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braydon

Moonbase needs a difficulty increase

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This map seems intimidating at first but once you learn it it's way to easy for what it rewards. I can do it solo NM HC, no summoner, mostly mythical armor. I've been building only on the middle core, as it seems the easiest to defend, and using a boost monk, as I can fit all my towers in the boost.

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If it's hard to tell, that's two harpoons on each side with buff beams, ensnare, lightning, and strength drain auras, a landmine on each side, a gas trap on the lower side, and a 1 DU reflect beam. Most the builder stats were under 2,000.
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The DPS monk was even worse...
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Basically the reasons I can do this, are that I only have to defend one core, and that the enemies coming from broken cores aren't strong enough punishment. To make this hard enough I honestly think goblin copters and wyverns should spawn out of the broken cores, without flyers it's just to easy to agro and block enemies.

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Given that only 1/4 of the class rewards are considered a "top tier" weapon, I don't personally think so. Lab Assault is an easier map with roughly the same rewards that takes 1/3 the time and has proved to be far more problematic, yet it still has not been changed, so i don't see a reason to change Moonbase.


Furthermore, Moonbase as a map is a good bridge between finishing the Nightmare campaign and the Shards maps. If you're having too much trouble with the Shards bosses, you can hop over to Moonbase to bridge the gap.

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Lab is way harder, and has no class specific gear. This is easier with one of the best guns in the game, and the monk wep is actually not bad at all. It's definitely easier than shard maps as you said, but the reward is much better.

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If you get yourself a BF Drill (Insane Volcanic Eruption) and have 90% generic resistance with... basically any amount of HP, you can run the map as much as you want. Like many other things in this game, it's just a matter of knowing how to run the map.

About the rewards-

  • Hyper Rifle is bad. It has roughly the same damage output as an Eternian Energy Cannon while having less than half the ability 2 damage on huntress/ranger.
  • Quietus is ok. It's a stand in until you can get the top tier weapons. (Sparus, Eternian Spear, Monk Wrench; all of which do more damage)
  • The Fusion Rift is the only top tier weapon from Moonbase, as it is a straight upgrade over Classic's Eagle Crested Standard.
  • Dynast is just bad.



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braydon180 True a single crystal build is pretty easy. If you need a higher difficulty try defending ALL of them successfully!

All though NOT impossible this will give you a LOT more challenge there you have it a difficulty increase.

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@Caimen0 quote:

If you get yourself a BF Drill (Insane Volcanic Eruption) and have 90% generic resistance with... basically any amount of HP, you can run the map as much as you want. Like many other things in this game, it's just a matter of knowing how to run the map.

About the rewards-

  • Hyper Rifle is bad. It has roughly the same damage output as an Eternian Energy Cannon while having less than half the ability 2 damage on huntress/ranger.
  • Quietus is ok. It's a stand in until you can get the top tier weapons. (Sparus, Eternian Spear, Monk Wrench; all of which do more damage)
  • The Fusion Rift is the only top tier weapon from Moonbase, as it is a straight upgrade over Classic's Eagle Crested Standard.
  • Dynast is just bad.



Eternian energy cannon requires NM crystalline for a good one though, this is easier than most the shards maps on NM, and Hyper rifle is better than any weapon you'll get from those four... Honestly one top tier from something so easy is too much.

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Getting the best armor in the game, good ult++ pets, and the best accessories in the game is too much from one map.

This one map can be completed in less than 3 minutes.

This one map can be completed with level 60 armor and a BF Drill.

This one map has been around, unchanged, for nearly 3 years.

This map can hold 6 players in order to maximize loot potential, and via shop abuse, can sometimes hold up to 8.


This one map is Lab Assault.

Lab Assault has not, and will not be nerfed. Moonbase is not nearly as egregious in its rewards, therefore it will not be nerfed.


Also, Krytykal Stryke is roughly equal to Hyper Rifle in damage and has far better ability 2 damage. So your statement about the Shards maps is untrue.


Furthermore, saying that a map of this difficulty shouldn't have even one top tier weapon is rather arbitrary and very subjective to your own opinion. In the greater context of DD, would you rather farm Moraggo Survival for bloodshots (which requires beating a very annoying boss to unlock), Classic's Eagle Crested Standard (Which requires beating Sky City AND Boss Rush), or Moonbase (no boss at all) in order to farm a decent apprentice weapon? (Oh, did I mention Akatiti Jungle, with the second most punishing boss battle in the game, where the ogres can overrun your defenses in seconds if you're not prepared?)


It's pretty obvious that new players needed a map to be able to farm to get usable DPS weapons so that they don't have to smash their face against something like the Sky City boss Dark Souls style until they can FINALLY get knocked off the stage by Kraken on Boss Rush, then get a bunch of 5 upgrade Classics.


Moonbase is a map new players needed.

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Gotta love the logic, it's not as bad as lab assault, so it's good. I'm sorry but how does it make it balanced at all just because it's not free ult armor with a bf drill?

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You didn't read the next 2 paragraphs, did you?

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@Caimen0 quote:

You didn't read the next 2 paragraphs, did you?

I did, and I didn't agree. You know I don't have to hang on to your every word and respond.

And I would rather the top staff be from crystaline.

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I know you don't have to respond to everything. But when you reject my entire argument [apparently] based solely on my first paragraph you cannot act like you can ignore my assertion simply because my first argument is "bad" (Which it isn't, by the way).


You can "rather" yourself away to nothing, that doesn't mean it will ever happen. I'd love for Eternian Staff to be anywhere near usable. But that isn't the case. Everything I see here is based solely on the basis of "I don't like it" - completely ignoring the context into which you want to insert or change these maps and items.

Furthermore, your initial arguments simply weren't based in fact.


Hyper Rifle: 212 damage per upgrade, 2 projectiles, 6 attack rate

Blaster Rifle: 307 damage per upgrade, infinitely pierces, 12 attack rate

The Blaster Rifle's damage output puts this thing to shame. Not only that, but the ability 2 damage on the Hyper Rifle, due to the 212/^, is trash.


Quietus: 302 damage per upgrade, moderate attack rate

Eternian Spear: 413.4 damage per upgrade, slow attack rate

Spear just trashes this thing. You need 100 extra upgrades and ++ stats to match damage of a spear that had bad stats


Fusion Rift: 297 damage per upgrade

Classic's Eagle Crested Standard: 147.875 damage per upgrade

Only top tier weapon from Moonbase. Considering it has a poor projectile spread and hero stats compared to Bloodshot staff, it's not that large of an upgrade considering it loses ~60% of its damage to hidden multipliers.


I'm not even going to talk about the Dynast because I shouldn't have to.


The weapons from Moonbase aren't that great. Yeah, they definitely work. Yeah, it's an easy map. But considering the walls you need to go through to get other top tier weapons, (Sky City boss, Old One, Golden Goblin Mech, Boss Rush) it was a needed map for beginners to endgame Nightmare to bridge the gap. These weapons are (for the most part) a stand in. And that is why Moonbase isn't going to be nerfed.


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He is right though. Just because Lab is still the best map doesn't mean other maps are not too easy for certain rewards. Anyone remembers the time of Perfect Kobolds? Anyone remembers how much time it took to get good ones? What's the case now? Play once Moonbase and get almost guaranteed a tower pet with 500ish stats across the board.


Also just because the weapons are not out-damaging previous weapons doesn't mean they are bad. Elitist thinking if you say they are bad. They might don't out-damage all weapons but they all are pretty well, even after they have been nerfed from Open. The only thing I would consider balanced on that map is the ToT due to its rarity of being better than the fish... at least mine seems to spawn very often with tower damage between 80 and 300.


Please don't view everything throughout your high-end glasses. That's exactly the reasoning why we do have trouble so often. There is more than just you with your high-end. The game is for all groups of players, from beginners to vets. It isn't great for beginners if vets are just thinking about themselves. This only leads to op stuff which allows beginners to skip a huge part of the game... and since it was so easy before they expect the game to be easy at the "end", without actually knowing several building strategies and actual weaknesses of opponents. Result of this since the game seems to be unbeatable? Hacking and/or requesting boosts, increased drop chances and so on.


I know you won't agree on that :)

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@EagleOne quote:
I know you won't agree on that :)

This literally adds nothing useful to the conversation. Why bother?

I was going to reply, then I saw that little bit at the end. Not going to waste my time.

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Your posts above are pretty much the opposite of mine and due to the discussions we both had in the past, the outcome was pretty much obvious to me. I'm sorry if you felt offended by it. However, I've just added a different view to your statements since it reads that the rewards are basically crap ("a stand in"). If I would start again from the scratch, rewards from Moonbase are clearly the way to go in order to beat the game. After that and if you're still caught by the game, you will have enough time to hunt even better weapons.

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I wasn't offended by your main paragraph. I'm fine with talking about my opinions of the weapons and their strength relative to other map difficulty to reward ratios.

What I am offended by is that last little statement there at the end. It puts across the perception that you're intentionally trying to bait me into writing more walls of text explaining my points when I shouldn't have to.

I'm all for conversation, but if I think you're trolling me or simply being contrary for the sake of not agreeing with me I'm not going to bother responding.

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LOL, so I search the forums to just disagree to your opinion? Please turn off your tinfoil hat. Such a statement by you is actual trolling but whatever. No reason to be pissed, we just have two different views.


To clarify, I like to think out of the box instead of just thinking about myself and the highest top-tier/high-end. That's what happens here and in so much other discussions. It wouldn't be the case if the actual stat distribution wouldn't get out-of-control (even more than it was). Proof? Just like the increased drop chances with recent RNG changes, never have seen so many U++ auctions the past few months. Such a change is good for the guys who are at high-end, already able to overrun opponents even with unupgraded defenses while not even using the full du/mu pool but bad for beginners and advanced players which will be boosted even more. If a build doesn't work IT MUST BE caused by "low" stats (most of the times they already have 4-5k stats o.O) rather than using some kind of strategy. DD is Tower Defense not Hack'n'Slash... (wait for Hack'n'Slash style... why does anyone have to play on a games hardest difficulty?) I'm already concerned about upcoming updates as anyone is able to mention easily. More variety? Hell yes, but not with drop-rates like Moonbase and Bay... how many runs did it take to get an usable Pawn Shot/Steam Saw/Monk's Wrench/Katalyst Stryker/E.Weapons/O.Weapons?


Nuff said.

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