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@RUMOR - Abyss lord PATCH - Will come with new max level = 70

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A level increase wouldn't bother me, and would put everyone at a level playing field.

I could care less if it doesn't care with some major gameplay/tower changes though. I don't want the game to feel like it does right now, only adding more levels to the mix. 

Hard to say much until an official announcement, and seeing a list of proposed changes. Here's to hoping they are good.

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I was actually just discussing this with dream today.

A level cap increase is expected and it would make alot of sense to release it on the first Hero's introduction. Otherwise it would suck to gear up a lvl 50 Abyss Lord only to have to re-gear him again on the next update.

Not only that, but loot has a good chance to be overhauled in rarity and importance. They can make Mythical's relevant again, Legendaries that are actually rare and of importance once again.

Never have I wanted a lvl cap increase so bad, the game needs it for a fresh start.

This is just my personal opinion, but I would like to see passives removed off armor/weapons and given through spheres. That would help immensely with reducing the RNG you need for it to be viable and you can then focus on what's important with the base stats of the piece. You know how it should be.

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Agreed with you [[24592,users]] ... with the introduction of a new hero, it would be great to start the abyss lord at level 50, and then raise the level cap, that way everyone starts on the same even playing field. 

It makes complete sense to raise the cap in the grand scheme of things, and would be better than a full wipe, granted that wouldn't bother me at all either.

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I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

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@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

A fresh start either by wipe, or a slight level increase would start everyone on a level playing field, and would give them a new foundation to balance from, and make significant changes without really throwing a wrench into end game. 

I personally don't see an issue with it, and would prefer it over a wipe in some aspects. Either way, it'll level the playing field, offer a fresh start in a sense. 

Of course this is all hypothetical, as I don't know what plans are, but a level increase isn't going to screw anything up more than it currently is, and it'd actually give me something to do outside of the *** show it is right now.

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@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

Dude I told you a level cap is coming, they said it before in countless dev streams.

Don't act surprised. I even told you don't invest so much time into farming perfect loot because of it. Now don't get salty when it happens and your gear is obsolete.

A level cap like I mentioned before could actually come with a fresh balance change. Perfect time to do it is when everyone is on a level playing field.

What annoys me about DD2 is that raw stats and the most basic setup is all you need to complete every map. That is total BS for a Tower Defense game. Strategy should always trump power and you would be surprised how alot of your builds are actually terrible, but it doesn't matter since you have the stats to carry it.

If you did that in DD1 you would fail, however mythical gear could clear end game content, because you had to learn what worked and what didn't.

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what'll be weird is the progression for a new player... 

1-49 is fair enough

then at 50 you'll need to gear from 240 ipwr content to what, 700 ipwr?

and then 51+ content is smooth progression again?  with another lump sum of ipwrs at 70 for the new NMs? 


it'd be interesting if they spread out the current curve of ipwrs to do some smooth curve 1-69 and then have lv70 have ipwrs from say 500 to 800.. or something


idk, either way I think about this it's a mess because (imo) having a level system that doesn't smoothly correlate to an ipwr system is dumb

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@Pachipachio quote:

what'll be weird is the progression for a new player... 

1-49 is fair enough

then at 50 you'll need to gear from 240 ipwr content to what, 700 ipwr?

and then 51+ content is smooth progression again?  with another lump sum of ipwrs at 70 for the new NMs? 


it'd be interesting if they spread out the current curve of ipwrs to do some smooth curve 1-69 and then have lv70 have ipwrs from say 500 to 800.. or something


idk, either way I think about this it's a mess because (imo) having a level system that doesn't smoothly correlate to an ipwr system is dumb

I do agree with you on that, Pachi.


The entire thing is a mess, along with the amount of different difficulties, and game modes and they really should trim things up. In my opinion, nightmare 1-4 should be gearing.

True end game, where you perfect your gear and strategy should lie within Incursions, and Onslaught. NM4 plain ass maps should not be where the core difficulty lies. It should be a stepping stone on the way to the actual end game. (This is my opinion, of course.)

Similarly to how in diablo 3, you level up and you progress through torment levels as you get more powerful gear, and once you have a decent set of end game gear, you mostly steamroll torment 10, but then you have greater rifts which has an infinite scaling difficulty (where onslaught in this game should be.)

Obviously things can't be the same, and I get that, but at the end of the day something has gotta give. There's way too many modes and difficulties and bells and whistles. Trim it up, streamline things, fix onslaught and incursion, and make those end game maps actually rewarding and fun to play. 

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

Dude I told you a level cap is coming, they said it before in countless dev streams.

Don't act surprised. I even told you don't invest so much time into farming perfect loot because of it. Now don't get salty when it happens and your gear is obsolete.

A level cap like I mentioned before could actually come with a fresh balance change. Perfect time to do it is when everyone is on a level playing field.

What annoys me about DD2 is that raw stats and the most basic setup is all you need to complete every map. That is total BS for a Tower Defense game. Strategy should always trump power and you would be surprised how alot of your builds are actually terrible, but it doesn't matter since you have the stats to carry it.

If you did that in DD1 you would fail, however mythical gear could clear end game content, because you had to learn what worked and what didn't.

Did you not read what I said?  None of what I said has anything to do with me grinding and wasting away my own time.  I said fix balance first before even considering a level or gear increase of any kind.  There's so many people in this thread including yourself who soapbox daily on how imbalanced things are and yet youre all going "yes gimme a level increase"???  That logic hurts my brain!

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@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

Dude I told you a level cap is coming, they said it before in countless dev streams.

Don't act surprised. I even told you don't invest so much time into farming perfect loot because of it. Now don't get salty when it happens and your gear is obsolete.

A level cap like I mentioned before could actually come with a fresh balance change. Perfect time to do it is when everyone is on a level playing field.

What annoys me about DD2 is that raw stats and the most basic setup is all you need to complete every map. That is total BS for a Tower Defense game. Strategy should always trump power and you would be surprised how alot of your builds are actually terrible, but it doesn't matter since you have the stats to carry it.

If you did that in DD1 you would fail, however mythical gear could clear end game content, because you had to learn what worked and what didn't.

Did you not read what I said?  None of what I said has anything to do with me grinding and wasting away my own time.  I said fix balance first before even considering a level or gear increase of any kind.  There's so many people in this thread including yourself who soapbox daily on how imbalanced things are and yet youre all going "yes gimme a level increase"???  That logic hurts my brain!

I read it. You don't want your gear touched because of balancing issues.

Now again read what I said before with a lvl cap increase everyone is on equal footing. Perfect time to balance loot out. A Mythical rarity shouldn't be considered trash gear like it is now and if this game required strategy over power than people who built smart would progress with it.


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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

Dude I told you a level cap is coming, they said it before in countless dev streams.

Don't act surprised. I even told you don't invest so much time into farming perfect loot because of it. Now don't get salty when it happens and your gear is obsolete.

A level cap like I mentioned before could actually come with a fresh balance change. Perfect time to do it is when everyone is on a level playing field.

What annoys me about DD2 is that raw stats and the most basic setup is all you need to complete every map. That is total BS for a Tower Defense game. Strategy should always trump power and you would be surprised how alot of your builds are actually terrible, but it doesn't matter since you have the stats to carry it.

If you did that in DD1 you would fail, however mythical gear could clear end game content, because you had to learn what worked and what didn't.

Did you not read what I said?  None of what I said has anything to do with me grinding and wasting away my own time.  I said fix balance first before even considering a level or gear increase of any kind.  There's so many people in this thread including yourself who soapbox daily on how imbalanced things are and yet youre all going "yes gimme a level increase"???  That logic hurts my brain!

I read it. You don't want your gear touched because of balancing issues.

Now again read what I said before with a lvl cap increase everyone is on equal footing. Perfect time to balance loot out. A Mythical rarity shouldn't be considered trash gear like it is now and if this game required strategy over power than people who built smart would progress with it.


LOL I don't even care about that one bit.  You're assuming.  Every passive change recently has caused us all to refarm.  I accepted that months ago.  Idc if I have to refarm, at least I'm getting stuff I can actually use as more than fusion fodder for once.  I made the point that balance is more important than giving players more points to toss around in their stat window.  Fix what's broken first, then expand from there.

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@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

Dude I told you a level cap is coming, they said it before in countless dev streams.

Don't act surprised. I even told you don't invest so much time into farming perfect loot because of it. Now don't get salty when it happens and your gear is obsolete.

A level cap like I mentioned before could actually come with a fresh balance change. Perfect time to do it is when everyone is on a level playing field.

What annoys me about DD2 is that raw stats and the most basic setup is all you need to complete every map. That is total BS for a Tower Defense game. Strategy should always trump power and you would be surprised how alot of your builds are actually terrible, but it doesn't matter since you have the stats to carry it.

If you did that in DD1 you would fail, however mythical gear could clear end game content, because you had to learn what worked and what didn't.

Did you not read what I said?  None of what I said has anything to do with me grinding and wasting away my own time.  I said fix balance first before even considering a level or gear increase of any kind.  There's so many people in this thread including yourself who soapbox daily on how imbalanced things are and yet youre all going "yes gimme a level increase"???  That logic hurts my brain!

I read it. You don't want your gear touched because of balancing issues.

Now again read what I said before with a lvl cap increase everyone is on equal footing. Perfect time to balance loot out. A Mythical rarity shouldn't be considered trash gear like it is now and if this game required strategy over power than people who built smart would progress with it.


LOL I don't even care about that one bit.  You're assuming.  Every passive change recently has caused us all to refarm.  I accepted that months ago.  Idc if I have to refarm, at least I'm getting stuff I can actually use as more than fusion fodder for once.  I made the point that balance is more important than giving players more points to toss around in their stat window.  Fix what's broken first, then expand from there.

We can agree on that at least. I rather see balance before a new cap.

However re-farming gear isn't really a ton of fun once you just got an Abyss Lord geared up into 50 gear.

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What's nice about the current gear system is that it can scale very well in the long run. In fact, if Trendy wanted to up the ipwr cap by 50 every month, the only thing that would affect is the relative difficulty of NM4. Introducing NM5 would easily fix that.

Now if only NM4 wasn't literally the exact same thing as Insane but with bigger numbers...

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@gigazelle quote:

What's nice about the current gear system is that it can scale very well in the long run. In fact, if Trendy wanted to up the ipwr cap by 50 every month, the only thing that would affect is the relative difficulty of NM4. Introducing NM5 would easily fix that.

Now if only NM4 wasn't literally the exact same thing as Insane but with bigger numbers...

yeah, this sounds a lot better than needing to raise level cap and ipwr


is there literally any benefit to raising the level cap?

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I personally see no benefit of raising the lvl cap, all it'd do imo is prolong the grind to max lvl. 

I'd also like to point out that a raised lvl cap would mean harder content & that content would probably just be nm5, the same as every other difficulty just with higher numbers. and so before a lvl cap increase I feel they need to fix the mess that is nm1-4.

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I'm hoping the level cap increase doesn't happen yet. 

There is simply way too much to fix before that - and with the level increased to 70, we would have to grind 20 more levels on a completely messed up, badly executed progression model.

I'm not even alluding to the cursed hero deck here -there are enough other issues that we kinda got used to and stopped noticing them at all. When you take a break and play some other games, you suddenly realize how bad DD2 really is right now and how much work it needs done.


So - how about a firm -no- on level cap increase? All it would bring us is extending current issues on 20 more goddamn levels and nobody has time for that.

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Pretty sure that even if the balance comes, passive RNG is fixed etc that a lot of us will still cheese harb easy for the XP seeing as nothing in end game comes close to that XP reward for the effort. 

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@topler quote:

I personally see no benefit of raising the lvl cap, all it'd do imo is prolong the grind to max lvl. 

I'd also like to point out that a raised lvl cap would mean harder content & that content would probably just be nm5, the same as every other difficulty just with higher numbers. and so before a lvl cap increase I feel they need to fix the mess that is nm1-4.

Well what about this then. Raising the level cap is an easy way to address some of the complaints with the current game.

1) People don't like NM1-NM4 at endgame because there is content skipping. So what's the point? Well you raise the level cap, in the OP case to 70 and you get rid of the phrases NM1-NM4. You have a single NM at 70. You actually make insane give good XP and hard takes you to 50 and insane takes you to 70 endgame is NM. (Of note this does nothing to fix future level increases as the game structure would have to be revamped yet again but we are talking about right now)

2) This is the more important one. The talk of changing and or removing passives from gear creates a huge obstacle.  You have to get rid of all the old gear if you are going to change it. So you either wipe or in this case create a need to farm new gear and remove the old gear from the game. Over time the gear will phase itself out as long as the current gear is not relevant at endgame. Or right before you change you add a modifier to any gear with passives on it that gives a bonus when used to upgrade gear. That gives incentive to use the gear to increase your new gear.

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@Chappyy quote:


@topler quote:

-snip-

Well what about this then. Raising the level cap is an easy way to address some of the complaints with the current game.

1) People don't like NM1-NM4 at endgame because there is content skipping. So what's the point? Well you raise the level cap, in the OP case to 70 and you get rid of the phrases NM1-NM4. You have a single NM at 70. You actually make insane give good XP and hard takes you to 50 and insane takes you to 70 endgame is NM. (Of note this does nothing to fix future level increases as the game structure would have to be revamped yet again but we are talking about right now)

2) This is the more important one. The talk of changing and or removing passives from gear creates a huge obstacle.  You have to get rid of all the old gear if you are going to change it. So you either wipe or in this case create a need to farm new gear and remove the old gear from the game. Over time the gear will phase itself out as long as the current gear is not relevant at endgame. Or right before you change you add a modifier to any gear with passives on it that gives a bonus when used to upgrade gear. That gives incentive to use the gear to increase your new gear.

Hmm I can see the reasoning & agree with both of your points, so if the devs take advantage of the lvl increase to do things similar to what you said then yes I can see why it'd be good for the game. 

However I doubt Trendy would do either of those things, mainly because it requires quite a bit of work & could cause them to delay the patch, something I don't see them doing. I suppose only time will tell & I hope it proves me wrong.

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I think it would be possible, because giving items 700 ad IWPR logically a higher level. after is that it is a NM5 or something else , only the devs know.

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@Tristaris quote:


@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

A fresh start either by wipe, or a slight level increase would start everyone on a level playing field, and would give them a new foundation to balance from, and make significant changes without really throwing a wrench into end game. 

I personally don't see an issue with it, and would prefer it over a wipe in some aspects. Either way, it'll level the playing field, offer a fresh start in a sense. 

Of course this is all hypothetical, as I don't know what plans are, but a level increase isn't going to screw anything up more than it currently is, and it'd actually give me something to do outside of the *** show it is right now.

I wouldn't mind seeing any type of fresh start myself, especially with new players always looking for someone to play with and help them understand the game mechanics. It would breathe some fresh life into the game with new players and old players playing together to help better understand the game :). AND what better time to do it than when the lane resistances get taken off! Would be something fun. I love starting from square one. gives it more meaning since there was far more variety when you were at level 1 just starting out, able to place turrets everywhere with no real drawback, no real damage resistance to stop you. Made the game very enjoyable for me. Til I THEE hands down most BORING meta any tower defense game has EVER had.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@roboticaust quote:

I believe the proper reply to this is "*** that ***".  Seriously though, everyone in this thread so far constantly complains about balance on these threads yet you want a level increase?  Umm no, just no.  Keep what we have, fix what needs fixing, deal with that silly nonsense later.

Dude I told you a level cap is coming, they said it before in countless dev streams.

Don't act surprised. I even told you don't invest so much time into farming perfect loot because of it. Now don't get salty when it happens and your gear is obsolete.

A level cap like I mentioned before could actually come with a fresh balance change. Perfect time to do it is when everyone is on a level playing field.

What annoys me about DD2 is that raw stats and the most basic setup is all you need to complete every map. That is total BS for a Tower Defense game. Strategy should always trump power and you would be surprised how alot of your builds are actually terrible, but it doesn't matter since you have the stats to carry it.

If you did that in DD1 you would fail, however mythical gear could clear end game content, because you had to learn what worked and what didn't.

Did you not read what I said?  None of what I said has anything to do with me grinding and wasting away my own time.  I said fix balance first before even considering a level or gear increase of any kind.  There's so many people in this thread including yourself who soapbox daily on how imbalanced things are and yet youre all going "yes gimme a level increase"???  That logic hurts my brain!

I read it. You don't want your gear touched because of balancing issues.

Now again read what I said before with a lvl cap increase everyone is on equal footing. Perfect time to balance loot out. A Mythical rarity shouldn't be considered trash gear like it is now and if this game required strategy over power than people who built smart would progress with it.


LOL I don't even care about that one bit.  You're assuming.  Every passive change recently has caused us all to refarm.  I accepted that months ago.  Idc if I have to refarm, at least I'm getting stuff I can actually use as more than fusion fodder for once.  I made the point that balance is more important than giving players more points to toss around in their stat window.  Fix what's broken first, then expand from there.

We can agree on that at least. I rather see balance before a new cap.

However re-farming gear isn't really a ton of fun once you just got an Abyss Lord geared up into 50 gear.

I feel the same way, it seems this game requires no strategy and perfect gear, when people think a measly 500 dmg is enough to shake the map to the point of losing, it's time to reevaluate the game. In my opinion. Tower defense games have never been about having "gear", most tower games you get default towers, which you then place "STRATEGICALLY" without worrying about how strong they are, this game takes the concept of strategy and twists it to the point you can have an overpowered hero and 0 strategy and still win the game. Very dissatisfying.

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@Chappyy quote:


@topler quote:

I personally see no benefit of raising the lvl cap, all it'd do imo is prolong the grind to max lvl. 

I'd also like to point out that a raised lvl cap would mean harder content & that content would probably just be nm5, the same as every other difficulty just with higher numbers. and so before a lvl cap increase I feel they need to fix the mess that is nm1-4.

Well what about this then. Raising the level cap is an easy way to address some of the complaints with the current game.

1) People don't like NM1-NM4 at endgame because there is content skipping. So what's the point? Well you raise the level cap, in the OP case to 70 and you get rid of the phrases NM1-NM4. You have a single NM at 70. You actually make insane give good XP and hard takes you to 50 and insane takes you to 70 endgame is NM. (Of note this does nothing to fix future level increases as the game structure would have to be revamped yet again but we are talking about right now)

2) This is the more important one. The talk of changing and or removing passives from gear creates a huge obstacle.  You have to get rid of all the old gear if you are going to change it. So you either wipe or in this case create a need to farm new gear and remove the old gear from the game. Over time the gear will phase itself out as long as the current gear is not relevant at endgame. Or right before you change you add a modifier to any gear with passives on it that gives a bonus when used to upgrade gear. That gives incentive to use the gear to increase your new gear.

This is absolutely true, but that would take them a lot of work to be able to get you perfectly to level 50 off of one play through, I do like the idea of changing it to only 1 nightmare mode like dd1, and then making the first dive the hardest part to get into, but again, with some variety, proper strategy, and no hero deck constraint I personally don't think it would be a problem at all. Also I think it would bring some fun into the game again, instead of just one build wonders, terribly thought about constraints with the hero deck AND lane resists. They just need to stop tying peoples hands behind their back to play alone. Not all of us like playing with 3 other people. Nor do some of us have people we know who plays the same things as us. It is a poor concept that forces people who love the game to move on. Because frankly I spend more time looking for a person to play with, than actually playing, which in itself is probably the most frustrating time waster I've ever seen. I used to go on DD1 and be able to jump right into a game, no fear of not being able to solo. This game however is another topic all too itself.

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