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MushroomCake28

Community's opinion on the Hero Deck tracking

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@Sogron quote:

Hero deck should be a game mode, not enforced on normal play.

You can only bring X characters but you get 2 chests at end or whatever.


*Edit: and even then it should be balanced between solo and 4 player coop, not the same slots for both.

This would be a lot of trouble implementing in the game. I kinda like the idea, but highly doubt it will ever happen.

would it?  hero deck is already in the game - and we're under the assumption that removing it isn't that big a deal

so.. just have a game mode in the war table for hero deck enabled play and the rest would be without it 

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And in a few months, you will find yourself asking for another slot to accommodate another idea. Increasing the size of the deck is, at best, a temporary fix. If I remember correctly, TE even said as much when they increased it from 3 to 4.

@[TG] Zhenny quote:

Keep Deck, But Up The Limit. I have a personal build I love, but it needs a waller to work properly in group modes. I worked my ass off on that build and I'm NOT changing the chars for guys wanting specific things. I have a DPS, lol, that's all you get. UP THE LIMIT!


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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@thegreekman2 quote:

Remove it.

Please

Or keep it and let us bring 4 classes, regardless of the number of heroes. Especially with the way you have to gear for certain builds.

I'll count you in the removal team.


@MushroomCake28 quote:

*** Updated the list. Those who are for more unique ideas, for example having only one hero and more customization with towers, will not be counted. If a lot a of people begin to appear and defend some other positions then I'll add it (example: 3 heros limitations). 

 It doesn't look like you're trying to determine whet people want, more like you're trying to prove that everyone  agrees with you. Which you won't, mostly only people with a strong opinion on the hero deck (those who want it removed for the greater part) will post in this thread. The thousands of people in the silent majority will stay silent.

To really have the opinion of the community, we would have to have an influence vote or something.

The hero deck makes you chose which heroes to use. Having to chose is called strategy. It's a good thing, even if sometimes it's difficult. The only case when making the player chose is a bad thing is when the game is too hard already, which isn't the case. So what? The DU limit is also artificial and makes many builds impossible. Should it be removed too?

But really, there are other issues with the game right now, so I don't care much. You can count me in the removal team if it fits your purpose.

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@Ryzours quote:

The DU limit is also artificial and makes many builds impossible. Should it be removed too? 

yes

I yearn for my 10000 blaze balloon build to become a reality

lol

What possible builds are made impossible with DU I wonder... 



Some limitations are good, some are bad - we can probably agree here.  ALL limitation can be warped into some weird "oh it provides more strategy"

Limiting build space by 100x what it is now would increase strategy.  Choosing only 1 defense from each hero would increase strategy.  Choosing only 1 type of hero to put into hero deck would increase strategy.  Changing lane resistances mid game would increase strategy.  Etc, etc

It's the dev's job to be able to appropriately decide between what mechanic increases strategy in a fun way vs an annoying way.

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@Ryzours quote:

 It doesn't look like you're trying to determine whet people want, more like you're trying to prove that everyone  agrees with you. Which you won't, mostly only people with a strong opinion on the hero deck (those who want it removed for the greater part) will post in this thread. The thousands of people in the silent majority will stay silent.

To really have the opinion of the community, we would have to have an influence vote or something.

No, this thread isn't to see who agrees with me or not. Proof, I've included people who want to keep it. The fault isn't to me or others that want it removed, it is to those who don't pronounce themselves. A politician can't say "I would have win if everyone would have voted." It's just too bad for those who don't vote. 

As for getting the community's opinion, I've already mentioned it. You can't get all the particular opinions, there are too many. You suggested to do an influence vote; there will not be one option to vote per idea, it will be general options such as "Remove HD", "Keep it", "Keep it and increase limitation". 


@Ryzours quote:

The hero deck makes you chose which heroes to use. Having to chose is called strategy. It's a good thing, even if sometimes it's difficult. The only case when making the player chose is a bad thing is when the game is too hard already, which isn't the case. So what? The DU limit is also artificial and makes many builds impossible. Should it be removed too? 

Geez, please think a bit. A forced meta is a strategy for you? 

And maths maybe???? More builders = more defenses option = more choices = more strategy? (You said yourself that choosing is strategy)

And what's with the DU statement? Did you read the pro HD removal people's arguments? The only limiting factor should be DU, not heros. 


@Ryzours quote:

But really, there are other issues with the game right now, so I don't care much. You can count me in the removal team if it fits your purpose.

Like I said, this isn't for my personal pleasure. There are a lot more people wanting a removal than people wanting to keep it to 4 heros. It's a fact. That's why I made this thread, to see how the HD is viewed in the community.

Why would I count you if you're just making fun of people? Keep personal attacks for yourself please.

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You really are clueless.

The HeroDeck's removal was on an influence vote and it was the highest voted thing to change, yet for 2 years Trendy ignored it and to this day they still are ignoring it. It's not the silent majority that want it gone. There so called solution is laughable, "oh we will keep the limitation on you guys, but you can have exp and gold bonus's for your troubles".

 You know where you can stick those bonus's?

The real reason Trendy are so adamant in keeping the HD is so that they can milk you for as many gems as they can to mix and match with other people's deck. So you best be buying those Hero slots if you want to have something different to your friend. The HD is responsible for pay for power.

I love shutting down the 4 slots gives you a choice of which characters to bring argument, which btw is the exact reason Trendy say they want to keep it. If you call a mandatory waller and dps with only 2 tower characters strategy. I call that making this game casual.

@Ryzours quote:

It doesn't look like you're trying to determine whet people want, more like you're trying to prove that everyone agrees with you. Which you won't, mostly only people with a strong opinion on the hero deck (those who want it removed for the greater part) will post in this thread. The thousands of people in the silent majority will stay silent.

To really have the opinion of the community, we would have to have an influence vote or something.The hero deck makes you chose which heroes to use. Having to chose is called strategy. It's a good thing, even if sometimes it's difficult. The only case when making the player chose is a bad thing is when the game is too hard already, which isn't the case. So what? The DU limit is also artificial and makes many builds impossible. Should it be removed too? But really, there are other issues with the game right now, so I don't care much. You can count me in the removal team if it fits your purpose.

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@pmgesteves quote:

82 Replies

1,504 Thread views


0 Official replies Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm :)

what do you want them to say?  

Here: 

Thanks for the feedback everyone!  Our entire team is working hard on hero deck changes, stay tuned for more! 


can go ahead and pretend like we had an 'official reply'.  As if one would be of any consequence here

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I voted because I see the deck as a good thing, but could use an extra slot or two. Mush, your argument about the deck being a p2w thing is bogus. I have a build that I made personally. I have only the four slots. I can solo with the build and if I wanna group I run with a friend and he replaces my walls and adds purge and it still wrecks. The only reason people seem to have an issue with the deck is because most build for mines and if they build no dps, if they have dps then one of the build parts is gone. You guys kinda made the whole mine meta thing and use it constantly and now you complain. How about spending time to figure out different working builds. Even with the deck gone the game's going to be a pissing contest in group games for who has the better stuff just as it is now. I have my build. Know what I bring to NM4 groups? DPS. That's it. You guys just seem to hate being limited but limit makes you think and forces you to revamp and perfect strategy.

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@[TG] Zhenny quote:

I voted because I see the deck as a good thing, but could use an extra slot or two. Mush, your argument about the deck being a p2w thing is bogus. I have a build that I made personally. I have only the four slots. I can solo with the build and if I wanna group I run with a friend and he replaces my walls and adds purge and it still wrecks. The only reason people seem to have an issue with the deck is because most build for mines and if they build no dps, if they have dps then one of the build parts is gone. You guys kinda made the whole mine meta thing and use it constantly and now you complain. How about spending time to figure out different working builds. Even with the deck gone the game's going to be a pissing contest in group games for who has the better stuff just as it is now. I have my build. Know what I bring to NM4 groups? DPS. That's it. You guys just seem to hate being limited but limit makes you think and forces you to revamp and perfect strategy.

tl;dr - Limiting your choices makes you think

...

...

hmm

would you think more if you had more choices?


the world may never know :^)

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@MushroomCake28 quote:

Why would I count you if you're just making fun of people? Keep personal attacks for yourself please.

I will. I apologise for the tone of my previous post.

And what's with the DU statement? Did you read the pro HD removal people's arguments? The only limiting factor should be DU, not heros. 


I don't see why only DU and not heroes should be a limiting factor, but it's hard to argue on this topic. Really a matter of opinion.



@KnowsNoLimits quote:

You really are clueless.

Not completely.  I missed the first influence vote on this topic, but my points still stand, even if none of them is convincing enough for you.  Having a hero deck makes perfect sense if you want to encourage coop. The "no hero change during survival" thingie in early DDE also made perfect sense from this point of view. It made solo survival quite impossible, so I understand why it was changed. But the hero deck doesn't make anything impossible (except if there's a map where you actually need five different characters and I'm clueless again) . So, why remove it? If everyone has all the characters all the time, everyone will end up playing the same way eventually.

( as to complaining that trendy wants to make money, well, that's why I hate free to play games. When you pay for your game, you don't have to worry about this kind of thing (except sometimes). But that's another topic)


@Pachipachio quote:

tl;dr - Limiting your choices makes you think

would you think more if you had more choices?

the world may never know :^)

You have to think more if the choice has to be made before starting the map.

Having only one hero in the deck would make the players think even more, maybe to the point where the thinking remove the fun of the game. It's a matter of balance, I think the removal of the hero deck would be a step in the wrong direction. But so small a step that I shouldn't have spent so much time in that thread.

Sorry again for the tone of my first post in case it offended someone.

See you in game soon.




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It seems that some of you "hero deck bashers" are doing more time on these forums then in actual game. Move on.... next subject pls. Playfulness is state of mind monk_small.png Look what  Naxtilian  can do with same hero deck. Or  Puraleche. Great defenders squire_small.png

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@MamaTata quote:

It seems that some of you "hero deck bashers" are doing more time on these forums then in actual game. Move on.... next subject pls. Playfulness is state of mind monk_small.png Look what  Naxtilian  can do with same hero deck. Or  Puraleche. Great defenders squire_small.png

off course it's possible, but not for most players, since the majority has a job and dont live in Etheria 24/7.

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@Ryzours quote:

You have to think more if the choice has to be made before starting the map.

Having only one hero in the deck would make the players think even more, maybe to the point where the thinking remove the fun of the game. It's a matter of balance, I think the removal of the hero deck would be a step in the wrong direction. But so small a step that I shouldn't have spent so much time in that thread.

You have to think more if the choice has to be made before starting the map?  You mean like before hitting G or before clicking on the war table?  And what's the difference...?


And one hero would make us think even more?  Uhhhhh, what.  If things were balanced for that it'd be the least thinking intensive of all the options.  Unless we just go with only being able to use one tower.  Or only being able to place one tower



I can't believe this is up for contention.  You pick your 4 heroes (3 builders) and you smash down the same layout irrespective of the map in each of the lanes.  Almost 0 thinking is required once you enter a map

I guarantee you'd have more trouble building the best layout for a map if you had 12 characters vs 4.  Figuring out the best combination between 4 choices is categorically easier than the best combination with 12 choices, even if we consider those 4 choices had to be chosen out of a pool of 12.  It's literally shaving down the # of possibilities.  

This ought to be as simple as how many different choices are and the one with the most choices is the most intellectually demanding 

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@Woqini quote:


@MamaTata quote:

It seems that some of you "hero deck bashers" are doing more time on these forums then in actual game. Move on.... next subject pls. Playfulness is state of mind monk_small.png Look what  Naxtilian  can do with same hero deck. Or  Puraleche. Great defenders squire_small.png

off course it's possible, but not for most players, since the majority has a job and dont live in Etheria 24/7.

Exactly, I just did an 8 hour boxing course the other day to gain CEC points to stay registered as a Personal Trainer and I train 4 days a week. My time is limited atm and I rather spend my time playing something fun. Which isn't this game .

I rather debate about how to improve the game rather than accept a half assed product. It's people like me that don't kiss up to Trendy and voice their opinions on why it's such a bad move. When they do a good job I give props to them, but when the game's in trouble and they still ignore key issues that are resposnible for the drop off in players. 

Well it has to be said.

Things that are hurting this game atm.

- Hero Deck forcing a meta that is beyond boring.

- NM4 not being exciting or a challenge, it's equivalent to DD1's Insane + atm.

- Towers being unbalanced

- The grind with leveling pets and armor

All of those have been ignored for an update no one asked for. The time could of been used to improve the foundation of DD2 instead.

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@MamaTata quote:

It seems that some of you "hero deck bashers" are doing more time on these forums then in actual game. Move on.... next subject pls. Playfulness is state of mind monk_small.png Look what  Naxtilian  can do with same hero deck. Or  Puraleche. Great defenders squire_small.png

I don't play anymore, since September to be precise. The hero deck is one of the main reasons. It takes so much of what was great about DD1 to me and crushes it. I do not find this game fun mostly because of it. So yes I have a lot more on the forums than in game hoping it changes sooner rather than later.

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@MamaTata quote:

It seems that some of you "hero deck bashers" are doing more time on these forums then in actual game. Move on.... next subject pls. Playfulness is state of mind monk_small.png Look what  Naxtilian  can do with same hero deck. Or  Puraleche. Great defenders squire_small.png

I soloed the every single map on NM4. Go on youtube for proof. Yet I still dispite the Hero Deck. So this is my opinion after having played through the whole content. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESIy1S9SZhE

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I say remove the hero deck. There are other, better ways to force people to be limited and creative with builds.  One way is with the tower point system that's already in place.  Another would be creative map making where a certain tower type would be more effective, but you'd have to decide on how to deal with another type of enemy (air units for example).

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@CollectorOfBolts quote:

And in a few months, you will find yourself asking for another slot to accommodate another idea. Increasing the size of the deck is, at best, a temporary fix. If I remember correctly, TE even said as much when they increased it from 3 to 4.

@[TG] Zhenny quote:

Keep Deck, But Up The Limit. I have a personal build I love, but it needs a waller to work properly in group modes. I worked my ass off on that build and I'm NOT changing the chars for guys wanting specific things. I have a DPS, lol, that's all you get. UP THE LIMIT!


No, in a few months, I won't be wanting another slot. I created a fine build. I'm proud of it and I'm keeping it. If they bring more heroes in I will simply buy an extra hero slot to test those heroes and if I don't like them, delete them, and if I manage to find one that I like more than the current builders I have I'll find the builder best suited to be replaced. With removing the deck you remove strategy. You basically are given all the heros to max every tower specifically then get to place all those maxed out things. No strategy, just overpowering towers. Boring. And for the ones saying that the deck forces a meta, that's bull***. I see people using mines all the time in NM4, all the time. Personally, I run maps with towers. And recently just ran with a guy in nm4s, not gates, but other maps, with his tower and aura build and wrecked. Stop trying to copy a build and be creative. Experiment and think. The only reason, even new players now, that people do the mine build is because every nm4 runner seems to think it's the absolute only way to run successfully and it's not. Removing the deck would make the game boring with everyone wanting to just op with every tower. The deck provides strategy, whether you deck bashers want to believe it or not. BUT, as someone already said in here hardcore opinion havers won't listen and aren't going to. So last word in on this: Keep Limit, But Raise By One or Two Slots.

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@[TG] Zhenny quote:

With removing the deck you remove strategy. You basically are given all the heros to max every tower specifically then get to place all those maxed out things. No strategy, just overpowering towers. Boring. 

Oh, really?  

What 'strat' do you use?


You pick your 4 heroes... and I presume only 0-2 towers get used by any of those heroes... and then you slam down the same layout in each lane?  Wall in front with towers behind, super duper.

And it doesn't change at all from map to map? 


But being able to put down all the towers... that would be void of strategy, overpowered, and boring.  I seriously can't figure you guys out


Edit: Oh and, whatever build you do use (cannon + monk or cannon + app?) what would you add that would be overpowered, take away strategy, and make it boring?

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@[TG] Zhenny quote:

No, in a few months, I won't be wanting another slot. I created a fine build. I'm proud of it and I'm keeping it. If they bring more heroes in I will simply buy an extra hero slot to test those heroes and if I don't like them, delete them, and if I manage to find one that I like more than the current builders I have I'll find the builder best suited to be replaced. With removing the deck you remove strategy. You basically are given all the heros to max every tower specifically then get to place all those maxed out things. No strategy, just overpowering towers. Boring. And for the ones saying that the deck forces a meta, that's bull***. I see people using mines all the time in NM4, all the time. Personally, I run maps with towers. And recently just ran with a guy in nm4s, not gates, but other maps, with his tower and aura build and wrecked. Stop trying to copy a build and be creative. Experiment and think. The only reason, even new players now, that people do the mine build is because every nm4 runner seems to think it's the absolute only way to run successfully and it's not. Removing the deck would make the game boring with everyone wanting to just op with every tower. The deck provides strategy, whether you deck bashers want to believe it or not. BUT, as someone already said in here hardcore opinion havers won't listen and aren't going to. So last word in on this: Keep Limit, But Raise By One or Two Slots.

We're not saying we can't build. NM4 being too easy and Hero Deck limiting strategy is 2 different issues. 

Many people that are against the Hero Deck and say that it limits strategy are veterans that can complete NM4 solo.

If you can place whatever defenses and complete a NM4 map solo then it isn't strategy. 

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On one hand, hero Deck limits the soloing experience of this game. ON the other hand, the poor matchmaking we have now makes it bad even in coop. I would not mind going for some sort of grinding to improve the slots for Hero Deck, sort of like we have for hero slots, but always keeping a way of getting more slots in hero deck without making the game P2W. Tokens is a possibility other possibilities could be thought. I think if they go in this direction they should also make hero slots accessible with game currency (whatever that is). This is my favourite option. Second best, remove it!

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Remove it ASAP.

Everyone's happy if it's gone. People who want it removed can play the game and have fun and the rest of them can just limit themselves to four heroes as if the hero deck were still in place. Simples. Everyone's a winner.

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