This works really well for me :)

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There is a projectile passive which will work with Cannonball, Heavy Cannonball, Ballista, Flameburst and Flamethrower to give you more range to keep them safe.

You also can remove the uber to place normal towers so ot is possible to set Cannonball and Heavy Cannonball (Flameburst and Flamethrower same deal) from onbuilder. This allows you to not lose the air while having AE plus better boss dmg from single target Cannonball/Flameburst.

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It appears the apprentice Frost bite tower (slow tower) and the synergy from this tower and gear to increase damage taken by monsters only affects towers/traps that are within melee range of the affected monsters. This does not synergize with Apprentice towers at all, and only functions with traps due to this range issue! This just seems broken to me, as one would expect a classes... 

When I was trying to understand how frosty power worked as a new player I tried everything to get the numbers to show up (In the tavern, I wasn't getting anything naturally) But I had thoughts in my head like "It it based on proximity to the frost tower? Does the frost beam have to pass through the tower like an EV boost beam? It is for towers targeting the chilled enemy in general?" Eventually we figure out that its best application is auras traps, and the occasional risky flamethrower tower, a rarity. But any of those other methods on the use of how Frosty Power is applied to nearby defenses would be interesting. They wouldn't effect traps/auras as heavily, but they would be able to effect all towers if the buff was based on other defenses targeting the same chilled enemy, or using the physical beam coming from the tower to apply the buff on defenses it passes through.

I'm mixed on the Ogre thing. That jump is the sole reason towers are built far enough back from walls that they wont take the hit. It's the reason why I tiptoe up to walls that an ogre's beating on to try and repair without baiting the jump out of him. But a high elevation will keep towers safe. There may not be as many favorable tower spots as their are trap/aura spots - We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the strategy revamp, and this particular tower/enemy relationship you've brought up. I know I for one can't wait to be done with pointless time wasting map rerolls to get a favorable resistance setup. Same for the uber spheres. We're all praying for a rework to Heavy Cannons, and LSA's. 

Map rewards might need looking at, maybe - but its unfair to compare it to the gamebreaking wheel - it wont be back for a year and both things will probably be reworked at some point before we see it again.

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