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Fozzie

Time for guns and lasers?

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OK we have generic bows all much of a muchness, none really fun.

Should we have the fun guns from DD1 make their presence in DD2.

Should the monk be allowed to have multiple projectiles like everyone else, should the squires sword lose the heavy light stat that doesn't seem to do much to then have a multi=shot empowered beam?

Should base shots on weapons be allowed to upgrade based on weapon level so you get an extra shot at 10 upgrade, then 20, 30 and finally at 40.

So a perfect bow could have 8 shots per second, and even a "bad" roll cleanser could be upgraded to 5?

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I miss the weapon upgrade options from DD1.

"Should the monk be allowed to ..."

The monks weapons are soooooo boring in DD2. A green blob, that's it - so creative.


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I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The problem in DD1 was that the Huntress disproportionately had the coolest weapons and the most diversity. How would you guys address that in DD2?

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@iamisom quote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The problem in DD1 was that the Huntress disproportionately had the coolest weapons and the most diversity. How would you guys address that in DD2?

One thing that DD1 started doing was giving weapons properties shared by defenses. For example, in DD1 you had the stone's throw spear, which made the monk a mobile bowling ball tower. This could easily carry over into DD2. Here are some ideas:

  • Make the squire's dragon shield from onslaught breathe fire like a flamethrower whenever the squire is blocking with it
  • Give the monk a poison projectile that deals low damage, but compounds poison damage every time it hits the same enemy
  • Give the apprentice a chaos staff that shoots a different elemental damage projectile each time. It has a chance to freeze, stun, ignite, or electrocute.
  • Give the squire a freezing sword where it deals a lot less damage, but it chills with every hit, and if it hits the same enemy enough times, it freezes them.
  • Give the huntress a bow that doesn't damage enemies, but instead heals allies and defenses.

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@iamisom quote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The problem in DD1 was that the Huntress disproportionately had the coolest weapons and the most diversity. How would you guys address that in DD2?

Start by removing the lunge that melee characters have to suffer with every basic attack. Once that's done and melee DPS is viable again, it becomes more simple to approach. Just consider 'blanket patching' when you create new weapons.

For example. 'Guys we have this cool idea for a huntress bow that reduces armor'. Ok, now think of an equally powerful weapon for app, monk, and squire, and patch all 4 ideas in together. Balance accordingly. I think blanket patching is the way to go, as its easy to get lost in how many powerful weapons one class ends up with.

It might also help if you create 'replicas' for some of the weapons. For example above, create an app 'replica' that reduces enemy MR on-hit. This would alleviate needing to use the huntress in higher level gameplay.

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@iamisom quote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The problem in DD1 was that the Huntress disproportionately had the coolest weapons and the most diversity. How would you guys address that in DD2?

I have an idea. 

Emoji_Huntress.png Huntress: guns. add slower firing "rifle" types, pistols and such. Charge up effects vary based on the gun/bow, some do a penetrating line shot, some do massive single target damage, some do aoe, etc.

Emoji_Squire.png Squire: different types of weapons with different attack patterns and combos. Instead of 3 fast swings, a mace might do 2 powerfull swing combos and do AOE damage. dual weilding small daggers attack faster and apply bleed damage but do less overall and are closer range. Mace/ daggers/ 2 handed sword/ clubs

Emoji_Monk.png Monks: add different archtypes of weapons. glaives, spears, poles, staffs, numchucks. Make each interact differently. For a spear, make it slower attack at a longer range, and piece X targets in a line and make it able to be thrown instead of the monks other attack. Make poles have a chance to stun, attack faster. glaives can block attacks and penetrate enemy armor.

Emoji_Apprentice.png Apprentice: add wands and themes staffs. keep the firing patterns randomized, and make more staffs with different themes. A earth staff is designed with twisted tree bark and leaves on it. Electric staff looks electricy. But also add one handed wands that fire differently and can have different effects when they are charged up. Charging a fire wand shoots a fireball dealing AOE damage. Charging an ice wand creates a slowing field of ice. Make all of them look cool and give a "wow! this wand is badass!" effect.


Overall just add diversity and player options when looking for what type of weapon suits them best. Sorry for the wall of text, i just brainstormed some stuff


Edit: I'd like to see a decision for each weapon based on map. When i go to play a certain map or a certain lane, would i rather have a slowing aoe wepon? a heavy single target dps weapon? instead of a "this one bow does everything" why not "i have multiple options"

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Once you have diversity you are sure going to need the button to swap between weapons in round. So monk has two different staves in his slots same for apprentice and huntress. If squire wants two swords he would have to give up the shield block ability and seismic slam as I can't see it working easily for him.

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All the diversity heavily depends on how the new heroes work out. If they use this 4 classes of weapons like in dd1 it would work out just fine with different weapons.  But if every new hero gets a new type of weapon it would be way to much work to add this much diversity to each weapon type

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@iamisom quote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The problem in DD1 was that the Huntress disproportionately had the coolest weapons and the most diversity. How would you guys address that in DD2?

Not entirely true. She had some really unique weapons, but so did the other classes. The likes of the classic star projectile staff for the apprentice, the stone thrower for the monk and the crystaline sword for the squire which threw out projectiles.

Oh man did we have some sweet weapons in DD1.

 Do you guys remember the Sicarius, Crystal Tracker, Blasticus and Pawn shot?

Even event weapons like my treasured Soda's addiction and the t-27 monk scythe that was insanely fast and that's not even mentioning map specific items like steam saw's, queens leg, that worm gun from moraggo that looked like it had ice cream on it.

Well congratulations I have made my self sad now.

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@iamisom quote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The problem in DD1 was that the Huntress disproportionately had the coolest weapons and the most diversity. How would you guys address that in DD2?

More "real diversity" would be nice, and not just different values for projectile count and speed.
Some are allready ingame, but only on "unique" items, like the arcing grenades on betsy´s apprentice staff


Huntress: Basically what we had in DD1, with different "effects" based on the type of weapon.
Grenades: Arc-Projectile with Area effect
Charged: Grenade drops smaller Clusters in flight
Shotgun: Short range with high projectile count
Charged: Massive Knockback, even against the "big guys"
Rifle: Hitscan projectile
Charged: Fires one extremely fast salvo for increased dps
Crossbow: Slower RoF that Punctures
Charged: Fires an Explosive Bolt
(Bow): Faster than a Crossbow but cant puncture, can have more than one projectile.
Charged: Fires a puncture-bolt

The Apprentice for example could use similar things, just more elemental and magic themed.
Area Effect: Slow moving projectile that detonates on impact, like a lightningstrike, or a fire/frost nova
Charged: Hits the point of impact several times
Beams: Apply elemental effects over time that increases the longer you "focus" it. Stuff like Burn (increases damage), Freeze (slows down until freeze), Chain Lightning (chain to more and more enemies)
Charged: One straight beam that punctures through enemies and applies its status
Cones: Damaging cone in front of you, kinda like a widespread beam, but its damage and status is reduced
Charged: summons a short damaging "aura" around you
Wave: Instead of shooting a projectile, it shoots a wave that penetrates through enemies.
Charged: Wave spreads out the further it travels
(Projectile): Fires one or more projectiles
Charged: Fires one strong projectile

For the Squire there could be different Shields, his swords would just use different combos like it is now.
Mirror Shield: reflect projectiles back to the enemy, but you cant block melee anymore.
Tower Shield:  turn into an imovable wall yourself, after a while the shield "breaks" so that you have to take a break to regenerate it (over time or with the heal ability)
Absorbtion Shield: absorb incoming damage to enhance your melee strikes
Energy Shield: Create a bubble around you to protect nearby things too

The Monk is tricky since he is a hybrid...
Dualblade sword: attacks in front and behind you.
Secondary: Use the "force" to knock away enemies (i just had to do it)
Spear: Hits straight forward but hits several enemies in a row.
Secondary: Energy Lance that punctures through enemies
Chakram: Shorter range but higher attack speed
Secondary: Throws the chakram to bounce between enemies
Blade Whip: Very Long range in front of you
Secondary: Grab an enemie to throw and pull him towards you, so that you can finish him at close range...or throw him into a pit
(Staff): Attack in front of you
Secondary: Fire one or more bolts of energy





oh...can we have the Portalgun back? but for all of our heroes?^^

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  There are a ton of workable ideas here already, I don't understand why the huntress was the only one to get a lot of unique weapons in the first place.

  I guess it was difficult to do things for the mage, as his left click charged. That mechanic wouldn't have worked with things like flamethrowers. As for the others, I'm not really sure why they didn't. I mean the monk could easily have different ranged attacks, there's no reason they couldn't have been aoe, or rapid fire single shots, or anything like that.


  Anyway in DD2 I think I'd like to see flame staffs for one, that worked like the huntress's old flamethrowers, with the charge shots being a fireball that explodes in an aoe, so he can still fight at long range. Also maybe a lightning staff that arcs between a ton of enemies for low damage over a huge area. Charged could be a more focused lightning bolt, piercing or hitting one target.

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@braydon180 quote:

  There are a ton of workable ideas here already, I don't understand why the huntress was the only one to get a lot of unique weapons in the first place.

  I guess it was difficult to do things for the mage, as his left click charged. That mechanic wouldn't have worked with things like flamethrowers. As for the others, I'm not really sure why they didn't. I mean the monk could easily have different ranged attacks, there's no reason they couldn't have been aoe, or rapid fire single shots, or anything like that.

look at the huntress animation for every weapon, there are the same. its easier to change the weapon. maybe its the same for the mage.


but for the squire its a whole new animation for a new weapon. and i think thats why the huntress had more different weapons, it was easier.


thats the problem with huntress/evrey one else

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@Nelly quote:

look at the huntress animation for every weapon, there are the same. its easier to change the weapon. maybe its the same for the mage.


but for the squire its a whole new animation for a new weapon. and i think thats why the huntress had more different weapons, it was easier.


thats the problem with huntress/evrey one else

I guess melee is harder. But still 3/4 the characters have ranged attacks. Anyway I think some of the ideas in this thread could be done with minimal to no animation change.

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not 3/4 more like 2/4. (monk with shootin out of his hands dont count)


ofc some ideas could be implemented. but they shouldnt implement it without knowing something for melee.


lets suggest some melee weapon that are diffirent but easy to implement. :) (too bad i have no ***ing idea...)

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@Dreizehn quote:

You mean things like replacing the sword with a big fish, rolling pin, club, ...?

Fish could cause enemies to to walk away on hit because of smells.

Bowling pin could have a sword beam animation that looks like a bowling ball

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[[4370,users]] for all that is holy please get design to remove the step to melee for the new heroes ( I know it's been stated current heroes melee is coded in a way that isn't feasible to remove :()

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